The Last of Us Part II

[Reinaerd]

Lol. You haven't seen how you can ignore 90 percent of Gameplay in journalist mode. Prone stealth literally allows you to go prone FACE TO FACE and the enemy will lose you.

You can turn off weapon sway, make the enemy never flank, prevent your allies from being grabbed, turn off puzzles and make it impossible to drown to name a few.

This game can get finished really quick when the Developer makes a mode for people that rated SpongeBob low for being "too hard".

Even with all those options enabled , you still wouldn't have been able to finish it in time, lets just face it as it is, it got review bombed because people expected fan service, Naughtydog was wary even releasing the first game, since they thought it wouldn't be well received it was a gamble on their part that payed off, we expect companies to be original, to be daring, to release something that's actually interesting.. but when they do, and it doesn't fit the narrative we expected, review-bomb time.

to say this game deserves a 6/10 is ridiculous, it's hands down one of the best looking games released on the platform, with good pacing. Loved the act going through that hospital. it's atmospheric as hell, is the story line perfect, fuck no.. i'd have much rather have had Joel as one of the playable protagonists.
But even with that, its a damned good game.

Games like Fo76, wow droughts, diablo , COD Umpteenth, FIFA / NBA etc, they are deserving of a fuckton more criticism then this game.

[Kolvarg]

Or that you specifically mentioned you have a problem with low scores but not blatant, overemotional 10/10s.

I'm honestly dumbfounded with the reception this game is getting, both by the people hating on it and the people completely glossing over the flaws.

/10characters

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It's as deep as a puddle. Who cares if Abby's shit squad dies off when thousands of other murder justifying wolves exist to fill in for them? Who cares if Abby feels sad about her Dad when she's killed how many parents? Oh, and kids.

The only person worth giving a shit about after all this is Lev. Good job.

Abbie cares that’s kinda the point of her parts of the game and why they show her to be a rather bad person trying to change around.

[everydaygamer]

It's as deep as a puddle. Who cares if Abby's shit squad dies off when thousands of other murder justifying wolves exist to fill in for them? Who cares if Abby feels sad about her Dad when she's killed how many parents? Oh, and kids.

The only person worth giving a shit about after all this is Lev. Good job.

It doesn't matter if you care, what matters is understanding why the characters care. No matter how hard you try you can't force someone to like or care for a character but what you can do is get them to understand why the characters react the way they do.

The biggest problem is that people only seem to care that they are upset at Joel's death while taking no time to understand why the image of his dead body torments Ellie into pushing her down the path she takes or why Abby and her friends don't give a crap about killing him.

[PaladinSum]

Abbie cares that’s kinda the point of her parts of the game and why they show her to be a rather bad person trying to change around.

You mean like Joel? :0

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/10characters

I think the game in its entirety deserves at the absolute minimum a 7. And for me it's likely an 8.5

Also Muh bigotry reviews. But Kay.

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It doesn't matter if you care, what matters is understanding why the characters care. No matter how hard you try you can't force someone to like or care for a character but what you can do is get them to understand why the characters react the way they do.

The biggest problem is that people only seem to care that they are upset at Joel's death while taking no time to understand why the image of his dead body torments Ellie into pushing her down the path she takes or why Abby and her friends don't give a crap about killing him.

They don't give a crap because everyone is a psycho. Remember, Manny and Abby defend killing kids.

They're also idiots because they didn't kill the person that literally vowed revenge. If Manny plugged her, it would have given him a reason to exist.

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Here. I'll do this. Show me where Abby feels any regret. Actually show me.

Terrible people don't feel remorse, remember. And you all said she's terrible.

[Elim Garak]

Your really blind to all the irony here aren’t you? But I guess by your own standards you lost the argument so this is all you can do.

Now you are cherry-picking with your creative out of context quote mining.
Are you implying I didn't address your arguments directly? Or do you disagree with my assessment of their quality?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Now you are cherry-picking with your creative out of context quote mining.
Are you implying I didn't address your arguments directly? Or do you disagree with my assessment of their quality?

I’m putting the only parts of your post that matter in the only context that matters. Why would I continue the engagement when by your own standers you lost the argument by using adhoms? I don’t have a problem discussing with the disingenuous to a point but even I have my limits and you hit them with your whole adhoms lose your the argument and then immediately resorting to them, laughable really.

[PaladinSum]

I’m putting the only parts of your post that matter in the only context that matters. Why would I continue the engagement when by your own standers you lost the argument by using adhoms? I don’t have a problem discussing with the disingenuous to a point but even I have my limits and you hit them with your whole adhoms lose your the argument and then immediately resorting to them, laughable really.

You calling people disengenous is the real joke.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Here. I'll do this. Show me where Abby feels any regret. Actually show me.

Terrible people don't feel remorse, remember. And you all said she's terrible.

You Could say she seems rather regretful when she finds out it’s ellie who killed her friends after she let her live. But that’s not the kind of regret you mean so I wouldn’t think that counts.

As to the things like killing Joel she doesn’t regret it she thinks he deserved it But she also doesn’t get any closure from which is what leads her into realizing that every thing she did as a wolf was pointless and what leads her to trying to turn her self around.

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You calling people disengenous is the real joke.

Why are you going to try and attribute more things I never said to me?

[Stormdash]

I always love how people say that a vaccine is impossible despite the fact that Elly is immune. If she is immune then of course a vaccine is possible. As for whether or not the fireflies would share it, that's irrelevant because we don't know since Joel stopped them from making a cure at all. I'll never understand this desire to justify his actions after the fact while missing the entire point of the ending. As others have send You can love Joel as a character, and understand that he was a shitty human at the same time. That is character depth. There is no justification for his actions[1].

Well for one thing, more well-read genre fans are probably familiar with the idea of immunities that cannot be replicated scientifically - The Stand for example. And in IRL science where vaccines aren't a wish your heart makes. It does not follow from Ellie being immune that it's within the capacity of science - much less well-equipped science than in the modern world - to replicate it. Especially when they don't even seem interested in, like, studying her immunity. She's the first immune person they've ever seen, but they already think they know definitively how her immunity works, why her cordyceps are different, and how to duplicate it, and that there is no risk of fucking it up so they can go ahead and kill her right away... because they're totally sane

But beyond that... considering how honorless they had already proven themselves to be, how dishonest and amoral, why should anyone believe that they had an altruistic agenda of trying to bring back a dead world instead of just trying to rule the existing one? No reason at all.

You realize that the message isn't lost just because the game doesn't actively punish you for killing right? The point is that the characters are taking part in a self-destructive cycle which we see in the end result, that's the only thing that really matters. It's like a story where they are trying to state war is bad, you can still show war in the story because that's the whole point of the message, is to show how it's bad by the end.

In this care yeah you'll enjoy killing but all the game wants you to do is actually turn on your brain and try to consider everything that happens and what you've done. To try and understand everything that actually happened instead of only skimming the surface level.

Except the character that suffers losses but breaks the cycle of violence ends up bereft and alone with little hope and having literally nothing and nobody, while the character that fulfilled vengeance suffers losses but ultimately gets to go forward with a pretty clearly defined sense of purpose in life and a loyal companion.

[Elim Garak]

I’m putting the only parts of your post that matter in the only context that matters. Why would I continue the engagement when by your own standers you lost the argument by using adhoms? I don’t have a problem discussing with the disingenuous to a point but even I have my limits and you hit them with your whole adhoms lose your the argument and then immediately resorting to them, laughable really.

If you can point an instance where I instead of addressing your argument attacked your person - please do quote in full. The key word is in bold. You do know what an ad hominem is right?

After that, we can talk about disingenuous irony.

[PaladinSum]

You Could say she seems rather regretful when she finds out it’s ellie who killed her friends after she let her live. But that’s not the kind of regret you mean so I wouldn’t think that counts.

As to the things like killing Joel she doesn’t regret it she thinks he deserved it But she also doesn’t get any closure from which is what leads her into realizing that every thing she did as a wolf was pointless and what leads her to trying to turn her self around.

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Why are you going to try and attribute more things I never said to me?

Seems. And that's why I'm doing this. There's no hard evidence she actually learned anything. Just feelings of maybe.

"She's pregnant..."

"Good!"

The voice of regret and remorse for being a killer.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Except the character that suffers losses but breaks the cycle of violence ends up bereft and alone with little hope and having literally nothing and nobody, while the character that fulfilled vengeance suffers losses but ultimately gets to go forward with a pretty clearly defined sense of purpose in life and a loyal companion.

This is kinda over simplifying it. Abbie much like Ellie loses every thing she had before because of her revenge she loses her friends community lover ect all because of her revenge. The only reason she has lev is because beyond all of that she tied to change because her revenge didn’t actually do any thing for her.

The game ends with Ellie at the same point Abbie was when you first start playing as her with every thing falling apart, Abbie progresses past that and had a different end point and there’s no reason ellie can’t do the same and without the threat of some one like her self coming to kill her and he friends.

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Seems. And that's why I'm doing this. There's no hard evidence she actually learned anything. Just feelings of maybe.

"She's pregnant..."

"Good!"

The voice of regret and remorse for being a killer.

The evidence would come with the next line after good where lev calls out to Abbie and she puts down the knife. Lev is a pretty literally example of Abbie trying to change as a person just like ellie was for Joel.

[PaladinSum]

This is kinda over simplifying it. Abbie much like Ellie loses every thing she had before because of her revenge she loses her friends community lover ect all because of her revenge. The only reason she has lev is because beyond all of that she tied to change because her revenge didn’t actually do any thing for her.

The game ends with Ellie at the same point Abbie was when you first start playing as her with every thing falling apart, Abbie progresses past that and had a different end point and there’s no reason ellie can’t do the same and without the threat of some one like her self coming to kill her and he friends.

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The evidence would come with the next line after good where lev calls out to Abbie and she puts down the knife. Lev is a pretty literally example of Abbie trying to change as a person just like ellie was for Joel.

No. That's someone that isn't as huge a psycho path as everyone else telling her to fucking stop.

If she needed Lev to stop her, she wasn't stopping.

Edit: I mean, that's why she listened to Ellie with tears in her eyes and spared Joel, right?

[Verdugo]

Good thing MMOs don't try to sell themselves as narrative masterpieces about how killing is wrong. Now here's a shotgun to blow that dude's chest open with as he rushes you.

You didnt play BfA? I dont blame you for that, just asking.

[everydaygamer]

They don't give a crap because everyone is a psycho. Remember, Manny and Abby defend killing kids.

Yeah, he points out that those kids were attacking and asks what the hell they were supposed to do?

They're also idiots because they didn't kill the person that literally vowed revenge. If Manny plugged her, it would have given him a reason to exist.

Yeah, the game shows why they did it. it never tries to state if a choice was right or wrong just explain why they made those choices. You don't have to agree with the choices the characters make simply to understand why they made them.

Here. I'll do this. Show me where Abby feels any regret. Actually show me.

Terrible people don't feel remorse, remember. And you all said she's terrible.

Yeah, terrible people don't feel remorse... until they do at which point they either decide to change or just stay the same. Both Joel and Abby made the choice to be better but they still can't help but slide back into old habits because that's how they've been for so long.

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No. That's someone that isn't as huge a psycho path as everyone else telling her to fucking stop.

If she needed Lev to stop her, she wasn't stopping.

Edit: I mean, that's why she listened to Ellie with tears in her eyes and spared Joel, right?

You realize Joel was the same way right? He was always being held back by Ellie. It was big part of how he grew to become a better person.

[PaladinSum]

You didnt play BfA? I dont blame you for that, just asking.

I haven't wanted to play WoW in years. Is it back to "We have to break the cycle we keep restarting after the world ending event has stopped"?

[Verdugo]

I haven't wanted to play WoW in years. Is it back to "We have to break the cycle we keep restarting after the world ending event has stopped"?

Something like that, but even more derivative and disgusting.

[PaladinSum]

Yeah, he points out that those kids were attacking and asks what the hell they were supposed to do?



Yeah, the game shows why they did it. it never tries to state if a choice was right or wrong just explain why they made those choices. You don't have to agree with the choices the characters make simply to understand why they made them.





Yeah, terrible people don't feel remorse... until they do at which point they either decide to change or just stay the same. Both Joel and Abby made the choice to be better but they still can't help but slide back into old habits because that's how they've been for so long.

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You realize Joel was the same way right? He was always being held back by Ellie. It was big part of how he grew to become a better person.

Beat them up. If it's fine to kill kids, it's fine to beat them into submission. Abby strong. Abby smash.

And it's undermined by "We must break the cycle". Not a single person wants to do that until they are unarmed and begging for mercy. Ellie pussying out instead of winning nothing while Abby gets to go to Catalina makes no sense.

And Joel "Deserved to be killed". Please remind yourself how many parents this woman killed while bellyaching about how she was wronged.

[Edge-]

No. That's someone that isn't as huge a psycho path as everyone else telling her to fucking stop.

If she needed Lev to stop her, she wasn't stopping.

Edit: I mean, that's why she listened to Ellie with tears in her eyes and spared Joel, right?

Almost like...it's through connections with other characters that the playable characters grow? Not really a novel or unique concept, and literally a big part of the first game.