Solar Powered Desalination Plant

[Kellhound]

I assume you are talking about Disneyland? There is no way Disneyworld is 0.25 square mile.

Desalination by itself will not solve the CA water problem. The solution will require a multi faceted approach. It will be a combination of many things ranging from conservation, better groundwater management policy, better stormwater management to reduce runoff and increase groundwater recharge, changing the antiquated agricultural farming method and even the type of crops grown, new dams, Desalination (thermal, electrical, pressure, nanotechnology), toilet to tap (no more dumping treated water into the ocean), etc.

Well, I did specify DisneyLAND Resort (I.e. Disneyland and California Adventure combined).
You can forget new dams, too damaging to the environment. Change the crops will pretty much kill off a good portion of the Ag. Best options to start: Ban grass lawns and swimming pools.

[Sunseeker]

Mostly in Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Kuwait, and UAE. There has been no need for this technology in the U.S. till now. I guess necessity is the mother of invention. Our firm right now is participating in a Pure Water project. Which is a nice way of saying “Toilet to Faucet”. It is something that would have been unthinkable in the U.S. 10 years ago. Nobody even blink an eye these days.

It's something many people called for 50 years ago. But then California found new ways to steal water.

[Rasulis]

Well, I did specify DisneyLAND Resort (I.e. Disneyland and California Adventure combined).
You can forget new dams, too damaging to the environment. Change the crops will pretty much kill off a good portion of the Ag. Best options to start: Ban grass lawns and swimming pools.

Actually CA has 4 dams under considerations now. Shasta which is a dam raise project similar to San Vicente Dam Raise Project which had just been completed in San Diego County. No funding yet. Colusa which has funding already. Temperance Flat and Los Vaqueros which have bipartisan and popular support. Although, from an engineering perspective, both do not provide enough storage for the cost. Colusa is the best bet right now.

As for crops, Almond is a relatively new crop in Central Valley. Traditionally they grew grapes and export table grapes and raisins (remember the California raisins advertising?). They changed once, they can do it again.

Green lawn is already a rarity except on golf courses and the rich people’s houses.

Swimming pool is not all that common either these days.

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It's something many people called for 50 years ago. But then California found new ways to steal water.

That, and it is kinda hard to sell something called “toilet to tap”. Pure Water sounds so much nicer.

[Masark]

I honestly dont see how a solar operated Desalination plant would be economical. You would certainly offset any enviromental benefits of solar power by the sheer amount of panels produced.

We have a small desak plant here in Victoria, Australia that is supposed to have an output of 410 megalitres a day, that simply is rusting away because it costs so much to run and maintain, 1.8m per day (although, that is partially due to the inept Labor Govt and its operating costs).

It requires an estimated 90 megawatts to run.

The biggest Solar Plant in Australia runs at 100MW and is 250 hectare (2.5km2)

You don't use photovoltic panels for desalination. You use the sunlight directly to boil water to desalinate it.

The only panels involved would be loads of mirrors to concentrate the light.

[Rasulis]

You don't use photovoltic panels for desalination. You use the sunlight directly to boil water to desalinate it.

The only panels involved would be loads of mirrors to concentrate the light.

Somebody actually read the articles.

[Kellhound]

Actually CA has 4 dams under considerations now. Shasta which is a dam raise project similar to San Vicente Dam Raise Project which had just been completed in San Diego County. No funding yet. Colusa which has funding already. Temperance Flat and Los Vaqueros which have bipartisan and popular support. Although, from an engineering perspective, both do not provide enough storage for the cost. Colusa is the best bet right now.

As for crops, Almond is a relatively new crop in Central Valley. Traditionally they grew grapes and export table grapes and raisins (remember the California raisins advertising?). They changed once, they can do it again.

Green lawn is already a rarity except on golf courses and the rich people’s houses.

Swimming pool is not all that common either these days.

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That, and it is kinda hard to sell something called “toilet to tap”. Pure Water sounds so much nicer.

Increasing Shasta capacity when you cant even fill the lake is rather a foolish waste of money.

[Rasulis]

Increasing Shasta capacity when you cant even fill the lake is rather a foolish waste of money.

http://www.usbr.gov/mp/cvo/vungvari/daily.pdf

[Kapadons]

Nestle trucks out millions of gallons of California water and sells it back to people at a huge mark-up. Sounds like stopping that would be a step in the right direction.

[Kellhound]

http://www.usbr.gov/mp/cvo/vungvari/daily.pdf

So, its only 62% full.

[Sunseeker]

That, and it is kinda hard to sell something called “toilet to tap”. Pure Water sounds so much nicer.

Doesn't it though? I attended university at Humboldt and lived in the Central Valley so dams, water rights, desal (which I wrote a paper on), were a well known issue to me. My favorite historical attempt was the proposal for the nuclear-powered desal facility in LA in the 50's.

[Rasulis]

So, its only 62% full.

Right now the water level in Shasta is only 67 feet from crest. They had to keep it at that level because of fear of overtopping during a flood event. Back in march of this year they had to lower the water in Shasta because of this issue.

http://www.redding.com/news/local/bu...373160011.html

This is why they need to increase the height of the dam.

[Kellhound]

Right now the water level in Shasta is only 67 feet from crest. They had to keep it at that level because of fear of overtopping during a flood event. Back in march of this year they had to lower the water in Shasta because of this issue.

http://www.redding.com/news/local/bu...373160011.html

This is why they need to increase the height of the dam.

It has nothing to do with fear of overtopping, but of flooding out people that foolishly built in a flood plane.

[Rasulis]

It has nothing to do with fear of overtopping, but of flooding out people that foolishly built in a flood plane.

From the article.

“Hunt said the bureau has to keep a safety margin in the lake in case too much water begins flowing into the lake during a storm. If there is not enough space in the lake to absorb the high inflows, the bureau could conceivably be forced to let out amounts that could cause flooding downstream in the Sacramento River, he said.”

They need the safety margin, in case of too much water flowing into the lake during a storm, which will force them to release large amount of water at once or risk overtopping. Overtopping would be bad, because of the potential for the water impact to erode the toe of the dam.

Anyway, the point is that there is no problem keeping the dam full. In fact they had to dump some water due to safety reason. Increasing the height of the dam would allow them to keep more water in storage.

[Deleted]

I honestly dont see how a solar operated Desalination plant would be economical. You would certainly offset any enviromental benefits of solar power by the sheer amount of panels produced.

It requires an estimated 90 megawatts to run.

The biggest Solar Plant in Australia runs at 100MW and is 250 hectare (2.5km2)

THe size is honestly, daunting to think about.

To fule a 100MW conventionel power plant you need several tons of oil or coal per hour The size is honestly, daunting to think about.....

[supercar]

Well, these things are really cool and hope such endeavors can paw path for a good future.

[Kellhound]

From the article.

“Hunt said the bureau has to keep a safety margin in the lake in case too much water begins flowing into the lake during a storm. If there is not enough space in the lake to absorb the high inflows, the bureau could conceivably be forced to let out amounts that could cause flooding downstream in the Sacramento River, he said.”

They need the safety margin, in case of too much water flowing into the lake during a storm, which will force them to release large amount of water at once or risk overtopping. Overtopping would be bad, because of the potential for the water impact to erode the toe of the dam.

Anyway, the point is that there is no problem keeping the dam full. In fact they had to dump some water due to safety reason. Increasing the height of the dam would allow them to keep more water in storage.

The dam has a plenty of spillway to prevent overtopping, they are just discussing what the dam was really built for, flood control. There is little likelihood the dam will be extended, especially more than the Low option of 20' (which adds only 290,000 acre-feet). The foundation of the dam may have been built to handle an extra 200 feet, but building it would cause massive ecological damage.

[PhaelixWW]

Missed out the K, probably shouldve just put ,000. Whatever.

Thankyou for being a nit picky motherfucker.

You call a four orders of magnitude difference nitpicking? You don't think that's worth pointing out? Not everything is for your benefit, you know. Not every reader will automatically know that you just royally fucked up the number and may take it as accurate if not corrected.

But the real point is that California/Nevada has a few hundred thousand km2 of desert, also. Including several solar farms that are already more efficient than the Nyngan plant in Australia. California also has a desalination plant more efficient than the one in Victoria.

But nobody is saying that the technology is going to be expected to provide anywhere close to 100% of the water supply to 39 million people. But it will be useful to supplement natural sources of water in the future, especially considering that solar and desalination efficiencies are likely to continue to rise with the technological advancements in the field.

For example, the desalination plant in Carlsbad is already providing a cheaper price per gallon for the water it produces than it would cost to import water from outside the area.

[PhaelixWW]

Isn't California seceding?

Isn't everything on the internet true? Aren't you smarter and more educated than other people for believing it?

Stupid, inane, bullshit stories are only validated by the gullible who propagate them.

Maybe California has too many fucking people to support the quality of life they've become accustomed to. A lot of drinking water in "fly over" country.

Sounds an awful lot like jealousy to me. A lot of southern California and Nevada are just desert. That condition long predated human involvement. Is Nevada to blame for their desert climate? Arizona? Are the midwest and southern states to blame for tornadoes and hurricanes?

[PhaelixWW]

I'm not blaming anyone but it's no secret Cali is our most populous state with population increasing. Maybe a state that is half desert isn't where 1/10th of the country should live, especially with a drought.

By that logic, everyone should move out of Nevada, Arizona, and New Mexico, too, right?

I honestly have no idea why you're so bitter and what exact suggestions you have. The drought has been going on for a few years. Should we evict half the population til it recovers? Limit border crossings?

Because most Californians pre-date this drought.

And let's be honest here. Almost all of California's water comes from California. And we're in a thread talking about increasing the viability of local source water as opposed to transported water, and you're state-bashing based on a drought?

Seriously?

Like I said earlier, maybe we shouldn't allow people to live in any of the states along tornado alley? Maybe we should ship people out of Florida, due to hurricanes. And I'm pretty sure that New Orleans should be abandoned after we've been given proof of the dangers of floods.

Or maybe, just maybe, every area has its wonders as well as problems.

[Rasulis]

The dam has a plenty of spillway to prevent overtopping, they are just discussing what the dam was really built for, flood control. There is little likelihood the dam will be extended, especially more than the Low option of 20' (which adds only 290,000 acre-feet). The foundation of the dam may have been built to handle an extra 200 feet, but building it would cause massive ecological damage.

Shasta Dam was built for more than just flood control. It is one of the function. It main function is for long-term storage and hydroelectric power. Without the dam, Lake Shasta won’t exist.

Will the dam raise come to fruition? Prospect is pretty dim. The problem is dam raise is not eligible for Prop 1 money. So no source of funding. So far Westlands Irrigation District has purchased 3,000 acres to help the Bureau of Reclamation gain the rights to expand the dam. An EIR was completed also. Although unlike the SDCWA, the Irrigation District probably does not have the resources to finance the dam raise themselves.

Still, new dams and dam raising projects will be part of CA water strategy. Diamond Valley was completed in 2003, and San Vicente Dam Raise in 2014. Although Shasta is not likely to happen, they are working on funding for Temperance Flat and Sites.

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You call a four orders of magnitude difference nitpicking? You don't think that's worth pointing out? Not everything is for your benefit, you know. Not every reader will automatically know that you just royally fucked up the number and may take it as accurate if not corrected.

But the real point is that California/Nevada has a few hundred thousand km2 of desert, also. Including several solar farms that are already more efficient than the Nyngan plant in Australia. California also has a desalination plant more efficient than the one in Victoria.

But nobody is saying that the technology is going to be expected to provide anywhere close to 100% of the water supply to 39 million people. But it will be useful to supplement natural sources of water in the future, especially considering that solar and desalination efficiencies are likely to continue to rise with the technological advancements in the field.

For example, the desalination plant in Carlsbad is already providing a cheaper price per gallon for the water it produces than it would cost to import water from outside the area.

The water from the Carlsbad plant would have been even cheaper if they did not have to deal with 5 lawsuits to build the facility.