Do you think Sylvanas vs Genn conflict is over in Legion?

[Mehrunes]

That would be a good idea only if actual Forsaken characters get real development, otherwise you would feel a faction with a lot of important characters and your pg looking like one of its peons. The PG-type of Forsaken should always be the main focus IMO, turning Nathanos into a human was stupid enough already.

Well, yeah, not saying the playable-type Forsaken should go away, just that I think having only them and few types of ghouls of abominations is not optimal. It puts some pretty nice models in the void, it is a missed opportunity for the story development of the Forsaken (in my opinion, I think interactions of various types of free undead could lead to some interesting things) as is a missed opportunity for the Forsaken themselves in-story, because hey, free manpower. It also goes against what Sylvanas said in 3.3 after Arthas died.

For example, my main focus in regards to this idea has always been the San'layn since I consider them to make the perfect fit for the Forsaken. Considering their extremely high ranking position in the Scourge as well as ties to Sylvanas extending to when both them and Sylvanas have been alive, they could be arrogant bastards and try to put themselves high in Forsaken hierarchy, leading to internal development for not just the San'layn, but also the normal type of the Forsaken standing up for themselves. The San'layn could have also tried gaining the support of the Dark Rangers and Banshees which are pretty much in the same boat.

As for the normal Forsaken, Forsaken have tons of different sub-groups that are completely underutilized. Are Dreadguards assholes to Deathguards because they are the elite force, akin to what I just said would be a possible outcome of San'layn joining? What about Executors, considering their position bleeds into civil sector as well in some cases (which could also lead to fleshing out that particular position). What are the relations between Shadowstalkers and Deathstalkers? What is the position towards both of them by other groups (especially Dreadguards)? Are they seen as compromised due to being under Varimathras? What about the Death Knights that have joined them? We know Koltira wasn't the only one. Did they know about Koltira's fate? Did they leave because of it or saw it acceptable given his treason? Then there's RAS, which has opportunity for both political maneuvering as well as their usual research stuff and redeeming themselves for Putress (well, in the eyes of the Forsaken and maybe the Horde, not going full "by the Light"). And maybe some development in relation to subgroups within RAS, like clarifying what the position of Plaguebringers is.

And finally, the more task oriented groups that consist of members of all of the above, i.e. Hand of Vengeance and Defilers. Do they have special priviledges? What are Defilers up to now that Galen has betrayed the Forsaken, then ruled Stormguarde, then led to its complete destruction? Is Hand of Vengeance still a thing? I recall that Warsong Hold has been mostly abandoned, but Forsaken, given Sylvanas' interest in freed undead expressed in 3.3 as well as her learning of the new Lich King and not being all too happy about it could have led to them maintaining forces there (and well, in light of Wrathgate having bases in frozen shithole the rest of the Horde is no longer interested in could be beneficial). Given how Bolvar is finally becoming more active, Hand of Vengeance still being a thing could also lead to interactions with the Lich King, Scourge and even Ebon Blade. And maybe even to Ebon Blade realizing Bolvar has been playing them and that at least causing a split in the group and that split subgroup joining the Forsaken en masse (another thing I'd like).

At least some of these groups have leaders which are already established as high ranking Forsaken (and the rest logically should as well, we just don't know the leaders, Dreadguards being an example here). Black Bride, Grand Executor Mortuus, High Executioner Anselm, Lady Cozwynn, Aleric Hawkins (apparently was active during the Legion invasions in pre-patch), Master Apothecary Faranell, Doctor Sintar Malefious (the only other known Grand Apothecary and the only remaining one after Putress' betrayal), Apothecary Lydon (he may lack in rank within RAS, but seems to have a penchant for politics). All of them (and more, vide the yet unkown leaders of some of these groups) should be much more important characters and share some of the spotlight currently clogged almost entirely by Sylvanas (and now Nathanos a bit, which, while an upgrade is also emphasizing the problem in a way). And by that they would flesh out their respective groups (well, support characters would also be welcome). These two would in turn amount for a lot of development for the entirety of the Forsaken.

And then there's the huge potential of old Forsaken vs new Forsaken, also centered about playable type. How do the new ones fit in? How do the old ones treat them? Are there sentiments to limit the advancement of the new Forsaken among the old ones? Do these two groups view the undead risen by Val'kyr that decided not to join the Forsaken differently? So on and so forth. Speaking of those who did not join, they also a potential hook, after all Rotbrains shouldn't be the only ones to do so.

Some could just explore the world and try to find their own place in the world like Forsaken did in the past and giving crazy quests for both sides. Some could maybe try to settle in Lordaeron and establish their own settlements, maybe a small state even and attempt maintain neutral-to-positive relations with Forsaken, just not wanting to be under their rule. Which would then lead to how Forsaken would treat that. Would they view it as OK, because they can understand each other better than the living? Would they accept it in the vein of a buffer zone against Alliance invasion? Would they turn hostile?

Back to these undead but staying on hostility, some of course could be hostile and we could see another group like Rotbrain appear, with their own leaders and all. And since the Alliance has been mentioned, what if the hostile ones tried to gain their support? Which in turn could translate to more fleshed out and in-depth story for the other faction as well. Would the Alliance accept that? Anduin could be open to the idea (though on the other hand he would also be pro-peace so maybe he'd give the condition of not seeking further conflict)? Would Genn try to block it? Or would he see it as ironic karma for Sylvanas and welcome them with open paws?

And with all of these normal looking Forsaken (that is if Blizzard was actually competent at developing more than 1-2 characters for races that aren't humans and Orcs) there would still be space for other types of undead within their kingdom. Few Liches (Helcular, Arcanus and maybe some female Lich to not let Deathwhisper's model rot in the void becoming Archliches of the Forsaken with some lower ranking ones here and there), remaining San'layn, developing Dark Rangers and Banshees further, maybe fleshing out the Ghouls, Abominations and the like (while also making them more varied), and potentially even one Marrowgar-like undead and few undead Nerubians that couldn't find their place in Azjol-Nerub.

Hell, not to mention the ghosts of Alliance Expedition that joined them all the way back in TBC. And apparently there is even a skeletal Orc since WoD (completely missed it), which is theorized to have been resurrected during Siege of Orgrimmar, which opens some more doors. One, Val'kyr growing even more stronger, which in itself is a story hook, but also, if that's the case, how do Orcs view it? Especially now that Sylvanas is Warchief. Oh, and of course the Val'kyr themselves. They are pretty important for the Forsaken society and yet we don't even know the names of the remaining ones. Their importance should also be reflected. Then there's the potential of Helya's Val'kyr joining and Sylvanas still attempting to do something with Eyir's Val'kyr.

[Zandalariprelate]

Yeah, that too. Really hoped for it. Hell, I hoped for it before there was even 5.2 on PTR. A missed opportunity and now the train has left the station pretty much.

Yeah I expected something like that too, but the blood elves wanted to retrieve the secrets of the Thunder King in the most secret manner and with the blackmail that sylvanas did to the regent lord i would expect him to search more power in behind the back of the horde

[Mehrunes]

Yeah I expected something like that too, but the blood elves wanted to retrieve the secrets of the Thunder King in the most secret manner and with the blackmail that sylvanas did to the regent lord i would expect him to search more power in behind the back of the horde

There is at least on Forsaken member of the Sunreaver Onslaught. And Blood Elve's escapades to Thunder Isle have been so secret that even Vol'jin knew about that.

[Zandalariprelate]

There is at least on Forsaken member of the Sunreaver Onslaught. And Blood Elve's escapades to Thunder Isle have been so secret that even Vol'jin knew about that.

Well Lor'themar inform vol'jin about his expedition and there is mage undead in that contingent but he never mention about the forsaken or anything for sylvanas which is kinda weir to me.

[Zulkhan]

Nothing supports it? *pointless fluff*

Well great, you missed the point entirely.

Seriously, whatever. I'm pretty much stating facts and why the cinematic has nothing supporting what you say, be it because it meant something different from what you say or because it was executed poorly/awfully. All you do though is keep typing "BUT HOW???????????!!?!?!" "REALLY!!???!!!???!?" "THAT MAKES NO SENSE 'CUZ REASONS DUUUUUUH!!" and similar dumb shit because well, I don't even know. It just makes me wonder why I even waste my time with you every damn time.

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And apparently there is even a skeletal Orc since WoD (completely missed it)

Wait, where the fuck it is?

About the rest, they're obviously all good ideas, but I imagine that even in the miraculous event Blizzard would take a mere 1/4 of them into consideration, a lot of this stuff would probably fit in external material, maybe some books focused on flashing out and explaining the political subtleties of all (or most, at least) races. It would not be sensible or dramatically important lore so there's wouldn't be people pissed about the "lore outside the game" but at the same time it would flesh out factions and fill tons of gaps and holes, with the obvious potential of occasionally show some of that stuff in-game as well.

[Traveler Voltin]

If genn dies then i have no problem with the worgen having gilneas. I will even help them rebuild

[Huntermyth]

i certainly hope it is over... for genn's sake. that old fart was about to push daisies at their last meeting.

[Darth-Piekus]

Hope it's over at some point. Her plot armor is seriously becoming annoying at some point.

[Arrashi]

Wait, where the fuck it is?

Warspear alchemist.

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Hope it's over at some point. Her plot armor is seriously becoming annoying at some point.

Nope, she will stay forever just to torment and spite alliance. It will never end.

[Benomatic]

Uh, no, she's been to Lordaeron before it became the ruins of Lordaeron. The entire Undercity was built after Lordaeron's fall. NO, there was not a giant death-themed underground catacombs beneath Lordaeron previously to its fall, jesus christ.

There were catacombs, crypts, sewers and prisons, many homeless lived there.

[Tripzzz]

Well great, you missed the point entirely.

Seriously, whatever. I'm pretty much stating facts and why the cinematic has nothing supporting what you say, be it because it meant something different from what you say or because it was executed poorly/awfully. All you do though is keep typing "BUT HOW???????????!!?!?!" "REALLY!!???!!!???!?" "THAT MAKES NO SENSE 'CUZ REASONS DUUUUUUH!!" and similar dumb shit because well, I don't even know. It just makes me wonder why I even waste my time with you every damn time.

You were unable to address the points I brought up. Haha. Like I had previously said, if his goal was the Soulcage, how can he be sure she wouldn't just obtain another one? You are basically saying Genn no longer wants to kill Slyvanus for killing his son, invading Gilneas, and "betraying" Varian. Genn's life goal is now to simply poop in her cereal apparently.

[Deleted]

Not that great of a chance considered the considerable distance between Genn and Sylvanas. Letting alone that he seemed to almost "warn" Sylvanas on purpose (which kind of further the idea that he aimed at something more than just a killing blow) there was enough distance for Sylvanas to notice Genn's presence even without said warning, Genn makes a very audible sound when he jumps and it took several moments before eventually reaching Sylvanas' spot.



And nothing supports this. To actually support this assumption we would need an acknowledgeable blatant moment where he felt hopeless, cornered and without chances. Instead it was the exact opposite. He went for the Soulcage when he was the one who forced Sylvanas on a position of utter disadvantage.



Yes? Because is the one told right after he achieved what he wanted, not some random threat.



It's almost like you forgot what the smashing of that lantern meant. I agree it wasn't the smartest shit but you're making it look like Genn risked his life to smash a lantern because he was annoyed by its light.



Which is not a very different opinion from the one you had to begin with in regards of Genn's actions, so whatever? I guess we can just conclude that both Genn and Sylvanas had their own dumb reasons to be dumb. Seriously, I would be the first to prefer the idea that Genn went to directly kill Sylvanas and then "changed ideas" but nothing really supports this and the situation that played out pretty much supported the contrary. If Blizzard really meant that than they did quite a terrible job in showing it.

I'm pretty much on your side and I quite like the idea that Genn attacked to smash the lantern and simply destroy Sylvanas future, as this would further show how similar Genn and Sylvanas are, as Rivals in the faction conflict. The whole Cinematic reminded me on Sylvanas when she attacked Arthas in TFT. Sylvanas didn't wanted to simply kill Arthas and have her revenge, she wanted to make him suffer. I think it's the same with Genn, he doesn't want to simply kill Sylvanas, he wants vengeance. He wants that she suffers the same way he did, he wants to show Sylvanas how it feels when someone is taking away her future and the future of her people, just like Sylvanas and the Forsaken stole the future of his son and his country. Both of them are bitter, vengefull characters.

That's quite ironic because if there's anyone risking a redemption story that's not the Forsaken but Sylvanas herself. She's actually on a pretty good way for that.

I think the Forsaken as a whole need some kind of redemption, just as Sylvanas does. I have thought about it, and do you know what I would love to see, what would feel satisfying for a Forsaken redemption, instead of simply turning them into the not so bad guys? If the Plot would direct them into full Scourge Mode, really, let them be as bad as the Scourge was until Characters like Sylvanas have one moment where they face the victims and see what they have become, that they inflict the same fear and pain towards others as Arthas and the Scourge does. I would love if Blizz would give them one moment where they fully see the direction they went to since Cataclysm, just to let them decide that they don't want to be like that, that they don't want to be the evil, cruel undeads, but be better than what people expects for them. I would love to see the Forsaken give up upon Val'kyrs and necromancy and accept the mortality of their kind and instead chose to forge a good legacy for the Forsaken kind, to forge them into something that will well remembered by the other races of Azeroth.

That would be a good idea only if actual Forsaken characters get real development, otherwise you would feel a faction with a lot of important characters and your pg looking like one of its peons. The PG-type of Forsaken should always be the main focus IMO, turning Nathanos into a human was stupid enough already.

I kinda like his new model, but I think there should really be more Forsaken NPCs. There should be Forsaken who are noble and don't want war with the humans.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I think the Forsaken as a whole need some kind of redemption, just as Sylvanas does. I have thought about it, and do you know what I would love to see, what would feel satisfying for a Forsaken redemption, instead of simply turning them into the not so bad guys? If the Plot would direct them into full Scourge Mode, really, let them be as bad as the Scourge was until Characters like Sylvanas have one moment where they face the victims and see what they have become, that they inflict the same fear and pain towards others as Arthas and the Scourge does. I would love if Blizz would give them one moment where they fully see the direction they went to since Cataclysm, just to let them decide that they don't want to be like that, that they don't want to be the evil, cruel undeads, but be better than what people expects for them. I would love to see the Forsaken give up upon Val'kyrs and necromancy and accept the mortality of their kind and instead chose to forge a good legacy for the Forsaken kind, to forge them into something that will well remembered by the other races of Azeroth.

I kinda like his new model, but I think there should really be more Forsaken NPCs. There should be Forsaken who are noble and don't want war with the humans.

by noble and not wanting war with humans do you mean rolling over and letting the Humans kill them? Because the only way they would need to accept their "mortality" as it were is because of constant warfare with the humans.

[Deleted]

by noble and not wanting war with humans do you mean rolling over and letting the Humans kill them? Because the only way they would need to accept their "mortality" as it were is because of constant warfare with the humans.

When? When did real human military forces other than the Scarlet Crusade really attacked the Forsaken withouth provocation or the Forsaken attacking first? Hillsbrad? Not really dangerous and we don't know who started this. Stromgarde, Forsaken attacked another human nation, Gilneas, Forsaken attacked another human nation. Undercity wass only attacked after a bunch of Forsaken killed the Highlord of Stormwind and his soldiers. Even in the Case of Nathanos we don't know who attacked first, the Alliance Adventurers Nathanos or Nathanos the High Elves.

[Friendlyimmolation]

When? When did real human military forces other than the Scarlet Crusade really attacked the Forsaken withouth provocation or the Forsaken attacking first? Hillsbrad? Not really dangerous and we don't know who started this. Stromgarde, Forsaken attacked another human nation, Gilneas, Forsaken attacked another human nation. Undercity wass only attacked after a bunch of Forsaken killed the Highlord of Stormwind and his soldiers. Even in the Case of Nathanos we don't know who attacked first, the Alliance Adventurers Nathanos or Nathanos the High Elves.

Again, the forsaken have two choices. Ignore the Alliance and hope they don't attack them or make their kingdom stronger so everyone would be too afraid to attack them. What happens if they ignore hillsbrad, the stormpike become stronger, if they didnt attack Gilnaes the Horde leaves them, if they don't take Stromgarde then the Alliance might, or the route to the other Horde settlement it cut away. The noble undead is a cool idea, but it only works if they honestly believed they could thrive without the Val'kyr and their fighting. Rare is the forsaken that would willingly not fight. The Alliance made it perfectly clear that they want the Forsaken's land.

As far as Nathanos goes, its pretty laid out that he attacked and killed high elves first, he really wanted that book.

[Sluvs]

Like i said Garithos was one of the last (if not the last living) who represented Lordaeron goverment (military). Sylvanas betraying him makes her war criminal and self proclaimed ruler of Lordaeron's lands.

He was a High ranking officer of an army and government that did not exist anymore. His power was imaginary. If that wasnt enough, the lordaeron citizens still have rights to their land.

I meant when they was resurrected in middle of battle they was affected by bloodrage. They wasn't 100% aware of what they doing so Sylvanas used it and turn them against Alliance. Blizzard stated what those who was resurrected at such was easy to manipulate. Don't say me what Forsaken won that fight without dirty tricks.

Firstly, source on the easily manipulated part. And that still does not disprove what he says, the new generation of undead choose to be undead. The undead fight because they want to, they are not controlled, or in a crazy rage whatsoever.

The problem is if Sylvanas dies Forsaken lore will probably dump. Blizzard cornered themselves. While worgens have lore outside Genn progression and Genn can be replaced. Thats the difference. Forsaken on other hand too bonded to Sylvanas. They whole race lore revolts around one person. I like Forsaken as race but their story is all about Sylvanas.

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe it will force forsaken lore to develop because they will need a leader. I think she is a cool character, but her death could be even better.

Answers in bold.

[Deleted]

Again, the forsaken have two choices. Ignore the Alliance and hope they don't attack them or make their kingdom stronger so everyone would be too afraid to attack them. What happens if they ignore hillsbrad, the stormpike become stronger, if they didnt attack Gilnaes the Horde leaves them, if they don't take Stromgarde then the Alliance might, or the route to the other Horde settlement it cut away. The noble undead is a cool idea, but it only works if they honestly believed they could thrive without the Val'kyr and their fighting. Rare is the forsaken that would willingly not fight. The Alliance made it perfectly clear that they want the Forsaken's land.

As far as Nathanos goes, its pretty laid out that he attacked and killed high elves first, he really wanted that book.

I'm pretty sure that the Forsaken are right now strong enough to fight withouth necromancy. It's not like the humans have a real advantage, if we assume that teenagers are allowed to serve in the military, considering that Nazgrim thought that Anduin was a alliance soldier, than it still takes humanity 15 to 16 years to creat a new generation of soldiers. And again, maybe the humans wouldn't be so hostile if the Forsaken wouldn't attack their lands all the time? And the current king of Stormwind is Anduin, the king who is known for hating war and loving diplomacy. How about Sylvanas would once in her lifetime do what a leader has to do and try a piece of diplomacy? And maybe the Forsaken could try to make things right with Gilneas again? Give them their land back, offer them to help rebuild it for a peace treaty? Because, even if Genn would still go full revenge and war, you know what would chance? That other humans start to see that Forsaken are not simply bloodthirsty monsters, this is the way he act currently towards humans, but can act like decent beings.

Or simply give us one such Undead, that rises in the ranks of Forsaken Military because of his tactical skilsl and his abillity to raise the morals of his troup, who acts in a noble way because he believes that it is his honor that makes him different from the feral undeads. I would consider the Forsaken more as near-human beings with the same rights as humans if we would see Forsaken who don't act like a bunch of murderous creeps.

[Friendlyimmolation]

'm pretty sure that the Forsaken are right now strong enough to fight withouth necromancy. It's not like the humans have a real advantage, if we assume that teenagers are allowed to serve in the military, considering that Nazgrim thought that Anduin was a alliance soldier, than it still takes humanity 15 to 16 years to creat a new generation of soldiers.

and then when they attack again, the forsaken would be weaker and weaker over time. Hence the reason they use necromancy.

And again, maybe the humans wouldn't be so hostile if the Forsaken wouldn't attack their lands all the time?

Humans fought each other for land long before the undead ever came into being. No way in hell would the Humans magically decide to live alongside the Forsaken if they ever thought they could take them out.

And the current king of Stormwind is Anduin, the king who is known for hating war and loving diplomacy. How about Sylvanas would once in her lifetime do what a leader has to do and try a piece of diplomacy?

Lol, sylvanas has always done what a leader should do as far as the Forsaken are concerned. Just because Anduin would possibly call for peace doesnt mean Genn or Rogers would magically stop sending forces to fight the Forsaken, and then Sylvanas would have wasted her time.

And maybe the Forsaken could try to make things right with Gilneas again? Give them their land back, offer them to help rebuild it for a peace treaty?

Why would the Forsaken ever intentionally make themselves weaker to a guy who has made it quite obvious he wants to take them out.

Because, even if Genn would still go full revenge and war, you know what would chance? That other humans start to see that Forsaken are not simply bloodthirsty monsters, this is the way he act currently towards humans, but can act like decent beings.

yes I'm sure all the humans would magically love the forsaken and not totally join Genn ,especially if he promised them things all humans want/ land power etc.

Or simply give us one such Undead, that rises in the ranks of Forsaken Military because of his tactical skilsl and his abillity to raise the morals of his troup, who acts in a noble way because he believes that it is his honor that makes him different from the feral undeads. I would consider the Forsaken more as near-human beings with the same rights as humans if we would see Forsaken who don't act like a bunch of murderous creeps.

You mean sylvanas with her skills and ability to turn the Forsaken's morals up to 11? They don't need to be shouting for "justice or king's honor" or whatever. It doesn't matter what you consider the forsaken, because they are never going to make themselves subservient to humans to try to make them feel better. They couldn't care any less if you think they don't have the same rights as a human, they have their own kingdom with their own laws and they most certainly wont give up Val'kyr because someone said it would make them noble.

[Mehrunes]

Wait, where the fuck it is?

As Arasshi said, Warspear alchemy area. And the weird thing is that now that I think about this, I have seen this NPC numerous times. The portal to Undercity is right next to that place after all. I just never stopped to think about wtf am I actually seeing. And I think it being resurrected by the Forsaken is likely, even if not at SoO (after all, tons of Orcs available during WoD). The main alternative is some Shadowmoon defection, but most of their skeletons appear mindless.

About the rest, they're obviously all good ideas, but I imagine that even in the miraculous event Blizzard would take a mere 1/4 of them into consideration, a lot of this stuff would probably fit in external material, maybe some books focused on flashing out and explaining the political subtleties of all (or most, at least) races. It would not be sensible or dramatically important lore so there's wouldn't be people pissed about the "lore outside the game" but at the same time it would flesh out factions and fill tons of gaps and holes, with the obvious potential of occasionally show some of that stuff in-game as well.

I wouldn't mind a book one bit. Hell, it could even be an encyclopedia of Azerothian politics, maybe as a part of later Chronicles, or a separate one. Progression is progression. Well, though some book storylines (or in-game) would be more welcome of course. Still, encyclopedia would be better than nothing we have currently. Of course, I'd love to see some of it represented in-game as well. While the general story arcs could be in books, there should still be references to that. So, keeping my examples, a Forsaken soldiers could bitch about their San'layn officer and San'layn in general, either in gossip dialogue or in quest text. And the questlines I talked about, like helping Helcular finally ascend. Diverging from what I mentioned already, another questline could be a small update to Arathi, where Defilers lead a conclusive campaign to capture Stromgarde and the rest of the zone.

Then there's representation of Forsaken forces that should be reflected. Undercity could be expanded a bit since the Horde's current Warchief rules from it right now. Doesn't have to be a big rework, after all, Undercity already has unused balcony areas in the outer quarters of the city. They could be made more accessible and enlarged a bit, with some additional changes to Royal Quarter and Apothecarium bottom level. The San'layn could occupy the balcony in the Apothecarium since it's closest to Royal Quarter, Death Knights and Nerubians the one in War Quarter, Liches in Mage Quarter and dunno, TBC ghosts in Rogues' Quarter. With Dark Rangers having a more centralized presence in "ground" level of Rogues' Quarter (or maybe Apothecarium), Banhees in Mage Quarter. The Marrowgar-like undead could be the guardian of the larger room of the back entrance (they make for fitting guardians in my opinion) since it's in a dire need of a security upgrade.

And the Forsaken forces could get that as well, Shadowstalkers and Deathstalkers in Rogues' Quarter, Dreadguards and Deathguards in War Quarter, Executors either in War Quarter as well or in Apotehcarium (also due to proximity to the throne room) and Forsaken magic troops (I really think they should get their own due to how many former Dalaran Mages and Blood Elves they have; also, could include a heavy influence of darker magic like Warlocks and Cult of the Forgotten Shadow) in Mage Quarter. And while Hand of Vengeance and Defilers don't need a constant presence in Undercity other than having their representatives in Royal Quarter (more on that below), we could also see some of their members dealing with issues of logistics and resources in Trade Quarter.

As for the bottom area of Apothecarium, I'd enlarge the Royal Apothecary Society's laboratory and split it in multiple wings (they don't have to be big, just to show the newly fleshed out structure of the RAS). Sinctair Malefious would lead the Blight research department, Chief Plaguebringer Middleton would lead the Blight deployment systems, someone else would lead the ghoul and abomination creation (which would also be a good place to have the additional ghoul and abomination types, though these could also guard specific areas of the city in addition to normal abominations, ghouls could patrol the city as the lowest in position while special abominations, be it Rotface/Festergut type or Grobulus-type, or whatever for that matter, would guard the most critical areas) and perhaps some department for misc or unspecified research. And the middle area would be for administration department, with Faranell working from there being the leader and Lydon being the liaison between RAS and Sylvanas.

The only thing needed to be done with the Royal Quarter is some small enlargement to fit the leaders or representatives of all the forces to report to Sylvanas and form a council of advisers. And well, with her being the Warchief, perhaps the representatives of other Horde forces as well.

All in all, not a tremendous amount of work required, but it would give a lot of flavor for the Forsaken and their capital (especially by decorating the areas appropriately, with things like blood vats for San'layn balcony, some Nerubian ziggurat architecture for their place, so on and so forth), as well as give some representation for would-be lore from books (the mere presence of the characters mentioned there would already be an upgrade for the state of things).

And, finally, the part that I think should be in-game for sure is some recurring NPCs. This part isn't even specific to the Forsaken, all races need this. Have us see the NPCs from previous campaigns again. The way things are, almost always each new outpost is filled with completely new characters which effectively makes everyone nobodies. Of course some balance should be made and new characters continued to be introduced, but we also should see familiar faces. Let Mortuus lead another operation, let Anselm do the same. Let us see advancement of some characters, like Darnell being made into a Dreadguard and then an Executor. Things like that made Nazgrim a pretty great character and they can work just fine for others. After all, exposure is kinda a requirement for character development and character development for secondary characters is what Warcraft severely lacks. And because of lack of it the spotlight is clogged by the leaders.

[Highwhale]

Or simply give us one such Undead, that rises in the ranks of Forsaken Military because of his tactical skilsl and his abillity to raise the morals of his troup, who acts in a noble way because he believes that it is his honor that makes him different from the feral undeads. I would consider the Forsaken more as near-human beings with the same rights as humans if we would see Forsaken who don't act like a bunch of murderous creeps.

Blizzard should re rez Arthas make redemption story for him and let him lead Forsakens after Sylvanas got rekted by Genn's claws.