Disc vs other healer?

[Deleted]

Hey guys,
I am pretty frustrated after every single raid.
I can't stand a chance against our Druid healers.. they do always much more HPS/Heal than I do..
Is it just because of me or disc in generell?

[Djriff]

Well without logs it's hard to give you advice. Do you have any? Armory link would help a ton as well.

[Deleted]

I am not allowed to post any kind of links

Maybe it helps if I tell you my stat weights
Crit: 11%
Haste: 32%
Mastery: 35% (sadly)
Versatility: 2%

I don't own a legendary :/

[Djriff]

You can post links with a space in them. Also just looking at your stats, your haste is good but you could probably use a bit more crit. @mend would be a good person to review logs and such.

[Saiyoran]

This is how I feel about RSham... I parse okay for Disc (60-70 on fights where I don't die) but our RSham is literally getting Rank 1 on half our progression kills (obviously top guilds aren't public logging the first week or two so he loses them eventually), and it's really frustrating. I have a 1.5min raid cd but I get to use it maybe 2 or 3 times on a boss because RSham has a raid cd for every mechanic and so our rotation for burst damage is usually HTT > AG > SLT with possibly my cd or one of our tranqs > AG again. He also gets every Innervate at this point. Really dumb that Shaman can do literally double the healing of anyone else in the raid.

Sorry for the rant, just thought this might be a decent thread to express how I feel against other healers.

[PosPosPos]

This is how I feel about RSham... I parse okay for Disc (60-70 on fights where I don't die) but our RSham is literally getting Rank 1 on half our progression kills (obviously top guilds aren't public logging the first week or two so he loses them eventually), and it's really frustrating. I have a 1.5min raid cd but I get to use it maybe 2 or 3 times on a boss because RSham has a raid cd for every mechanic and so our rotation for burst damage is usually HTT > AG > SLT with possibly my cd or one of our tranqs > AG again. He also gets every Innervate at this point. Really dumb that Shaman can do literally double the healing of anyone else in the raid.

Sorry for the rant, just thought this might be a decent thread to express how I feel against other healers.

Did you first consider that maybe your healing methodology is just sub-optimal?

Like when I see these I just...don't even know what to say.

You just randomly cast PWR with absolutely no plan at all, but expect to be able to do good healing? Sorry to tell you, but you don't get good numbers if you don't preplan your healing as disc.

Spec balance is not even the most remote and contrived reason why your shaman gets all the innervates and does a shitton of healing. He gets them because he deserves and earns them. You haven't.

[Saiyoran]

Can you explain where I should be casting Radiance on Ilgynoth?
There is the burst of 10 at the beginning that I attempt to spam Radiance before into Light's Wrath (though 9 out of 10 pulls it gets sniped due to every other raid cd going on, so I'm not even sure its worth using), and the burst of 8 in the second P1 where I can do the same, but the rest of the fight is just ticking damage from 1 stack constantly happening, and burst on single targets from Spew. I'm radiancing whenever people are low hp just to contribute but I don't honestly see a "big burst" window that everyone talks about outside of the two instances in the fight where we kill more than 1 at a time. The last explosion spam is from us calling it as it happened since we were behind and needed to get into the eye, so I can't really have prepared for that. I attempted on some pulls to set up a burst for Death Blossom but it doesn't do enough damage to justify trying to burn mana on either, I just end up overhealing.

The other option I see is to just not radiance outside of the two big bursts and instead spot heal, but on pulls where I tried that during progress my healing was even lower.

Cenarius I don't really understand why you're picking out, I spam all my mana during P1 casting radiances and Penance on CD, rapture before the Stomp with Light's Wrath, then keep spamming radiance and penance on cd during wisps... and then I afk and dps the boss since there's nothing to heal in last phase. My healing on Cenarius was fine for the most part imo. Is there something in particular I'm doing wrong in that phase?

EDIT: The kill you linked I used Rapture into just regular dps rotation against the stomp since we were dying more to wisps. I can move Light's Wrath to there instead, but I'm not sure what I'd do during wisp explosions instead besides just radiance spam and penance/keep ptw up. It happens slightly sooner than 1:30 after stomp so I don't have LW for both.

[PosPosPos]

Can you explain where I should be casting Radiance on Ilgynoth?
There is the burst of 10 at the beginning that I attempt to spam Radiance before into Light's Wrath (though 9 out of 10 pulls it gets sniped due to every other raid cd going on, so I'm not even sure its worth using), and the burst of 8 in the second P1 where I can do the same, but the rest of the fight is just ticking damage from 1 stack constantly happening, and burst on single targets from Spew. I'm radiancing whenever people are low hp just to contribute but I don't honestly see a "big burst" window that everyone talks about outside of the two instances in the fight where we kill more than 1 at a time. The last explosion spam is from us calling it as it happened since we were behind and needed to get into the eye, so I can't really have prepared for that. I attempted on some pulls to set up a burst for Death Blossom but it doesn't do enough damage to justify trying to burn mana on either, I just end up overhealing.

Okay, so why not drop a healer if the problem is overhealing? I should think this is obvious for a mythic raider, when a healer doesn't do anything during burst windows as well as downtimes.

Cenarius I don't really understand why you're picking out, I spam all my mana during P1 casting radiances and Penance on CD, rapture before the Stomp with Light's Wrath, then keep spamming radiance and penance on cd during wisps... and then I afk and dps the boss since there's nothing to heal in last phase. My healing on Cenarius was fine for the most part imo. Is there something in particular I'm doing wrong in that phase?

Oh, how about the fact you are randomly casting PWR instead of chain casting them neatly lining up with fight mechanics?

Now just contrast to what you did: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...false%24210279

The difference is night and day.

EDIT: The kill you linked I used Rapture into just regular dps rotation against the stomp since we were dying more to wisps. I can move Light's Wrath to there instead, but I'm not sure what I'd do during wisp explosions instead besides just radiance spam and penance/keep ptw up. It happens slightly sooner than 1:30 after stomp so I don't have LW for both.

Don't use for stomp? LW is better used for wisps anyway because the damage is much, much higher.

I can't help but shake my head at people whose first reaction is to blame spec balance instead of reflecting on their own performance when they find they aren't doing as well as they think they should be.

[Saiyoran]

Okay, so why not drop a healer if the problem is overhealing? I should think this is obvious for a mythic raider, when a healer doesn't do anything during burst windows as well as downtimes.



Oh, how about the fact you are randomly casting PWR instead of chain casting them neatly lining up with fight mechanics?

Now just contrast to what you did: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...false%24210279

The difference is night and day.




Don't use for stomp? LW is better used for wisps anyway because the damage is much, much higher.

We don't drop a healer on Ilgynoth because every time we've attempted the first burst without Barrier up someone dies. I would gladly play shadow or sit for that boss since I'm also garbage at shadow.

Thanks for the comparison. So basically if I'm going to cast radiance I should only ever do so in bursts? Even against sustained high raid damage from creeping nightmares?

Okay.

Thanks for the tips. I still feel rsham is overtuned (I'm not the only healer losing to our shaman; our pally is the only one coming close to him on most bosses), but a specific comparison of where I'm playing badly is helpful to close the gap.

[KaPe]

I don't see why you'd want to drop a healer on Il'gynoth. It's not like you'll finish the fight earlier, as it's pretty much impossible to kill in one phase, and it only makes it more risky to survive the Dominators. Yeah, there aren't any really good moments to set up second burst in each phase and the fight isn't very Disc friendly. Still, once Light's Wrath is off cooldown, it would be a waste not to use it together with few Radiances. It should easily take care of blossom + double explosion or something.

Also, not sure if I'd agree with Shamans being overtuned... but fuck not having access to SLT... Makes some "trivial" mechanics like Stomp or 8-10 blob stacks so much more annoying.

[anon5123]

Can you explain where I should be casting Radiance on Ilgynoth?

You should be going Holy on that fight, honestly. It is just the antithesis of Disc: random single target raid damage, with very little, if any, predictable raidwide damage.

Even if you don't have a lot of of artifact traits for Holy, it's still worth it because Holy just works so much better on that fight.

[PosPosPos]

You should be going Holy on that fight, honestly. It is just the antithesis of Disc: random single target raid damage, with very little, if any, predictable raidwide damage.

Even if you don't have a lot of of artifact traits for Holy, it's still worth it because Holy just works so much better on that fight.

On mythic it's amazing for disc because of the dot applied on the raid when blobs die.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't see why you'd want to drop a healer on Il'gynoth. It's not like you'll finish the fight earlier, as it's pretty much impossible to kill in one phase, and it only makes it more risky to survive the Dominators. Yeah, there aren't any really good moments to set up second burst in each phase and the fight isn't very Disc friendly. Still, once Light's Wrath is off cooldown, it would be a waste not to use it together with few Radiances. It should easily take care of blossom + double explosion or something.

Also, not sure if I'd agree with Shamans being overtuned... but fuck not having access to SLT... Makes some "trivial" mechanics like Stomp or 8-10 blob stacks so much more annoying.

He's basically saying the shaman is so damn amazing that he doesn't get to burst nor triage. Also, dominators are trivial to handle, especially with an extra dps or two.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks for the comparison. So basically if I'm going to cast radiance I should only ever do so in bursts? Even against sustained high raid damage from creeping nightmares?

See this is your problem - you don't use your spells correctly, so Innervates are an absolute waste on you, so you don't get them and can't use your spells in a more optimal way.

Too bad you can't see that you created this negative feedback loop for yourself.

Okay.

Thanks for the tips. I still feel rsham is overtuned (I'm not the only healer losing to our shaman; our pally is the only one coming close to him on most bosses), but a specific comparison of where I'm playing badly is helpful to close the gap.

You are playing badly on every encounter I have looked, especially most recently in ToV. But nice attempt at making it seem like I am cherrypicking one or two examples, as if it isn't bad enough you tried earlier to deflect towards spec balance as the pivotal reason you aren't getting innervates or pulling the numbers.

P.S. I have 10 less ilvls than you and still beat you encounter to encounter with margins of 100k or more. Best of which, I am hardly near the top.

[Saiyoran]

Yes, thank you for telling me how much I suck. Your first few posts were at least helpful if still pretty volatile. I would like some legitimate help but if you're just going to spam call me bad then I guess the conversation is over...

[Djriff]

Yes, thank you for telling me how much I suck. Your first few posts were at least helpful if still pretty volatile. I would like some legitimate help but if you're just going to spam call me bad then I guess the conversation is over...

While Pos is a bit umm volatile, majority of the time he is correct. He is trying to help you by telling you that you're playing the class incorrectly. I highly suggest giving @mend 's disc guide a read and pinging him here or on the H2P discord for more in depth help.

[Saiyoran]

While Pos is a bit umm volatile, majority of the time he is correct. He is trying to help you by telling you that you're playing the class incorrectly. I highly suggest giving @mend 's disc guide a read and pinging him here or on the H2P discord for more in depth help.

I understand he's correct, I even thanked him for the log comparisons he posted. Just not sure why he still feels the need to call me bad for the fourth time when I was asking questions about specific fights, when in the same amount of words he could have just posted something helpful. I've read through the disc guide, obviously I've missed something major.

[Djriff]

I understand he's correct, I even thanked him for the log comparisons he posted. Just not sure why he still feels the need to call me bad for the fourth time when I was asking questions about specific fights, when in the same amount of words he could have just posted something helpful. I've read through the disc guide, obviously I've missed something major.

He called you bad because you are playing badly. You aren't playing disc in an optimal way so of course you'll see lackluster numbers on the healing meters. If you want to get better you need to prep for the damage ahead of time, unload when you your atonements out, then go into mana conservation mode. Disc is very much a cyclic healer, and you should talk to your guilds resto shaman and other healers to work with you. Disc is insanely good for healing burst phases + saving other healers mana. Why use HTT when the disc priest can just front load the heal and save it for that oh shit moment? From the sounds of it, your shaman is just wanting to top HPS meters and not play ball with the healing team.

[PosPosPos]

He called you bad because you are playing badly. You aren't playing disc in an optimal way so of course you'll see lackluster numbers on the healing meters. If you want to get better you need to prep for the damage ahead of time, unload when you your atonements out, then go into mana conservation mode. Disc is very much a cyclic healer, and you should talk to your guilds resto shaman and other healers to work with you. Disc is insanely good for healing burst phases + saving other healers mana. Why use HTT when the disc priest can just front load the heal and save it for that oh shit moment? From the sounds of it, your shaman is just wanting to top HPS meters and not play ball with the healing team.

A good player can play badly. That's the difference.

He's playing badly, but I certainly didn't say anything about him being a bad player. When people first look inward when they face problems instead of blaming uncontrollable external factors, they can improve.

[Djriff]

A good player can play badly. That's the difference.

He's playing badly, but I certainly didn't say anything about him being a bad player. When people first look inward when they face problems instead of blaming uncontrollable external factors, they can improve.

I think they were inferring it tbh.

[PosPosPos]

I think they were inferring it tbh.

Just like chicken little I can infer the sky is falling if so much as a leaf drops on me. That doesn't mean it's correct.

[xdmemes]

Just like chicken little I can infer the sky is falling if so much as a leaf drops on me. That doesn't mean it's correct.

You should probably infer that every post you make on these forums is combative and volatile, perhaps "look inward" and ask yourself why you have to belittle other players to make a point. I can already tell you that it's because you're a miserable excuse for a human being irl, but I'm sure you don't have to very introspective to figure that part out.

Infracted - Djriff