Problems with current PvP reward system

[Deleted]

PvP reward system saw some improvements in 7.1 but there were a few hidden drawbacks also. Currently you can get 3 pieces of gear based on your ratings every week. Which is a very small amount and RNG can screw you over. Also previously every gear drop from rated content was affected by ratings but now random drops from rated content has a base ilvl of 840 only and not increased by higher rating. They also added base ilvl 830 gear to casual pvp, which doesn't really help but lets compare that to Heroic dungeon. So even if you have ratings over 2k it will be nearly impossible to get full elite set cause of RNG. I have been PvPing nonstop since launch and still haven't gotten a Vindicative helmet while I got around 20 trinkets, tons of necklace and relics. I don't know if there is a bug but I have rarely gotten an armor piece from PvP. Now think about your chances of getting full elite set with just 3 pieces a week and that is if you have over 2k ratings at every bracket.

Look at pve there are different path of progression like doing Mythic plus dungeons or heroic/mythic raids and both rewards ample amount of gear based on your skill and time spent. But in pvp you are not getting much of a choice anymore you have to play all three bracket to progress.

I run arena every night for 4-5 hours but most of my gear is from mythic plus which I ran very rarely like maybe 2 mythic+ every week. That goes to show how under rewarding pvp is even at high ratings. Some people might say pvp isn't about gear and I agree with that but there should be some sort of reward, a feel of achievement. I can think of a few solutions that Blizzard can try to fix the current reward system.

1. Give us a pvp vendor where we can buy the Elite skin for transmog, make it require 2k ratings (not the actual gear just the skin like previously) use currency like mark of honor.
2. Make the random gear drop from rated content based on rating or add some sort of bad luck protection. Right now only use for those random drops is vendor or disenchant.
3. Add conquest points back in game but cap it at something like 1500 and let people buy at least one gear per week, that way we have a bit of control over our gear. Remember in PvE gear can be traded with group members and there are tokens for bad luck protection plus 3 bonus roll chance every week.
4.Let us use bonus roll in PvP.

I tried to be as objective as possible. Please keep this thread constructive.

[dm10169]

If blizzard wants to improve their subscription base and improve morale and happiness of their player base, they need to make the player base happy. It's VERY apparent, that people are currently not happy with the change to RNG PVP rewards, especially when you can receive duplicates, trinkets with on-use stats, weapons...

Why does blizzard continue to be STINGY on gear, they like to make you play the games for months on-end to get a complete gear set that you are happy with, it's bullshit. Since they have it coded to know what spec we are running, make the gear we receive, have the stats for the spec. Stop giving us shit we DON"T WANT. It's the dumbest mindset. I guess they somehow thing is takes away from the game to actually give people the gear they want, at a decent rate.

[Deleted]

Was there a stealth nerf to ilvl from pvp gear reward this week? For 2k ratings its showing only 860 ilvl gear as 10th win reward.

[Deleted]

i got 2 870 pieces today and im 2.2k rated. don't see the issue.

[Snegovik]

Op refers to the blue post that was released with 7.1 by blizzard:
"Here is an example listing of the rating-to-item level breakdown for Season 1:

Last Week's Rating Base Item Level Appearance
0 - 1399 840 Gladiator
1400 - 1599 850 Gladiator
1600 - 1799 860 Gladiator
1800 - 1999 865 Gladiator
2000 - 2199 870 Elite
2200 - 2399 875 Elite
2400+ 880 Elite"

So yes another slap in the face by Blizzard to PvPers

I think it was due to High average rating in arena @ EU servers, which is not that smart since if this nerf went to US severs as well it is a bit unfair since average rating @ US servers are few undred cr lower than on EU unless i am mistake, feel free to correct me though.

[Deleted]

Seems like it was reverted. Rewards once again following the aforementioned chart.

[Snegovik]

Seems like it was reverted. Rewards once again following the aforementioned chart.

nice, thx for update. At work atm so cant check myself.

[Chickat]

I would just bring back conquest points and use it as the old honor. You can buy gear when you either get the right rating, or reach a certain prestige level. Say theres a basic set for conquest, and an epic set for people with 1800 rating, or Prestige 3 for the first season. Something like that would be good imo. Id even say they could keep loot boxes in, but being able to target and work toward a specific item would help. Id also like sets to come back. Doesnt have to be fancy, maybe everyone gets Increases health by 10%, Increases Versatility by 5%, Reduces the cooldown of your gladiators medallion by 30 seconds, When killing someone that rewards experience or honor, you have a 10% chance to gain 30% movement speed, and reset the cooldown if your gladiators medallion for 8 set.

[FelPlague]

I hate this new gear system for pvp. Back before this you could reach 2200 rating in seomthing. Then just sit on that. And farm conquest on the other types. You earned 2200 you buy the mog

Now you need to reach 2000 then next week win 10/3 matches. And hope the price of gear you get is a part of that mog. And then again end that week with 2000 rating... And do this forever... Now the issue is. Rating is very hard to get and keep. An example was I was 1800 wanted to do some matches with freinds

My team
1800
0
0
And the average enemy team I would face was
1600
1600
1600

So you would think that's super unfair. A sorta decent guy. And 2 noobs. Versus 3 sorta decent guys... Yeah it is... And guess what

Win 0rating
Loss -17 rating...

This happened for a hour and half. Till all three of us we're 1400 then I started gaining actual rating back...
Now another issue is once you hit about 1600-1700 you lose more then you win. So you NEED a 50%+ win rate to even go up... And with how stuff is balanced right now... Monks able to zip across the map. And do millions in seconds. Well also being able to redirect damage. And lots of stuns...
Getting the elite mog will be stupid impossible. And the worse part is unlike pve. Where you can easily get it in a later patch. This gear vanishes next season... Guess I can never get the red spider armor...

And I hate it. I really don't like the concept of elite armor and glad mounts. I agree that they are nice rewards to those who achieve. But adding special mounts. And armor sets that will vanish soon. And only a very small portion of the player base will even get close to getting...

PVE hasent had something like this for a long time. Since vanilla
Yes there is the moose and wolf. From ahead of the curve. But those we're extremely easy. Even for a pvper. Where getting glad mounts or elite armor is extremely dificult

I do like that hardcore pvpers have something special to them. But I think in the future there should be ways for people to obtain these old sets/mounts. As it's such a waste. Just like pvpers can do in pve
Next patch. Farm the mythic raid for the tmog/mounts.


He'll in my opinion this would be how I fix it
Reach elite. 2000 in a week get a token for a price of gear. After x weeks you've got your mog
Reach glad. Get a mount token. Get your mount

For other players. They will require reaching prestige. 5.6.7.8.9. Etc to get these tokens. Yes much easier. But the time commitment is HUGE
And to get the mount. Maybe a quest of. Do 250 battlegrounds. And 1000 arenas
Win 50 bgs. And 100 arenas. Banm the amount of time for that will be insane. But it will allow players to get these items and have more people with them. Well still letting those who earned it the hard way. Have it long before. He'll titles are fine in my opinion. So give these people who earn them the hard way titles as titles can't take up days of dev time if not weeks to make. He'll or months I would guess on the sets

But idk. I'm a semi hard core raider. And used to be a semi hardcore pvper. But sorta got out of it as pvp became a cc fest... Pvp just isn't as fun to me when 75% of the time your cc'd I wish it was much less bursty cc. Long fights of actual fighting and not. Cc then burst

[Snegovik]

-snip-

You do not have to remain 2k cr, as long as your highest rating for the previous week was 2k, youll get elite piece (unless RNG will screw you over), so lets say you started at 2020, but you dropped to 1950 after 10 wins, if at any point your CR was between 2k-2020 you will get it next week, you will just make sure to farm it up back to 2k next week.

My biggest issue with current PvP system is how alt unfriendly it is, not only we have to Grind AP, we also have to unlock Honor talents, and now 10 wins per box wtf... like i am sure a lot of ppl like myself have full time jobs, do other stuff outside of office friends, gym, etc. Which leaves no time at all to invest required amount of time to an alt. I love how Blizzard said it would be easier to jump in PvP in legion; while, it never been the farthest away as it is now for an alt to hop in rated pvp. In wod i could get my alt full conquest gear mid season in 2 days, and i will be on par with pvpers who plaid since day one, aka making PvP about skill not about time you invest grinding AP/Talents/Gear to be equal in rated. I honestly strongly believe that majority of Dev pvp team do not do rated pvp

[GT4]

I hate this new gear system for pvp. Back before this you could reach 2200 rating in seomthing. Then just sit on that. And farm conquest on the other types. You earned 2200 you buy the mog

Now you need to reach 2000 then next week win 10/3 matches. And hope the price of gear you get is a part of that mog. And then again end that week with 2000 rating... And do this forever... Now the issue is. Rating is very hard to get and keep. An example was I was 1800 wanted to do some matches with freinds

[...]

So basically you want the rated PvP rewards without doing rated PvP more than once?
That's like complaining that you have to clear a raid more than once to get all the loot.

Leaving that aside, talking about rewards you get at 2k and "hardcore" at the same time is pretty nonsensical.

[rda]

My biggest issue with current PvP system is how alt unfriendly it is, not only we have to Grind AP, we also have to unlock Honor talents, and now 10 wins per box wtf... like i am sure a lot of ppl like myself have full time jobs, do other stuff outside of office friends, gym, etc. Which leaves no time at all to invest required amount of time to an alt. I love how Blizzard said it would be easier to jump in PvP in legion; while, it never been the farthest away as it is now for an alt to hop in rated pvp. In wod i could get my alt full conquest gear mid season in 2 days, and i will be on par with pvpers who plaid since day one, aka making PvP about skill not about time you invest grinding AP/Talents/Gear to be equal in rated. I honestly strongly believe that majority of Dev pvp team do not do rated pvp

I agree 100%, that's my #1 gripe.

It is really simple. No matter how hard they try (or don't), the balance is, shall we say, not very good. Patches move it from one extreme to the next. Disregard the power even, patches change the way specs play and the specs they group with. Consequently, whatever spec you start the expansion with because it's fun / viable / whatever, these factors are bound to change in a month or two. Chances are, they will change to the point where you no longer want / can play the spec and would rather play a different spec of a different class. Hence you need alts. But alts are difficult now.

So, it's catch-22 - they can't really get the balance right, but they also make alts hard and so alts as a protection measure against imperfect balance don't work.

GG

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Honestly, Legion PVP is a couple of steps back from what it was before. I am sure they will undo some of these changes they did later on, to great fanfare (and to big applause from the fanboys who are currently fanboying over "no PVP gear" and "stat templates" - they will fanboy over "dedicated PVP gear from PVP" and "stats which you can customize" just as happily), but it is pretty sad how much time (years!) gets wasted not on improvements but rather just on standing still so to speak.

I'd like rated solo queue, I'd like the rework of 40x40 BGs into a separate "war" bracket together with Wintergrasp / Tol Barad / Ashran and with different rules (matches are designed to last for weeks, you drop in and drop out), I'd like just plain more BGs plus BG-centered rewards, I'd like so many more things which would spice it up and make it fun... but we are here, fighting the same tired issues with gearing and one spec one-shotting the others for I don't know how many years already. It's just frustrating.

[Deleted]

You do not have to remain 2k cr, as long as your highest rating for the previous week was 2k, youll get elite piece (unless RNG will screw you over), so lets say you started at 2020, but you dropped to 1950 after 10 wins, if at any point your CR was between 2k-2020 you will get it next week, you will just make sure to farm it up back to 2k next week.

My biggest issue with current PvP system is how alt unfriendly it is, not only we have to Grind AP, we also have to unlock Honor talents, and now 10 wins per box wtf... like i am sure a lot of ppl like myself have full time jobs, do other stuff outside of office friends, gym, etc. Which leaves no time at all to invest required amount of time to an alt. I love how Blizzard said it would be easier to jump in PvP in legion; while, it never been the farthest away as it is now for an alt to hop in rated pvp. In wod i could get my alt full conquest gear mid season in 2 days, and i will be on par with pvpers who plaid since day one, aka making PvP about skill not about time you invest grinding AP/Talents/Gear to be equal in rated. I honestly strongly believe that majority of Dev pvp team do not do rated pvp

Yeah exactly. They tried to make pvp participation easier by making gear matter less then added Honor talents and AP grind. Frankly I don't mind the honor talents so much but AP grind is horrifying. A new 110/alt or someone who never pvped before still gets destroyed when they set foot in bg/arena. WoD system was much better took only about a week or two to grind honor and conquest gear. Even then honor and conquest gear had only 10% difference. Now a veteran player already has 860-870 average ilvl so already 6-7% more dmg then fresh 110 on top of that full honor talents and majority of artifact talents. Difference now is way bigger than WoD or any other previous expansion.

[Crispin]

The Legion setup for gaining pvp gear is terrible, I fail to see how it was an improvement to recive the same leggings 3 times in a row, not sure wtf they were thinking, as others have pointed out, catching up was faster in WoD (as it should be), but a new 110 is gonna be behind for a looong time on AP, ilvl and honor talents compared to older 110 chars.

Not sure why they tried fixing something that was not broken.

[Deleted]

Another problem is you can get same armor type of another class as reward. Like I got the Warrior set's helm today but still haven't got my own class helm.

[Snegovik]

So basically you want the rated PvP rewards without doing rated PvP more than once?
That's like complaining that you have to clear a raid more than once to get all the loot.

Leaving that aside, talking about rewards you get at 2k and "hardcore" at the same time is pretty nonsensical.

Did you miss how i was talking about alt not main, i said make elite set requirement 2.6k cr it does not matter for me, but give us vendors so that ppl can buy elite skins/tabard/enchants when they get required rating not hope for RNG. so not sure how that is me wanting gear without doing rated PvP.

Dear sir if you pvped before, youd know u can not get all ur pvp gear on your main char in 1 arena sigh, it takes times to grind. even in wod when a catch up system was introduced for alts (not mains) you still needed to win a LOT arena games while fighting an uphill battle cuz you were undergeared vs fully geared ppl.

- - - Updated - - -

Now a veteran player already has 860-870 average ilvl so already 6-7% more dmg then fresh 110 on top of that full honor talents and majority of artifact talents. Difference now is way bigger than WoD or any other previous expansion.

Yep so much this ^^^, but for some reason only a small amount of ppl understand the reality, majority of ppl who post on mmo don't grasp this truth =(

[GT4]

Did you miss how i was talking about alt not main, i said make elite set requirement 2.6k cr it does not matter for me, but give us vendors so that ppl can buy elite skins/tabard/enchants when they get required rating not hope for RNG. so not sure how that is me wanting gear without doing rated PvP.

Dear sir if you pvped before, youd know u can not get all ur pvp gear on your main char in 1 arena sigh, it takes times to grind. even in wod when a catch up system was introduced for alts (not mains) you still needed to win a LOT arena games while fighting an uphill battle cuz you were undergeared vs fully geared ppl.

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Yep so much this ^^^, but for some reason only a small amount of ppl understand the reality, majority of ppl who post on mmo don't grasp this truth =(

You can get >840 in like two days doing random crap (BGs, world quests, mythics, etc.) so you're behind by 3%. The vast majority of power difference in PvP is due to artifact knowledge/artifact power and honor talents which has nothing to do with the topic. That's even excluding the possibility of crafting some 855 gear.

What you're asking for is to be able to do rated arena once to a certain rating and then just sit on the rating while still getting rewards from that rating through other means. That's the same as clearing a mythic raid once and then getting mythic raid loot from random heroics.

[Caolela]

Really guys look at the picture here:

Wrecked alts; rigged MMR system that's designed to keep you constantly in the hole (until you start to climb out a tad...then run into the scumlords which will knock you back down again); "bad luck protection" that means getting ahh...maybe only 48 pieces of crap instead of say idk...50? lol Might as well run a raid wing for months hoping for that BiS bracer or shield to drop that somehow never does til the end of the tier.

Honestly, Legion PVP is a couple of steps back from what it was before. I am sure they will undo some of these changes they did later on, to great fanfare (and to big applause from the fanboys who are currently fanboying over "no PVP gear" and "stat templates" - they will fanboy over "dedicated PVP gear from PVP" and "stats which you can customize" just as happily), but it is pretty sad how much time (years!) gets wasted not on improvements but rather just on standing still so to speak.

I'd like rated solo queue, I'd like the rework of 40x40 BGs into a separate "war" bracket together with Wintergrasp / Tol Barad / Ashran and with different rules (matches are designed to last for weeks, you drop in and drop out), I'd like just plain more BGs plus BG-centered rewards, I'd like so many more things which would spice it up and make it fun... but we are here, fighting the same tired issues with gearing and one spec one-shotting the others for I don't know how many years already. It's just frustrating.

And all the while you're standing still for months & years, waiting and hoping while the fanboys keep the fires burning on the stinking dung heap, you're paying that sub fee.

The last I heard anything from Blizz about the larger BGs was over 2 years ago during MoP. They had mentioned putting SotA, TB, WG, IoC, AV into a separate category called "War Campaigns" where they'd be much like you described. Those that wanted long epic battles would have their section to que for, and we'd still have the regular BGs and arenas. But probably Assran killed that.

[Snegovik]

You can get >840 in like two days doing random crap (BGs, world quests, mythics, etc.) so you're behind by 3%. The vast majority of power difference in PvP is due to artifact knowledge/artifact power and honor talents which has nothing to do with the topic. That's even excluding the possibility of crafting some 855 gear.

As i said in different posts (on different thread) i have no issues with higher CR giving higher ilvl i am fine with it. I was talking a huge flaw in reward system (absence of pvp vendors), I was talking about higher end PvP rewards including enchants/tabards(both are not currently in game), elite sets for xmog (that A LOT of players having issues obtaining due to RNG), to me its taking away carrot from PvPers. Personally if vendors would sell skins only, i would spend my time on my alts push 2k or 2.2k or 2.4k cr for xmog tiers, but due to RNGs i wont even bother to be honest and just play my main.

You simply said that i wanted free pvp gear, i said that even in WoD with catch up system in place you still had to win a LOT of games to get conquest gear and it was an uphill battle.

[GT4]

As i said in different posts (on different thread) i have no issues with higher CR giving higher ilvl i am fine with it. I was talking a huge flaw in reward system (absence of pvp vendors), I was talking about higher end PvP rewards including enchants/tabards(both are not currently in game), elite sets for xmog (that A LOT of players having issues obtaining due to RNG), to me its taking away carrot from PvPers. Personally if vendors would sell skins only, i would spend my time on my alts push 2k or 2.2k or 2.4k cr for xmog tiers, but due to RNGs i wont even bother to be honest and just play my main.

You simply said that i wanted free pvp gear, i said that even in WoD with catch up system in place you still had to win a LOT of games to get conquest gear and it was an uphill battle.

Wait... you're not the person I initially replied to. Why did you reply to me implying you are? ("Did you miss how i [...]")