What are you hoping for in the upcoming changes?

[Coffeexbean]

to make it simple.. buff afflictions's baseline abilities so that we arent forced to pick talents

[Deleted]

Good point but again you would really want to sacrifice cleave, which what the spec excels at, for more ST damage? When most fights have cleave? Ok.

Cleave would stay the same. Read my posts

If you buff ST you are buffing cleave at the same time. If you only buff ST and not nerf Havoc then warlocks are even stronger at cleave

[Deleted]

Are people seriously hoping for Wreak havoc nerfs? The only substantial talent that puts us in any sort of relevance? And for fucking single target increase?
Seriously, if you want to get benched for mythic progression just ask your GM and don't mess with the rest of us, rofl. If you insist on nerfing Havoc, making Shadowburn baseline would be seriously appreciated..

You could make it so that the increased single target damage, which would come from making Incinerate and Chaos Bolt stronger, would compensate for having a reducer element in Wreak Havoc. You could increase Chaos Bolt's damage but reduce it on cleave as a zero-sum game.

You yourself point out that Wreak Havoc is the only talent that makes destruction what it is. Basically destruction is balancing on one leg. Without Wreak Havoc it's pretty lousy, any pure single target fight destruction is as bad as affliction; it's better in Mythic because extra adds turn everything into cleave fights.

But most people do not raid Mythic, and the game shouldn;t be balanced around it.

Destruction's design is bad. It leans far too heavily on one single talent. This renders the other talents more or less irrelevent. It also means that destruction locks have to pray for a cleave fight. It means you get absurd swings in performance from being top to bottom, very few other classes have such dramatic peaks and troughs, even though they all have better performance in some encounters than others.

You could increase Chaos Bolt's damage but reduce it on cleave as a zero-sum game. The result would be a more versatile destruction, other talents would be made decent choices, no more praying for cleave fights and so on.

As it stands you yourself point out, destruction is a one trick pony, it is totally dependent on Wreak Havoc...that's just plain bad.

For example suppose at the moment you do Chaos Bolt for 300k: Wreak Havoc means you do 600k. If you buffed Chaos Bolt by 50% it would do 600k on it's own. To stop cleave gettin gout of control you introduce a reducer to Havoc "Your single target spells now hit two targets but their damage is reduced by 50%". You still do 600k on your Havoc.

Result, your Chaos Bolt does every bit as much damage on cleave as it does now, but has much greater single target damage for when you can;t cleave. Destruction no longer keeps the tanks company when it cannot cleave. It is better at killing priority adds. Destruction is now a more versatile spec, other talents become more viable, you are no longer only good for Mythic raids because of one single talent.

Moreover, your Chaos Bolt now feels like something where you build up resources and a long cast to do something big and scarey, instead of having to be neutered to stop it being OP when you can double it using Havoc.

[Reaper11b]

Cleave would stay the same. Read my posts

If you buff ST you are buffing cleave at the same time. If you only buff ST and not nerf Havoc then warlocks are even stronger at cleave

I get that, but I highly doubt Blizz will buff ST without touching Havoc. That seems to be the point in Destro currently, so I would find it highly unlikely that they'll just straight buff ST for destro without nerfing Havoc in some form.

Nothing is wrong with Destro currently, Affliction is the only thing that needs an overhaul. But maybe you'll get your wish, stranger things have happened.

[Deleted]

I get that, but I highly doubt Blizz will buff ST without touching Havoc. That seems to be the point in Destro currently, so I would find it highly unlikely that they'll just straight buff ST for destro without nerfing Havoc in some form.

Nothing is wrong with Destro currently, Affliction is the only thing that needs an overhaul. But maybe you'll get your wish, stranger things have happened.

They can buff Chaos Bolt (and other single target spells) and reduce Havoc as a zero-sum. You can balance the buff and nerf

Having destruction totally dependent on one single talent, balancing around and then having players pray for boss fights where they can endlessly cleave is a problem. Particularly outside of Mythic. Mythic modes flatter destruction because you get more adds and everything becomes a cleave-fest.

Destruction is awful on non-Mythic versions of Ursoc or Nythendra, for example. It's as bad as affliction.

Some folks seem to have a very narrow viewpoint, that because destruction can lean on it;s Wreak Havoc crutch in Mythic there's nothing wrong with it. There is, it is simply bad design to have the entire spec rotate around one single talent. It violates everything that Blizz have ever said about spec balance and how talents should work.

[Baconeggcheese]

Reverse Entropy baseline.

Also if they could axe Mana Tap for good, that would be bril.

^This mostly, I'd be really happy to see RE made baseline. Also what's a bril?

Things that'd be cool off the top of my head but we don't really NEED:
~I wouldn't mind seeing destro mastery changed, don't really have any love for it. Would also really prefer it affecting our entire kit.

~I've been saying I'd like to see demonic empowerment become Hots azmodan's general from hell ability since alpha, still think it would be really fitting for the fantasy of having this demon army, and would feel a lot better gameplay wise than having to empower the demons every summon. The button could even swap to something else that commands the general to do something while its up.

~Aff could use its ramp toned down, or something to deal with the pace of the game in 2016 that is very ramp-unfriendly.

~Channel demonfire could do with some QoL and a numbers buff. There's not a particular reason for it to be tied to immolate as its very clearly intended to be a ST only talent, and it being tied to immolate mucks up its havoc usage in the event where you have a fight that is mostly ST but can still make use of havoc.

~Lord of flames sup interaction could use work, would rather it just give us an extra button either in the spellbook or on both the infernal and doomguards pet bar (that we could then macro) or something to that affect since pet twisting feels awful.

~Would really prefer something reminiscent of the old version of fire and brimstone be baseline (Not affecting CB) and have it generate shards in some way so that it would play into RoF and smooth out the specs aoe rotation instead of it being the version right now where you either have to tab-immolate to sustain RoF or you just spam FnB and completely ignore your baseline aoe unless you have feretory at which point you can cast a RoF every once in a blue moon.

~Would really like burning rush to be baseline, it feels horrendous when you don't have it but its not a strong enough talent to really be taken over dark pact unless you just really don't need dark pact. Too many times I'm lagging behind my team on a run back because I have no baseline speed boost.

~They could do something with soul harvest to make it competitive on that row, the current interaction with dots is pretty bad. For instance as destro you'd want to use it for the initial hit of cataclysm, but you also want the immolates up that cataclysm gives in order to extend its duration. Lose lose feeling there.

~Would really like to see backdraft / shadowburn become baseline again, they've both been such core parts of playing destro the last 2 xpacs that the spec feels like its missing something when you don't have them.

~Implosion baseline, the spec can't really aoe without it which feels awful. Would prefer the talent in that row makes implosion or something about demos aoe stronger (and obviously adjust implosion accordingly) instead of it being the difference between whether or not you can aoe at all.

~Would like sow the seeds to be baseline and a talent in its place that buffs the specs aoe (again adjusting the baseline to compensate). Basically I want the talent choices to be whether or not I want stronger aoe or single target etc instead of my talent choices being whether or not I can aoe at all vs slightly stronger ST / cleave etc.

~Demonbolt baseline, this talent feels really rewarding in that if you manage your demons / rotation well your filler becomes something slightly meaty and meaningful. Its basically malefic grasp. Would also like the animation to be calmed down a bit, the giant pool around our legs / feet is kind of obnoxious and can obscure vision on certain mechanics (volcanic).

~Something that lets demonology command its demons to target swap, this is something I was hoping for during alpha as well to really differentiate the spec from aff / a standard dot spec since summoning pets is basically just placing dots on a single target but letting them be able to swap (maybe on a CD or with a cost) would give it the only dots that can swap targets on demand and would really help with the specs poor target switching capabilities. Was thinking it could be called imp-erative for the luls.

~soul effigy could use some serious QoL and something better than just reusing the soulburn graphic would be nice too. Don't feel the soulburn animation really sells the "effigy" part.

~pets not being spec specific anymore, and gosac giving pet abilities again. I've had so many times doing mythic+ dungeons where I have to pick between having an interrupt or having the "correct" pet out / sac which feels awful.

~That glyph that makes feared targets tremble in place back would be nice as well, have serious CC issues when pushing higher mythic+ and fearing something across the map isn't always an option. Would be especially useful if something like this existed for howl of terror as well since at present its mostly just inferior to having shadowfury due to it spreading out adds all over the place and again the situation where you can't have an add run across the map.

~When I originally gave feedback on the reap soul mechanic, I was really hoping they would keep the souls spawning on a timer and not make it a proc. The reason for that was I wanted the spec to be tuned around not really having many souls baseline / single target and then use the mechanic to make up for affs weak spot, rapidly dying adds. With souls being very scarce and the spec being tuned around that, it'd allow rapidly dying adds to double down on affs strengths by buffing what its good at and pouring that into the boss or a priority add instead of the proc its become that's almost just another maintenance buff.

[Reaper11b]

^This mostly, I'd be really happy to see RE made baseline. Also what's a bril?

I believe when he said "that would be bril", bril = brilliant.

[Baconeggcheese]

I believe when he said "that would be bril", bril = brilliant.

Ah, makes sense.

[ComputerNerd]

To avoid repetition of the same gameplay suggestions, a different idea.
Going out into the world and enslaving demons for appearances as hunters can with beasts.

[dmon83]

To avoid repetition of the same gameplay suggestions, a different idea.
Going out into the world and enslaving demons for appearances as hunters can with beasts.

Jesus christ this would be GREAT.

[Sylar Hao]

Destro:

- I know this one will never happen: Replace Soul Shards with a revamped version of Burning Embers. If Demon Hunters, Mages and all hybrids can have different sources per spec(s), I see no reason for Warlocks to share one when it clearly only fit one of the specs (MY opinion).
--- Gimme back my fire around me!

- Mastery rework. Any mastery we've got before is better than this one. Chaotic doesn't mean Destructive, and viceversa. Suggestion: every 4 times you deal damage with Destruction spells to a target (ticks from Immolate counts) (trinkets, sets, and others don't count), you deal an instant explotion for % of your Spell power, increased by mastery rating. Explotions happen independently on each target.

- Make Chaos Bolt be the biggest damaging spell in the game again and be casted less frequently. Reduce damage elsewhere.

- Reverse Entropy baseline.
--- Remove Life Tap.
----- Add back Mana-Energy like in MoP. But actually making this mana-energy something you should take care. In the beginning of MoP you could go OOM and unable to cast, but from mid to end expansion it was nearly impossible to run OOM.

- Remove Mana Tap. Period. Managing buffs abilities are no fun. Period.

- Cataclysm cooldown and cast time reduced. Probably a damage nerf as well, but I prefer being able to cast it more frequently.

- Untie? Unbind? (I'm not sure about the word) Channel Demonfire from Immolate. Just make it single target and interact with Havoc.

- Add a talent replacing Mana Tap and Reversed Entropy with one that makes Immolate instant and deal damage more frequently? Maybe?

- Dark Soul: Instability back as our big CD. Not that I don't like our guardians, specially the Infernal is very fitting for Destruction, but I still prefer to be the guy who brings tons of damage, not through my pet(s).
--- Or make Firestone a non-PvP talent or baseline ability, while keeping the guardians as the big cd. Seriously, a spec called Destruction needs to critical strike a lot more than we do now, and needs big cd for it.

- Remove the extra damage from Imp's Fireball and Impish Incineration. I understand that the imp is the more fitting demon for the spec, but whenever you need a tank or a sexy succubus you can notice the damage dropping.
--- Add a talent to make the Imp's Fireball (and Doomguard's Doom bolt with GoSup) interact with Havoc. That would still bring that flavor to the imp in fights where cleaving is key, while bringing other pets to the table for other reasons.

I know that only Reverse Entropy baseline may make it, though

[Deleted]

Ironic that warlock shave been masters of demons since forever and have been unable to tame none of them despite having enite worlds full of demons

Even Enslave is pretty crap. "But it would make it hard to balance"..meh, if they can do it for hunters...

But then it took us about ten years of complaints to get new skins for our demons. Some of those years were spent saying "hey, why not use the readymade ones you have in OUtland, like the Voidlord and Shivarra?"

We got them. Eventually...

[Hamunra]

You do realize that if single target is buffed, but wreak havoc is nerfed it does stay roughly the same depending on how much ST is buffed or wreak havoc is nerfed?

You cannot buff ST by a lot if you dont nerf cleave. If blizzard would buff Chaos Bolt by 25% and Immolate by 10% and Incinerate by 15% then Destruction warlocks would completely wreck everyone on each fight where you can use havoc. Especially on fights where Wreak Havoc has a huge uptime.

How about make the middle 100 lvl talent buff our Rifts for destro? Rifts are mostly a single target ability and you would have to choose between Wreak and this new Rift ability? Maybe immolation ticks have a 10%-20% chance to refund a rift.

[Liirin]

~I've been saying I'd like to see demonic empowerment become Hots azmodan's general from hell ability since alpha, still think it would be really fitting for the fantasy of having this demon army, and would feel a lot better gameplay wise than having to empower the demons every summon. The button could even swap to something else that commands the general to do something while its up.

...

~Something that lets demonology command its demons to target swap, this is something I was hoping for during alpha as well to really differentiate the spec from aff / a standard dot spec since summoning pets is basically just placing dots on a single target but letting them be able to swap (maybe on a CD or with a cost) would give it the only dots that can swap targets on demand and would really help with the specs poor target switching capabilities. Was thinking it could be called imp-erative for the luls.

I think the general from hell idea would be an interesting idea but as I read the second part about commanding demons to swap (and not the pet bar one atm which is still pretty atrocious at times)what if Demonic Empowerment was that command instead basically a portal that they jump through to reappear to the other target? Also to whoever was talking about summoning different demons with how many shards you spent with HoG - while that sounds interesting and fitting if we want to talk about class fantasy, it would completely wreck 2 of our gold traits which revolve around the number of imps we have. What would be more interesting or possible might be for so many times we summon maybe we get X summon in addition.

While reading this thread, I agree as well with a lot of what has been said with Destro's RE, SB, BD. They should've not been removed I feel in the first place. Though I also do not want to go back to Charred Remains either, so if those changes added and otherwise was kept as is but with our bloody EMBERS again that would probably actually make me feel like playing destro more. And don't even talk about destro mastery as it still irritates me to no end

As far as affi which has always been my favorite, it needs a lot of help. I like the fact that we can do aoe on trash but not at the sacrifice of not having any single target. Sow the seeds should be baseline as it still consumes a shard to embed the extra seeds. While drain soul coming back could be a good thing if it acts as an execute again, I kind of like the choice between it and DL atm as while on a raid boss could be ok to have both but any other adds even dungeons you hardly get use out of it. I'd rather us get Shadowbolt back to help with some of our ramp time issues. Beyond that there is some other suggestion here that could be used but really its partially the artifact and partially the talents that screw affi so much

[Jessicka]

To avoid repetition of the same gameplay suggestions, a different idea.
Going out into the world and enslaving demons for appearances as hunters can with beasts.

So, rather than repeating, just copy-pasting from another class? A suggestion that's been made pretty much every week for years? Did you ever do the original summoning questlines that taught you why this is not how it works?

[Deleted]

How about make the middle 100 lvl talent buff our Rifts for destro? Rifts are mostly a single target ability and you would have to choose between Wreak and this new Rift ability? Maybe immolation ticks have a 10%-20% chance to refund a rift.

sounds good

[Baconeggcheese]

Did you ever do the original summoning questlines that taught you why this is not how it works?

Blizzard could easily do whatever they want in that regard, they're not exactly shackled by the past.

And the threads supposed to be a wishlist kinda deal so, let people wish for things.

[Dagon]

In spite of me repeating some of the great suggestions in this thread i'll still like to voice my opinion:

Destruction:
Reverse Entropy Baseline, Replace this talent with a procc ability, say your conflags has a chance to make your next cb cost no shards or something. just something that can procc and make the gameplay less stiff (doesnt have to be my suggestion)

Cataclysm reduce cast time, dont need more instant damage but the applied immolates could be stronger than your average immolate.

Shadowburn baseline but only useable below 30% , increased damage.

Mastery reworked or made less rng somehow.

Rework mana tap. make it improved life tap that lets us cast the next spell after tapping while moving. with a cooldown of the spell effect so it doesnt get abused and lets you run around and cast all the time cause thats just silly. that way even with reverse entropy baseline we'd still have to sacrifice something (health) to gain the benefit of moving. Maybe you could even increase the health cost and not have it being a cooldown on the spells you can cast, say it costs 20-30% of your health to be able to freecast for 6 seconds or something. and that way lifetap still remains relevant even with entropy baseline.

Eradication could use a few extra seconds (pointed out earlier in the thread)

If focused chaos doesnt happen, we need some love on single target, the safest way and easiest way is to buff Grimoire of Service and make our little imp friend actually do more damage and the summoned imp do even more damage.

OR we could play around with the thought of having Havoc actually do something when its on your main target, say if you cast single target spells on your havoc'd target it'll copy that spell and strike the target with a copied spell for 80% of its damage or something.

I'd like Dimensional ripper to be a higher percentage. Blizz increased it from 4 to 5 earlier. I think it could be 1 or 2% higher aswell. I like my portals and im a sad panda cause i cant cast them as much as i'd like to. or if they dont want to touch ripper then reduce the cooldown of the portals themselfs by like 10-15 seconds.

Soulsnatcher could use a look at, maybe guarantee the 4th chaos bolt cast to automaticly refund a shard at 3/3 ranks.

[Deleted]

In spite of me repeating some of the great suggestions in this thread i'll still like to voice my opinion:

Destruction:
Reverse Entropy Baseline, Replace this talent with a procc ability, say your conflags has a chance to make your next cb cost no shards or something. just something that can procc and make the gameplay less stiff (doesnt have to be my suggestion)

Cataclysm reduce cast time, dont need more instant damage but the applied immolates could be stronger than your average immolate.

Shadowburn baseline but only useable below 30% , increased damage.

Mastery reworked or made less rng somehow.

Rework mana tap. make it improved life tap that lets us cast the next spell after tapping while moving. with a cooldown of the spell effect so it doesnt get abused and lets you run around and cast all the time cause thats just silly. that way even with reverse entropy baseline we'd still have to sacrifice something (health) to gain the benefit of moving. Maybe you could even increase the health cost and not have it being a cooldown on the spells you can cast, say it costs 20-30% of your health to be able to freecast for 6 seconds or something. and that way lifetap still remains relevant even with entropy baseline.

Eradication could use a few extra seconds (pointed out earlier in the thread)

If focused chaos doesnt happen, we need some love on single target, the safest way and easiest way is to buff Grimoire of Service and make our little imp friend actually do more damage and the summoned imp do even more damage.

OR we could play around with the thought of having Havoc actually do something when its on your main target, say if you cast single target spells on your havoc'd target it'll copy that spell and strike the target with a copied spell for 80% of its damage or something.

I'd like Dimensional ripper to be a higher percentage. Blizz increased it from 4 to 5 earlier. I think it could be 1 or 2% higher aswell. I like my portals and im a sad panda cause i cant cast them as much as i'd like to. or if they dont want to touch ripper then reduce the cooldown of the portals themselfs by like 10-15 seconds.

Soulsnatcher could use a look at, maybe guarantee the 4th chaos bolt cast to automaticly refund a shard at 3/3 ranks.

Some really great suggestions there. Really would be happy with most of what you wrote. Especially conflag and mana tap

[ComputerNerd]

So, rather than repeating, just copy-pasting from another class? A suggestion that's been made pretty much every week for years? Did you ever do the original summoning questlines that taught you why this is not how it works?

Hunters are supposed to be about companions, but they simply take what they want.
More warlock than we are in that respect.
Yes, I did the original quests.