Elemental PTR Changes

[Rotted]

Go to icy veins and look at some of the rotations for specs of rdps that interest you. Once you find some create a level 100 trial and try it out in some dungeons and stuff. If you want to be super competitive in a guild thats trying to get world firsts then your only option is spriest/hunter/mage. If you just want to be semi serious with some progression raiding and be able to top charts then pretty much every rdps can do that except Ele.

Just have to take the initiative to try some things out instead of being idle and asking yourself what to do next.

3 nights a week, mythic progression, I'm playing as an elemental (when I applied to the guild, thats the class they wanted /shrug) I often come in at 3/4th, until execution phases I normally maintain 2nd to our warrior. Once we hit that phase, the other two warriors catch up from their execute spam nonsense and their DPS flies way higher than it does at any other point in the fight.

I'm not saying we're the best guild, I'd say a mix of semi casual semi serious, but I hold my own and I'm not the worst player in the team.

[Ranulf13]

Good point :
Stronger single DPS than now. Competition with other spec is possible.
Powerful nighthold tier equipment option(It's strongest Tier option in history)

Bad point :
Lose AOE DPS, and Lose strong point of Ele(Personality has decreased)
Legendery belt dependency increases
Still, spread cleave dps is weak. It is a virtue of good range dealer.
Still, Ele is a spec that does not matter even if it does not exist.(There is no personality)

You are pretty wrong on the AoE, Ele's only nerf is the AS nerf by 4% haste, and aside that our AOE is actually better due to being able to use both LR and Liquid Magma. Oh, and stronger Aftershock.

And spread cleave is a very rare niche (there is warlocks and spriest at best), and Ele still gets to multidot, and in some cases, to CL due to hitboxes. Ele is actually on the strong side, specially when using LR. Boomies, mages and hunters are certainly below Ele when it comes to spread cleave.

The legendary Belt isnt mandatory, the IF/EB build is just as strong with it as its without it, the only build dependant of the belt is meatball.

And if you think that Ele, one of the most original specs on the game, has ''no personality'', then magenerics and huntards have negative personality lmao

[JonBeMerkin]

3 nights a week, mythic progression, I'm playing as an elemental (when I applied to the guild, thats the class they wanted /shrug) I often come in at 3/4th, until execution phases I normally maintain 2nd to our warrior. Once we hit that phase, the other two warriors catch up from their execute spam nonsense and their DPS flies way higher than it does at any other point in the fight.

I'm not saying we're the best guild, I'd say a mix of semi casual semi serious, but I hold my own and I'm not the worst player in the team.

You should only top on dragons ily and maybe spider. If you're topping on other fights than your guild is bad

[Shammyrock]

Eh first PTR we got a LS build that was flooded in LS procs. The current iteration is starved. Live is likely to end up somewhere inbetween. A hard number tune is still to come also I suspect.

[Rotted]

You should only top on dragons ily and maybe spider. If you're topping on other fights than your guild is bad

Well, they're going down, we're having fun, so I don't really care if you want to brand us as bad, we've only just started properly raiding recently and 5-6 weeks ago we we're progressing in normal. Personally, I'd not have the gall to call anyone bad who was progressing in mythic /shrug.

[JonBeMerkin]

Well, they're going down, we're having fun, so I don't really care if you want to brand us as bad, we've only just started properly raiding recently and 5-6 weeks ago we we're progressing in normal. Personally, I'd not have the gall to call anyone bad who was progressing in mythic /shrug.

I understand what you are trying to say and how much DPS someone does has nothing to do with the rate of progression you are at. Don't take offense to my statement...assuming you are all the same ilvl if you are an elemental shaman topping charts consistently then other DPS in your guild don't know what they are doing. Unless your guild has all survival hunters or something with Elemental being the worst DPS in the game i'm sure this is common sense if you are topping charts over other DPS that are strong then they are probably bad so i don't see the reason to get upset over my statement.

Its like if you have a car that goes 100 MPH max and another car that goes 150 MPH max. They both race, the car that goes 100MPH wins...The driver of the 150 MPH car shouldn't get upset because i called him a bad driver.

[Kargos]

I understand what you are trying to say and how much DPS someone does has nothing to do with the rate of progression you are at. Don't take offense to my statement...assuming you are all the same ilvl if you are an elemental shaman topping charts consistently then other DPS in your guild don't know what they are doing. Unless your guild has all survival hunters or something with Elemental being the worst DPS in the game i'm sure this is common sense if you are topping charts over other DPS that are strong then they are probably bad so i don't see the reason to get upset over my statement.

Its like if you have a car that goes 100 MPH max and another car that goes 150 MPH max. They both race, the car that goes 100MPH wins...The driver of the 150 MPH car shouldn't get upset because i called him a bad driver.

Your statement was offensive, so don't tell him not to take offense. All you've been doing on the forums lately is crying and whining even though the PTR still looks like a huge improvement (even after the balance changes to EotE etc.). Go take a look at the logs rankings. We're not the "worst DPS in the game" that you keep crying about anymore. We used to be, but that's not true anymore. At this point, you're just crying because we're not going to be the new shadow priest FOTM. If you're a bad ele player and aren't keeping up with where we are on the rankings now, that's on you, but your naysaying is getting pretty tiresome.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#

[JonBeMerkin]

Your statement was offensive, so don't tell him not to take offense. All you've been doing on the forums lately is crying and whining even though the PTR still looks like a huge improvement (even after the balance changes to EotE etc.). Go take a look at the logs rankings. We're not the "worst DPS in the game" that you keep crying about anymore. We used to be, but that's not true anymore. At this point, you're just crying because we're not going to be the new shadow priest FOTM. If you're a bad ele player and aren't keeping up with where we are on the rankings now, that's on you, but your naysaying is getting pretty tiresome.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#

Maybe bad wording I should've said "your guilds DPS is bad" thought it was pretty obvious since i said if he was top PDS but apparently not and he took it the wrong way. Understandable i guess. I don't "cry" about anything i don't even play ele but being a officer in a 7/7M guild its my job to trial players. I've had top parsing elementals in my raid be bottom of the charts every single fight but they are parsing well. Btw the logs you linked me show elemental being the worst rdps in the game besides balance druid that bring more utility because of b-rez, frost which is probably the least played spec int he game and BM hunter. Keep in mind mage has fire and hunters have MM then druid has b-rez. So realistically in my eyes, Elemental is easily the worst DPS in the game because in my semi hardcore enivornment I will never see a bm or frost mage. DPS is seperated by MDPS and RDPS, not just DPS

Its pretty insane how players like yourself can be delusional enough to vouch for a underperforming spec and tell other players its okay. Like don't you want your spec to be good? Everyone downplaying the spec is the reason why it won't ever be decent in the near future because people don't have the heart to just say "well yeah honestly my spec isn't good and the patch notes aren't good either but I'm going to keep pulling through and hope for the best. Instead, they go "nah we are pretty good right now and the patch notes are looking not as good but still positive!"...Like no...your spec is bad and the updates are bad. Period

[RiiSEN]

Your arguments are invalid. On any fight where mdps has to move around their dps lowers significantly, making rdps king. Elemental may be low on the totem pull of rdps, but the fact it is range and middle of the pack makes it still better then a lot of the mmdps specs.

[Kargos]

Maybe bad wording I should've said "your guilds DPS is bad" thought it was pretty obvious since i said if he was top PDS but apparently not and he took it the wrong way. Understandable i guess. I don't "cry" about anything i don't even play ele but being a officer in a 7/7M guild its my job to trial players. I've had top parsing elementals in my raid be bottom of the charts every single fight but they are parsing well. Btw the logs you linked me show elemental being the worst rdps in the game besides balance druid that bring more utility because of b-rez, frost which is probably the least played spec int he game and BM hunter. Keep in mind mage has fire and hunters have MM then druid has b-rez. So realistically in my eyes, Elemental is easily the worst DPS in the game because in my semi hardcore enivornment I will never see a bm or frost mage. DPS is seperated by MDPS and RDPS, not just DPS

Its pretty insane how players like yourself can be delusional enough to vouch for a underperforming spec and tell other players its okay. Like don't you want your spec to be good? Everyone downplaying the spec is the reason why it won't ever be decent in the near future because people don't have the heart to just say "well yeah honestly my spec isn't good and the patch notes aren't good either but I'm going to keep pulling through and hope for the best. Instead, they go "nah we are pretty good right now and the patch notes are looking not as good but still positive!"...Like no...your spec is bad and the updates are bad. Period

So since ele is parsing at 81.4 and destro warlocks are 81.5, that means destro warlocks are worth taking and ele isn't? Or maybe the next higher up 81.7 arcane mage? Those are totally insignificant jumps and could change from week to week based on how well or poorly some of those rdps play. Not to mention that the statistical variance for some of those underplayed specs is huge: bm hunters are so underrepresented, but they're not nearly as bad as they look on that chart, and the same goes for ele shaman. It just sounds like you're blinded by your feelings and what a few statistics said a month ago instead of seeing how it is right now AND how it will be with the huge ptr changes coming soon.

So it sounds like you haven't kept up with the ptr at all. We still have a numbers tuning pass coming, and we'll see how things are then, but ele is getting some major reworkings, and they make a huge difference. Of course I want shaman ele to be great, but I don't care if it's as strong as shadow priest or anything. You seem to be so focused on being in the top three or something, and in the end it makes a small difference in the grand scheme of things. Ele is right in the middle right now, and it's going to become even stronger with the new patch. And you know what else? I and all the other ele shamans did speak up when it was too weak, and then we got some buffs, and now we have more buffs coming on the ptr.... Like no... you're living a few patches ago, and you don't know what you're talking about. Period.

[JonBeMerkin]

So since ele is parsing at 81.4 and destro warlocks are 81.5, that means destro warlocks are worth taking and ele isn't? Or maybe the next higher up 81.7 arcane mage? Those are totally insignificant jumps and could change from week to week based on how well or poorly some of those rdps play. Not to mention that the statistical variance for some of those underplayed specs is huge: bm hunters are so underrepresented, but they're not nearly as bad as they look on that chart, and the same goes for ele shaman. It just sounds like you're blinded by your feelings and what a few statistics said a month ago instead of seeing how it is right now AND how it will be with the huge ptr changes coming soon.

So it sounds like you haven't kept up with the ptr at all. We still have a numbers tuning pass coming, and we'll see how things are then, but ele is getting some major reworkings, and they make a huge difference. Of course I want shaman ele to be great, but I don't care if it's as strong as shadow priest or anything. You seem to be so focused on being in the top three or something, and in the end it makes a small difference in the grand scheme of things. Ele is right in the middle right now, and it's going to become even stronger with the new patch. And you know what else? I and all the other ele shamans did speak up when it was too weak, and then we got some buffs, and now we have more buffs coming on the ptr.... Like no... you're living a few patches ago, and you don't know what you're talking about. Period.

I tried to explain in my previous post how just pure DPS isn't everything but I think you are a 2/7M raider or something that doesn't understand raid compositions or utility fully yet. My guild isn't going for world firsts or anything by any means but from a more serious raiding PoV there is literally no reason for me to bring an Elemental shaman over other RPDS because they don't offer anything except their DPS which is lower than every MAIN rdps specs in the game. When I say main i mean fire,mm,spriest etc. The only exception would be Ele is on par with balance and locks which again for the second time they bring b-rez and lock cookie/summon which is great for raiding.

Have you forgotten that ToV is the highest current raid tier? When people talk about M+ DPS they aren't talking about +2 keystones are they? No they are talking about higher keystones...So lets talk about the higher content in the game instead of old content that everyone has cleared?

http://i.imgur.com/WN3HEz3.png

For these reasons, I feel like elemental is the worst dps in the game and the patch notes aren't going to change that. Sorry to hurt your feelings for your beloved spec!

[Kargos]

I tried to explain in my previous post how just pure DPS isn't everything but I think you are a 2/7M raider or something that doesn't understand raid compositions or utility fully yet. My guild isn't going for world firsts or anything by any means but from a more serious raiding PoV there is literally no reason for me to bring an Elemental shaman over other RPDS because they don't offer anything except their DPS which is lower than every MAIN rdps specs in the game. When I say main i mean fire,mm,spriest etc. The only exception would be Ele is on par with balance and locks which again for the second time they bring b-rez and lock cookie/summon which is great for raiding.

Have you forgotten that ToV is the highest current raid tier? When people talk about M+ DPS they aren't talking about +2 keystones are they? No they are talking about higher keystones...So lets talk about the higher content in the game instead of old content that everyone has cleared?

http://i.imgur.com/WN3HEz3.png

For these reasons, I feel like elemental is the worst dps in the game and the patch notes aren't going to change that. Sorry to hurt your feelings for your beloved spec!

Oh, I understand raid compositions and utility just fine. You, however, have been doing nothing but crying about how ele is the most broken worthless spec ever -- go reread your earlier posts on this thread if you forgot. Fact is that it's not as bad as you're crying it is. I never tried to say that it's amazing or perfect on live right now, but it's definitely not as awful as you say to the point of not taking any ele shamans ever; that's just your bias.

Have you forgotten how to read logs and statistics? Here are the actual logs for TOV: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/12
Look at how many parses there are. Do you seriously think that's a fair sample size to analyze the quality of a class? Especially with the bias and stigma that ele has (which is the only thing you've been proving on this entire thread)? Another thing: look at how many people are doing mythic Helya. The greatest number of parses for any class... is 12. Helya is literally the only fight where ele stands a chance because of mechanics, and they have one ele shaman doing... mediocrely (Odyn is a lot of spread damage with pretty much no actual aoe or cleave... and Guarm is ST, ele's biggest weakness).

My feelings aren't hurt at all. I don't care in the least if you like ele or not. Just don't be crying about a class that isn't even yours when you don't even know what you're talking about or how to analyze data correctly.

[Deleted]

snip

I think you're underestimating the magnitude of the changes coming to ele in 7.1.5. We'll all have to wait and see what the next balance change brings, but right now if all the other specs perform exactly the same as they do now and ele performs like it does now in 7.1.5 it will jump up more than a few places.

[woopytywoop]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#

3 weeks ago I finished rank35 on my doomhammer for which I had "nolife" farmed last 2ranks.
Now I'm busy on rank35 on my fist of raden for which I've only done WQ's and the usual stuff.

Do you think that any competitive player would play a spec below elemental when it has a better spec available when grinding AP with the AK catchup is just so easy? Maybe boomkins, but all others are playing their other spec. I don't know any high end raiding elementals anymore who didn't reroll or just quit the game.

The specs who are below on the chart, have bad dps or are just bad at dealing with mechanics, hence no real competitive player is playing them. I'm hoping it will change for next patch, but I don't see elemental suddenly perform much better at movement.

[Kargos]

3 weeks ago I finished rank35 on my doomhammer for which I had "nolife" farmed last 2ranks.
Now I'm busy on rank35 on my fist of raden for which I've only done WQ's and the usual stuff.

Do you think that any competitive player would play a spec below elemental when it has a better spec available when grinding AP with the AK catchup is just so easy? Maybe boomkins, but all others are playing their other spec. I don't know any high end raiding elementals anymore who didn't reroll or just quit the game.

The specs who are below on the chart, have bad dps or are just bad at dealing with mechanics, hence no real competitive player is playing them. I'm hoping it will change for next patch, but I don't see elemental suddenly perform much better at movement.

TBH, it's rarely as simple as having more dps. I could do a ton more dps as enh and have a significantly easier time (let's be honest, it doesn't get much simpler than enh, right?). However, I'm constantly being called to switch between healing and dps for my raid group, and there's always too many melee already, so I figured I'd play elemental. Plus I didn't want to switch flask for every boss.

And it's true, there definitely aren't as many "good" players playing elemental now because of the big difference in the beginning of the expansion between ele and enh. As for next patch, as long as they don't just suddenly revert all changes back to what it is on live, our mobility will be significantly better because everyone will be using icefury (unless they have the legendary belt). But honestly, I don't have too many mobility issues even now on live with gust of wind (it'd be nicer to be able to use the gcd on an attack instead, but still gives the mobility I need to do mechanics easily). But it'll be even nicer to be able to use the icefury build for mobility to free open wind totem for the extra raid speed boost.

[JonBeMerkin]

Oh, I understand raid compositions and utility just fine. You, however, have been doing nothing but crying about how ele is the most broken worthless spec ever -- go reread your earlier posts on this thread if you forgot. Fact is that it's not as bad as you're crying it is. I never tried to say that it's amazing or perfect on live right now, but it's definitely not as awful as you say to the point of not taking any ele shamans ever; that's just your bias.

Have you forgotten how to read logs and statistics? Here are the actual logs for TOV: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/12
Look at how many parses there are. Do you seriously think that's a fair sample size to analyze the quality of a class? Especially with the bias and stigma that ele has (which is the only thing you've been proving on this entire thread)? Another thing: look at how many people are doing mythic Helya. The greatest number of parses for any class... is 12. Helya is literally the only fight where ele stands a chance because of mechanics, and they have one ele shaman doing... mediocrely (Odyn is a lot of spread damage with pretty much no actual aoe or cleave... and Guarm is ST, ele's biggest weakness).

My feelings aren't hurt at all. I don't care in the least if you like ele or not. Just don't be crying about a class that isn't even yours when you don't even know what you're talking about or how to analyze data correctly.

Ahhh I knew you would take the bait if I linked mythic ToV haha. Thats pretty hilarious the exact same route I baited you into taking you took it perfectly. Btw this is a daily reminder that Elemental is the worst DPS in the game and anyone playing it should reroll as soon as possible! Lets see you try to get your way out of this one,

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...8#post43628628

"you have no idea what you're talking about!"...What have i said that would make you believe that? All i've said is that Elemental is terrible and it is.....Btw Elemental is not a class its a spec and how am "crying" over Elemental i literally don't give a damn about that garbage spec?? Apparently me saying a spec is garbage me crying?? You clearly don't know what the term means and are just a bitter little kid that gets upset when i make fun of his beloved spec!

Btw when you reroll i'd recommend mage.

[Deleted]

uhm , do you do anything else other than hate on elemental ? cause i've been eyeing over this convo for the past few days and all i've seen is you bashing on ele and players who hope\like playing ele , if you hate the spec so much just don't hang around the shaman forums?

[Deleted]

Okey help me please. I main resto druid and got 2 legendaries, got 35 in weapon, raid mythic and i cant pray for RNG to give me better items in mythic + since i am 880/885 ilvl.

I want an alt. I have been looking into all the damn classes in this game right now. The only enjoyable class for me, by just looking at it, seems to be Elemental shaman. Then you go on Forums and read how much they suck at ST and you never see one in a raid either. I mean why blizzard? why is the only class i wanna play shit? If i am MLG with my class I want to be able to top. I dont want it to be some stupid shit that at 880 ilvl hunters will beat ele just because that is how the game works.

STUPID
please say Ele is great it nighthold? im thinking of rerolling too...

[Kargos]

Ahhh I knew you would take the bait if I linked mythic ToV haha. Thats pretty hilarious the exact same route I baited you into taking you took it perfectly. Btw this is a daily reminder that Elemental is the worst DPS in the game and anyone playing it should reroll as soon as possible! Lets see you try to get your way out of this one,

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...8#post43628628

"you have no idea what you're talking about!"...What have i said that would make you believe that? All i've said is that Elemental is terrible and it is.....Btw Elemental is not a class its a spec and how am "crying" over Elemental i literally don't give a damn about that garbage spec?? Apparently me saying a spec is garbage me crying?? You clearly don't know what the term means and are just a bitter little kid that gets upset when i make fun of his beloved spec!

Btw when you reroll i'd recommend mage.

... Did you just have an aneurysm? I literally don't even know what you're saying. Not even trying to be insulting, I literally don't understand the sentences you wrote.

uhm , do you do anything else other than hate on elemental ? cause i've been eyeing over this convo for the past few days and all i've seen is you bashing on ele and players who hope\like playing ele , if you hate the spec so much just don't hang around the shaman forums?

He more or less said he's an internet troll. He doesn't play elemental shaman at all but likes to whine on all the elemental threads. If I had the extra time... I definitely wouldn't waste it on internet forums... about a class and spec I don't even play...

[Shammyrock]

Okey help me please. I main resto druid and got 2 legendaries, got 35 in weapon, raid mythic and i cant pray for RNG to give me better items in mythic + since i am 880/885 ilvl.

I want an alt. I have been looking into all the damn classes in this game right now. The only enjoyable class for me, by just looking at it, seems to be Elemental shaman. Then you go on Forums and read how much they suck at ST and you never see one in a raid either. I mean why blizzard? why is the only class i wanna play shit? If i am MLG with my class I want to be able to top. I dont want it to be some stupid shit that at 880 ilvl hunters will beat ele just because that is how the game works.

STUPID
please say Ele is great it nighthold? im thinking of rerolling too...

ST should be better in 7.1.5, you can get good burst ST now with Ascendance but it drops off hard after that. Sustain ST is the big problem, 7.1.5 should improve that with either more LS procs or buffed IF.