Shadow change

[Minoan]

I wish that would work for PVP only, for PVP it would make so much sense
But then I realised that is the only out-of-PVP change and I'm crying

[Tehterokkar]

I have the legendary shoulders and I comfortably reach 30-35 stacks with lotv, so it does hurt me. The nerf starts to kick in at 21 stacks btw.

And this nerf was not aimed at casuals who can't use STM to max potential. It barely affects you, maybe you lose 1 stack per void form every fight now, big deal.

Same thing for non-STM Void forms performed by top players, they barely lose anything from their regular void forms, but when they press STM, they will lose about 15-20 seconds off their STM time, which is a considerable nerf to the top end.

There is a way too massive skill gap currently between okay and insane(no pun intended) Shadow Priests. Those that can utilize STM to max will rise to the top and destroy everyone by a considerable margin(if we are also talking pure execute dmg, Shadow was doing 2-2.5x other DPS's damage during the last 35%).

[Jullyx]

This is a huge nerf to shadow in dungeons where you can reach 50+ stacks on trash or bosses where you have hero consistently. If this sets in at 21 stacks, it's a huge mistake.

Again it goes to show that they just make ranom nerfs instead of getting help from players who know about the game.

Capping MH at 80 stacks would solve most problems.

[Vained]

This is a huge nerf to shadow in dungeons where you can reach 50+ stacks on trash or bosses where you have hero consistently. If this sets in at 21 stacks, it's a huge mistake.

Again it goes to show that they just make ranom nerfs instead of getting help from players who know about the game.

Capping MH at 80 stacks would solve most problems.

I agree, mass mysteria is the problem, not voidform.

- - - Updated - - -

And this nerf was not aimed at casuals who can't use STM to max potential. It barely affects you, maybe you lose 1 stack per void form every fight now, big deal.

Same thing for non-STM Void forms performed by top players, they barely lose anything from their regular void forms, but when they press STM, they will lose about 15-20 seconds off their STM time, which is a considerable nerf to the top end.

There is a way too massive skill gap currently between okay and insane(no pun intended) Shadow Priests. Those that can utilize STM to max will rise to the top and destroy everyone by a considerable margin(if we are also talking pure execute dmg, Shadow was doing 2-2.5x other DPS's damage during the last 35%).

Are you calling me a casual for not using STM in dungeons? Lel.

[Tehterokkar]

Are you calling me a casual for not using STM in dungeons? Lel.

You never spoke about dungeons, only about Lotv. And also looked at your guild's progress, from which I assumed you were just doing raids for fun on normal and didn't care about STM.

[Vained]

You never spoke about dungeons, only about Lotv. And also looked at your guild's progress, from which I assumed you were just doing raids for fun on normal and didn't care about STM.

Cleared heroic, but you are quite right, I do not care about Mythic and STM. I do run alot of mythic+ dungeons tho, in which lotv is the better allround choice.

[Dawnrage]

You can get to 50 stacks with heroism + PI with LoTV in high Mythic+ right now with legendary shoulders on bosses, and that doesn't put you near top damage against many burst classes. You can also get to 40-50 stacks on trash if there's a good amount up, which also put you on par against most DPS and behind many others. Our AoE still remains complete trash, especially burst AoE.

This is a nerf to shadow that isn't just S2M, and not a minor one. Maybe low end spriests might not suffer from this, but anyone half decent will.

[Deleted]

I still don't get why people talk about Lotv when that gameplay is designed to multi-dotting spread aoe encounter the whole idea of this talent is to enter + leave voidform again and again, especially with the upcoming 4-set bonus. where all you will do in void-form is spam void bolts to refresh your multi-dotted dots, then leave it and re-enter it to rinse and repeat.


blizzard now helped you stay in voidform easier (for lotv)

but this is definitely nerf to S2M.

[Jullyx]

I still don't get why people talk about Lotv when that gameplay is designed to multi-dotting spread aoe encounter the whole idea of this talent is to enter + leave voidform again and again, especially with the upcoming 4-set bonus. where all you will do in void-form is spam void bolts to refresh your multi-dotted dots, then leave it and re-enter it to rinse and repeat.


blizzard now helped you stay in voidform easier (for lotv)

but this is definitely nerf to S2M.

What? This is completely wrong. The difference in dps if you can keep vf for 40 stacks as opposed to 25 while multidotting is massive. You could already stay in vf for 21 stacks with LotV while barely pressing any buttons. If it's true that it starts getting worse at 21 stacks it doesn't help lotv in any situation ever.

Edit: The difference won't be big for lotv ofcourse, but however slight it might be, this is a nerf for lotv

[Woop Woop]

When shadow beats fire mage in raids you know its brokenly op.

However the nerf affects average to good players, not just super lag free/superior button smashers.

stm needs to go and go fast.

Couldn't agree more. But this change makes me think the level 100 rework is far from done..

[Deleted]

And this nerf was not aimed at casuals who can't use STM to max potential. It barely affects you, maybe you lose 1 stack per void form every fight now, big deal.

Same thing for non-STM Void forms performed by top players, they barely lose anything from their regular void forms, but when they press STM, they will lose about 15-20 seconds off their STM time, which is a considerable nerf to the top end.

There is a way too massive skill gap currently between okay and insane(no pun intended) Shadow Priests. Those that can utilize STM to max will rise to the top and destroy everyone by a considerable margin(if we are also talking pure execute dmg, Shadow was doing 2-2.5x other DPS's damage during the last 35%).

Which is the point of spec that is targeted at the execution range because it's doing 2-2.5x less damage for the other 65% of the fight?

[Deleted]

There is a way too massive skill gap currently between okay and insane(no pun intended) Shadow Priests. Those that can utilize STM to max will rise to the top and destroy everyone by a considerable margin(if we are also talking pure execute dmg, Shadow was doing 2-2.5x other DPS's damage during the last 35%).

I dunno man. I wouldn't class myself as an "insane" Shadow Priest and I still fly past everyone in the meters by a substantial margin.

[Deleted]

I really agree that shadows needs a S2M nerf, but i disagree that this is the way to do it.. Now we once again have to experiment and find out how long we actually can manage to stay in void form... I personally think they should just nerf the damage instead of mechanics -_-

[Dawnrage]

blizzard now helped you stay in voidform easier (for lotv)

That couldn't be more wrong. It's not "more DPS" to go in and out of voidform constantly and having a high uptime on voidform. Our damage right now is tuned around mass hysteria, even without S2M, and getting to high voidform stacks consistently is more important than how often you get into void form. This is a nerf to LoTV, I don't see how anyone thinks it's a buff when they nerfed our voidform time by a good margin. There's no upside to this at all - not even if you think going into LoTV now at 70 insanity instead of 85 (it still isn't good to do that by the way) is going to be the new thing and means we have way more voidform time.

If anything, I think this is actually a bigger nerf to LoTV gameplay than it is for S2M, because S2M will still be able to hit the 3rd torrent still, albeit much harder. All this nerf does to S2M is prevent the extreme ends of S2M where people were going over 15-30 seconds past the 3rd torrent with the belt and later PI usage, which the majority of high end spriests didn't manage to do consistently anyway.

Even if you don't hit the 3rd torrent and get close to it, S2M damage is still going to be insane. Spriests outside of S2M (LoTV) on the other hand are already not very desirable for dungeons (viable yes, even in high end, but there's plenty that do it better), and this change will make us weaker in an area we are already weak at.

TL;DR - S2M still strong, LoTV getting weaker. This nerf does not target what it wants to nerf enough, and nerfs us in an area we definitely didn't need a nerf in.

[Faildevil]

The question is: How much this affect us? Just about 10% less void form duration? Or considerable more?
How about any compensation in form of a buff to mind flay/mind sear?

[Deleted]

Couldn't agree more. But this change makes me think the level 100 rework is far from done..

I think theyll redesign S2M and make it baaeline.

[alemaite]

It's actually pretty hilarious how they manage to nerf us in Dungeons even harder than in Raids (where we all agree that we need some nerf). Can't have 1 class without a braindead rotation that any ape can do because they manage to screw it up. Might as well just make every class a Hunter, we already have a "Demon" Hunter. Rework should just turn is into "Shadow" Hunters and give us 3 skills we spam so they can actually manage to make us good in Dungeons and not ridiculous in Raids.

[Deleted]

The question is: How much this affect us? Just about 10% less void form duration? Or considerable more?
How about any compensation in form of a buff to mind flay/mind sear?

Good shadows are insanely op. They can pull crazy numbers like 560k on ursoc heroic in ilvl 877. This was intended to be a nerf.

[Vargur]

Voidform’s Insanity drain now begins at 8 Insanity per second (down from 9), but will increase at a 10% faster rate.

Well good, we need a boost on short fights, excluding raid and dungeon bosses.

[Dawnrage]

Good shadows are insanely op. They can pull crazy numbers like 560k on ursoc heroic in ilvl 877. This was intended to be a nerf.

This does not affect Ursoc heroic at all. Spriests will still do that much damage because Heroic Ursoc dies in 2 minutes~, which is still completely in the realm of what S2M can reach.

I don't think people understand how S2M works, or they just don't play spriests.

Well good, we need a boost on short fights, excluding raid and dungeon bosses.

21 stacks of voidform is very easy to reach for most spriests right now, unless you enter voidform with 70 insanity LoTV (why would you do this to begin with?) and then you might finish at exactly 17-20 instead if you didn't have VoiT/RoS SW: D up. All this change does is make it so that those spriests who are doing that will instead get to 20 consistently.

For the majority of spriests doing mythic+ content, this is a nerf to LoTV, since you will still hit the same amount of stacks you normally do now, but you will have a far harder time being able to get to 30+, and 40+ with good PI usage or multiple adds anymore, which happens often in mythic+ at high end (7+) if you want to pull your own weight.