Hunter MM going suck in 7.1.5

[Deleted]

https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=QpO_guCq-jY&t=305s (not fake )

So far it looks like 7.1.5 won't be kind for hunters, which is a real shame!
Blizz dont suck and buff MM dont ignore us, you buff only mages

[Deleted]

Stopped watching the moment said person used Sidewinders

As long as that is still the go to talent, MM is dead to me.

Can't wait to see what they plan on changing, because the current live state is atrocious.

EDIT: atrocious as in boring to play, bad designed.

[Madh4tter]

Stopped watching the moment said person used Sidewinders

As long as that is still the go to talent, MM is dead to me.

Can't wait to see what they plan on changing, because the current live state is atrocious.

EDIT: atrocious as in boring to play, bad designed.

It plays even worse without Sidewinders, they have to change alot to make the class play good as a whole and I doubt they will do that this x-pac

[Deleted]

It plays even worse without Sidewinders, they have to change alot to make the class play good as a whole and I doubt they will do that this x-pac

Yes, that's why I don't play it. Until they change something, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Guess I will have to wait and hope for some BM/SV buffs, at least SV is fun to play. BM is kinda meh but still more fun than MM imo.

They have said they still need to make many changes but they keep quiet all the time (Blizzard).
They only seem to like mages lol, still nothing new on 7.1.5 for us Hunters.

[Deleted]

How does BM play? I am leveling a hunter right now and i really like BM.

[Deleted]

How does BM play? I am leveling a hunter right now and i really like BM.

Love BM - single target its very close to MM - but MM gets alot of cleave damage in with barrage and sidewinders.

But issue i found with MM as to get top damage - you need 1 out of 8 specific legedaries (namely the one that reduces trueshot aura) where the other legendaries are weird.

Where as 4 out of 8 BM legendaries are dps upgrades and alot of shorter cd on their main abilities allowing for more reliable dps ( i feel). Also as MM to be competative plays without pet, you lose alot of utility in mythic+ and if MM goes with pet, BM does alot more damage.

Final thing is 2-3 of BM legendary are usable ion all specs (aspect bracers and pet ring) are at least SOMEWHAT useful in both the other spec (once MM drops lone wolf) - and aspect bracer is very useful for both bm and surv.

Another factor might be playability in pvp . Where marks is a top comp atm in rated bg and pretty ok in arena. BM was (at least before they got nerfed quite some) top tier in 3s or so and might be again once traps are given back. But less good in rbg. Surv is sorta usable in RBG as its one of the top 1v1 specs and has traps and stealth.

Good luck deciding but its really true that play what u want based on playstyle as numbers go up and down. I found MM playstyle way too static to enjoy.

[Deleted]

How does BM play? I am leveling a hunter right now and i really like BM.

I'm lovin' it, even without the compulsory legendary. Simple, but not boring. Effective if not dominating. Every week I carry a group of old friend's with my BM. The group has 2 more hunters, both MM, both saying MM is the top dog today. Skada begs to dooken differ.

[DeicideUH]

Tuning Pass hasn't occurred yet.
I doubt current changes are the final form of the spec when the patch hits. They haven't even touched

Don't know how good or bad the final version will be. Maybe it'll be shit. But I expect way more incoming changes and I will only judge it after a few more builds.

Removing Vulnerable from Sidewinders was a step in the right direction. Now they need to fix the baseline spells and the worthless talents (like Explosive Shot and Trick Shot).

[Deleted]

Knowing the history of Blizz handling PTRs and betas, current PTR build is 90% done. They'll just throw some lazy tuning on Aimed/Marked Shot and fix the spec maybe in 7.2 or next expansion.

That'll make MM in 7.1.5 (if it's viable) choose all the passives and spam mostly two abilities, Arcane/Multi and Aimed Shot. Marked Shot when procc'd. I just wish we'd have more choices like Black Arrow, Explosive and Piercing Shot but every focus has to gather to vuln Aimed Shots and Marked Shot so that's not happening without Blizz actually giving a damn about hunters.

[keygy]

Stopped watching the moment said person used Sidewinders

As long as that is still the go to talent, MM is dead to me.

Can't wait to see what they plan on changing, because the current live state is atrocious.

EDIT: atrocious as in boring to play, bad designed.

Sidewinders its not bad designed, bad designed is that we have only a competitive build right now, you can say that you like or not like the actual rotation from hunter mm, but its not bad designed

at least the hunter mm have a feel that you need to do something similar to a rotation.

Bad designed is that we have a huge multi-target but a very mediocre single target damage, THATS a bad design, but its not fault from sidewinders.

- - - Updated - - -

Knowing the history of Blizz handling PTRs and betas, current PTR build is 90% done. They'll just throw some lazy tuning on Aimed/Marked Shot and fix the spec maybe in 7.2 or next expansion.

That'll make MM in 7.1.5 (if it's viable) choose all the passives and spam mostly two abilities, Arcane/Multi and Aimed Shot. Marked Shot when procc'd. I just wish we'd have more choices like Black Arrow, Explosive and Piercing Shot but every focus has to gather to vuln Aimed Shots and Marked Shot so that's not happening without Blizz actually giving a damn about hunters.

lol no, blizzard have said that are way more changes to talents in other builds that are not deployed atm, the change to secondary stats, etc.

[DeicideUH]

Knowing the history of Blizz handling PTRs and betas, current PTR build is 90% done. They'll just throw some lazy tuning on Aimed/Marked Shot and fix the spec maybe in 7.2 or next expansion.

That'll make MM in 7.1.5 (if it's viable) choose all the passives and spam mostly two abilities, Arcane/Multi and Aimed Shot. Marked Shot when procc'd. I just wish we'd have more choices like Black Arrow, Explosive and Piercing Shot but every focus has to gather to vuln Aimed Shots and Marked Shot so that's not happening without Blizz actually giving a damn about hunters.

I guess Blizzard gave way more attention to other classes in this build, and other classes (including Hunter) will get some attention in future releases. Again, I'm not saying final product is going to be good, I'm just saying we don't know yet what to expect.

[Deleted]

Just prepare to be BM in next patch for single target fights (especially if you take hand on these new shoulderz)
I only use MM on Heya and this is because bloobs in phase 1

[SL1200]

Removing Vulnerable from Sidewinders was a step in the right direction. Now they need to fix the baseline spells and the worthless talents (like Explosive Shot and Trick Shot).

Why would you say that's a step in the right direction? I don't understand why they're making that change.

[s0ul]

This spec is turning into massive RNG bullshit. You think the live rotation is clunky? Wait till you play their "new design".

Vulnerability needs to be removed. They're trying to mash old Survival and MM together but it won't work. We don't want any RNG unless it feels rewarding like the old Lock and Load Survival. It feels punishing when you have to rely on RNG to actually do damage. I don't understand why it's so hard to understand we want consistent damage over procs and RNG, like the old MM.

The Devs can maybe look at the titanic thread(s) they started and take some great suggestions out of there instead of trying to force their ludicrous visions of the spec onto live servers. We've been complaining about the design since Alpha/Beta.

[Deleted]

Sidewinders its not bad designed, bad designed is that we have only a competitive build right now, you can say that you like or not like the actual rotation from hunter mm, but its not bad designed

at least the hunter mm have a feel that you need to do something similar to a rotation.

Bad designed is that we have a huge multi-target but a very mediocre single target damage, THATS a bad design, but its not fault from sidewinders.

It is bad design when the talent is mandatory and it causes your single target and multiple target rotation to become exactly the same.
Also Sidewinders doesn't fit into the sniper/marksman fantasy. So yes, it's bad design.

It doesn't have a hunter feel and it doesn't have a marksman feel to it anymore.
First they say Chimaera Shot isn't right for MM and then they give you snakes... lol

[omegaz]

Why would you say that's a step in the right direction? I don't understand why they're making that change.

Because of the incompetent hunters that can't use it without pulling the entire dungeon... looks like the concept of positioning is hard for some people. Sidewinder without venerability is useless... like what the point of that talent? not only that it will also generate 20 less focus.
Sidewinder was fine, a pretty good talent that makes our spec less RNG dependent... but nooooooo "sidewinder no fun " or " it doesn't match the class fantasy" and all that bullshit.... makes me wonder if these guys are even trying to be competitive in terms of dps with the other classes.
Honestly Hunters deserve that Nerf just because of their cancerous mentality. now enjoy having no invites to raid and M+.

[Dracodraco]

Because of the incompetent hunters that can't use it without pulling the entire dungeon... looks like the concept of positioning is hard for some people. Sidewinder without venerability is useless... like what the point of that talent? not only that it will also generate 20 less focus.
Sidewinder was fine, a pretty good talent that makes our spec less RNG dependent... but nooooooo "sidewinder no fun " or " it doesn't match the class fantasy" and all that bullshit.... makes me wonder if these guys are even trying to be competitive in terms of dps with the other classes.
Honestly Hunters deserve that Nerf just because of their cancerous mentality. now enjoy having no invites to raid and M+.

15 less focus. It's still worth the same (focus-wise) as 7x arcane shots will generate, but in a single global. If people actually think we won't be picking sidewinders for anything that is *at all* related to AOE (it still procs marking targets on everything, into vulnerable - assuming marked shot not being affected by vuln is a bug last time I tested on PTR, the "new meta" for AOE is to fish for a proc, marked shot a huge pack, hope for another proc, and marked shot again at 6 seconds in to get max bonus dmg from patient sniper for AOE "burst").

Arcane shot are going to pull slightly ahead as-is right now on a single target because of the relatively minor damage hits stacking up over time versus SW only doing one medium hit every 10 sec, but assuming you have plenty of focus / SW to play around with in Nighthold (remember, set bonuses and trinket is going to give us an insane trueshot uptime, which translates to super low SW cd and high base focus regen, ALONG with using less focus per aimed shot due to set bonus), SW is still going to be the choice for any cleave encounter.

Dungeons also remain largely unchanged, except our AOE is less potent because our first marked shot won't be under the effect of a 150% vulnerable (but the second marked shot on the pack should be under the effect of a 190-205% one).

[DeicideUH]

Why would you say that's a step in the right direction? I don't understand why they're making that change.

I've explained it in several threads around here, but again: it's bad design because it turns the Sidewinders-Patient Sniper combo mandatory.

The real design flaw is the Vulnerable debuff; it is terrible. It essentially exists to make our base shots do poor damage. Baseline Vulnerable can be maintained all the time, but makes target switching a nightmare, and its damage buff is not enough to make baseline MM competitive in DPS.

Then comes Patient Sniper, which turns Vulnerable into a "high risk, high reward" mechanic. You can't maintain the debuff all the time.

However, when they gave Sidewinders the ability to apply Vulnerable, they essentially made possible to keep Patient Sniper Vulnerable all the time, in multiple targets, thus turning PS into a "low risk, high reward" talent.

The big problem? No other talent combo can compete, and it's the best for both single target and AoE. (I know single target DPS is not that good even then, but it's the best combo for the spec by far). And you can't really improve other options without making SW-PS any stronger, since any buffs to Vulnerable, Aimed Shot or Marked Shot will still benefit the talent.

When I say that removing Vulnerable from Sidewinders was a step in the right direction, I'm not saying that the "new" MM is in a good state. I'm saying that they brought Sidewinders down closer to balance to other talents, but now they need to fix our baseline abilities. They should either remove or revamp Vulnerable completely. Or, if they are going to insist with making Patient Sniper baseline, they should balance the spec around not having to maintain Vulnerable all the time (i.e.: improve damage for Aimed Shot and Marked Shot by a lot, then make Vulnerable an ocasional, not a must-have-all-the-time, bonus)

They also need to change some talents like Explosive Shot (no one uses, ever) or Trick Shot (this last ones sucks even harder now that Vulnerable only lasts 7 seconds baseline).

[Denstone]

Love BM - single target its very close to MM - but MM gets alot of cleave damage in with barrage and sidewinders.

But issue i found with MM as to get top damage - you need 1 out of 8 specific legedaries (namely the one that reduces trueshot aura) where the other legendaries are weird.

Where as 4 out of 8 BM legendaries are dps upgrades and alot of shorter cd on their main abilities allowing for more reliable dps ( i feel). Also as MM to be competative plays without pet, you lose alot of utility in mythic+ and if MM goes with pet, BM does alot more damage.

Final thing is 2-3 of BM legendary are usable ion all specs (aspect bracers and pet ring) are at least SOMEWHAT useful in both the other spec (once MM drops lone wolf) - and aspect bracer is very useful for both bm and surv.

Another factor might be playability in pvp . Where marks is a top comp atm in rated bg and pretty ok in arena. BM was (at least before they got nerfed quite some) top tier in 3s or so and might be again once traps are given back. But less good in rbg. Surv is sorta usable in RBG as its one of the top 1v1 specs and has traps and stealth.

Good luck deciding but its really true that play what u want based on playstyle as numbers go up and down. I found MM playstyle way too static to enjoy.

i wouldnt really say that BM is close to MM´s ST, but what ever float your boat i guess.

Also, the legendary boots are very good, indeed.... but in theory you do more damage having the belt, atleast now before we get our tier sets. Say for m+, given that you could choose out of the three best legendaries, the marked shot ring + belt is better than the boots. While for raid, belt and boots are the best. And about that aspects bracer for MM being good... how? for BM and SV, the bracers reduce CD by 50% on dps CD, while on MM it reduces CD on aspect of cheetah, so not really useful for MM.

[Dracodraco]

i wouldnt really say that BM is close to MM´s ST, but what ever float your boat i guess.

Also, the legendary boots are very good, indeed.... but in theory you do more damage having the belt, atleast now before we get our tier sets. Say for m+, given that you could choose out of the three best legendaries, the marked shot ring + belt is better than the boots. While for raid, belt and boots are the best. And about that aspects bracer for MM being good... how? for BM and SV, the bracers reduce CD by 50% on dps CD, while on MM it reduces CD on aspect of cheetah, so not really useful for MM.

First off; That's just plain wrong.
Second off; How do you even figure?

Boots are incredibly OP in M+, as there's usually downtime where you can let trueshot recharge. Boots+trueshot relics+recharge potential (due to low cd and running between places) makes it possible to have Trueshot up to burst AOE an incredible amount of packs - there's simply no way it isn't the strongest choice for M+, because trueshot boosts your damage by incredible amounts. If anything, you'd likely drop the belt for the ring; Remember that the belt only increases your aimed shots after each sidewinder, and even then it's not going to be by a huge amount (50% on most packs, so half of an aimed shot extra per sidewinder on a single target).