Why is Subtlety unpopular?

[Hotmail]

Because Shadowstrike teleports you behind the boss which is cancer incarnate on progression fights where you are just trying to consistently stay alive across dozens of pulls, regardless of who and where the mechanics might hit.

[Deleted]

It does only teleport you behind the boss when you press shadowstrike and are not in melee range. When youre in melee range it does not teleport you at all...

[nexellent]

because sub by design isn't attractive to low-skilled players, and it got dumbed down this xpac, so it doesn't appeal to people that played sub in the past.

[Wow]

But Subtlety outperforms Outlaw, yet only 7% of Heroic Nythendra are Sub parses. People prefer to play Outlaw over Subtlety and I cant understand why.

You can't just drop specs anymore so that holds people back a lot more and almost everyone was outlaw to start with.

Also I think sub isn't as strong as what the sims would have us believe that has happened many times before. There's enough logs of sub rogues with 880+ and boots and some even with boots + another legendary and none of them show anything of this way ahead dmg it's suppose to have. At first it was wait until 880+(mythic en) gear with boots now it's wait until nighthold... I'm not saying sub isn't good but it seems to not be this massively ahead spec that keeps getting claimed about it.

[Powell]

Depends on the Legendarie(s) you've aquired. They're such a big powerspike that the disparity between having the correct legendary and a bad one or none is pretty big.

I am basically pigeonholed into playing Assassination. Until i can get the Sub boots, i can't drop Assassination.
I wish i could go Sub, but i have the Assassination bracers and no legendary to fit Sub, so i can't swap without losing a ton of DPS.

I fucking despise this legendary system.

[Hotmail]

It does only teleport you behind the boss when you press shadowstrike and are not in melee range. When youre in melee range it does not teleport you at all...

I can handle that. You can handle that.

BUT... a lot of Rogues can't... and they die, horribly. Raid leaders notice this and correlate it with the spec.

[kalaratic]

well would you want to play an abortion? that's probably not the right way to describe it but it is essentially a failed experiment. the entire spec is designed around a playstyle that doesn't exist, an automatic shadow dance. things like shadow techniques and deepening shadows were all intended to synergize with that playstyle and now you have this half-and-half of some things that got adjusted for the new shadow dance and others that weren't.

legion subtlety as intended was aborted february 2nd of this year with celestalon's post. you are now playing the dead fetus

[Xanatu]

It's not vastly superior to any spec we've already invested AP/legendaries in, and it sucks to play. It's not more difficult than any other spec, or harder than WOD sub, so you can ditch that argument; WOD sub was regarded as hard to play and was immensely popular in raids. Sub just isn't fun and frankly I hope it stays PVE-irrelevant.

[Apanonar]

But Subtlety outperforms Outlaw, yet only 7% of Heroic Nythendra are Sub parses. People prefer to play Outlaw over Subtlety and I cant understand why.

Probably because it's easy. Even in HFC when sub was tied with fire mage for best specc there were a lot of people that played COMBAT on every single boss, even though it was by far the worst specc for ST/2 target cleave, just barely ahead of the intentionally gutted SV hunter.

[Xanatu]

Probably because it's easy. Even in HFC when sub was tied with fire mage for best specc there were a lot of people that played COMBAT on every single boss, even though it was by far the worst specc for ST/2 target cleave, just barely ahead of the intentionally gutted SV hunter.

This is not true at all. The last week of HFC I did M Archi as combat just for fun and I think I was one of like 200 parses, compared to tens of thousands for sub.

[neozz1]

It's not vastly superior to any spec we've already invested AP/legendaries in, and it sucks to play. It's not more difficult than any other spec, or harder than WOD sub, so you can ditch that argument; WOD sub was regarded as hard to play and was immensely popular in raids. Sub just isn't fun and frankly I hope it stays PVE-irrelevant.

It being more difficult is opinion, I have played all 3 and do believe it is more difficult to play in comparison (I don't believe any class/spec is ACTUALLY difficult)

I agree about it is less fun though, that's what I meant by thinking it is kind of clunky.

[Aethys256]

Please do make some QQ posts on official forums like there were for Outlaw, so Subtlety will be buffed

Besides that, yes it's not that much played but it's a good spec but with more pre-req than others. (AP Ranks, iLvl, ..)

[Blayke]

Outlaw was originally the best spec till later Ilvls (due to outlaw scaling poorly). Sub was supposed to be the better choice when full mythic gear. Assassination got a buff to then get ahead.

Sub also seems challenging for the average player, it is also less appealing then being a pirate or an assassin.

Which is odd in a way since sin and sub have always been sort of backwards in regards to the class fantasies. Poisoning someone is a comparatively "subtle" way to murder someone, whearas leaping from the shadows and driving two feet of steel into someone's rib cage is more in keeping with one's notion of the "Assassin".

[Deleted]

Why do you care, bro?

Play that Sub Rogue man, play it. It's awesome.

[AmberBelle]

Play what you want. If you raid mythic or whatever you will probably be pigeonholed into mut. I play combat and sub, I am leveling all 3 but combat is main for me and sub is secondary. Mut just feels like what BM hunters are now. I'm not saying the other 2 are difficult, I'm just saying it feels boring to me like that spec.

[lolpve]

Because people are playing whatever is strongest at the present time. At release it was outlaw, currently it's assassination. Sub is very very good and more fun than either, but "fun" doesn't seem to figure into the thinking of most raiders since they only care about logs.

[Deleted]

Sub needs a lot of ap (dps traits until lvl33) and the legendary boots to be comparable in pve. Futhermore this spec is very uptime dependent.

[Deleted]

because sub by design isn't attractive to low-skilled players, and it got dumbed down this xpac, so it doesn't appeal to people that played sub in the past.

Pretty much this. Dropped subtlety (and rogue) after first weeks of hfc when the legion ptr showed me what it was going to become. Loved the spec so much that i cut ties to it that instant so the shock from legion prepatch wouldnt be that hard for me. Assasination and combat are too boring in contrast so had to reroll.

The spec is only shadow of its former glory, and not performing well enough to force fotm people into it = barely anyone is interested.

[omeomorfismo]

maybe the players are simply tired of 3 expansion of sublety?
i'm lucky and i found a guild that permited me to play assa even in wod, but a lot of people are minmaxer addicted and could only play combat/sub

[Crispin]

I miss the days when people played what they enjoyed, not what is just currently "top" spec :\

There never were such a time.