The Last of Us Part II

[Tech614]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unchar..._Among_Thieves
She directed UC2 and was one of the main writers. I know he was the lead designer, but that post made it sound like Amy Hennig was not involved with UC2.

EDIT:

I am not saying I disagree with your assessment of Druckman's successes btw.

Read the post again mate... I said she had nothing to do with TLOU, I never said she had nothing to do with UC2 only that she was not in charge of it. Dude literally said she was a major reason for TLOU being good when I'm pretty sure she is only in the special thanks section of the credits for that game.

[tehealadin]

Read the post again mate... I said she had nothing to do with TLOU, I never said she had nothing to do with UC2 only that she was not in charge of it. Dude literally said she was a major reason for TLOU being good when I'm pretty sure she is only in the special thanks section of the credits for that game.

I did read it mate, you said her team made UC1 and 3, Druckman's made 2, that can easily be interpreted as she had nothing to do with UC2.

[Tech614]

I did read it mate, you said her team made UC1 and 3, Druckman's made 2, that can easily be interpreted as she had nothing to do with UC2.

Ok so we're just making shit up and putting words in the post that don't exist now?

I guess you got to dig hard for those gotcha moments these days.

[tehealadin]

Ok so we're just making shit up and putting words in the post that don't exist now?

I guess you got to dig hard for those gotcha moments these days.

I wasn't trying to gotcha anything. Your post is there mate, stop getting salty because you made a statement that didn't accurately reflect the point you were trying to make. Your wording made it sound is if you were saying Amy Hennig wasn't involved with UC2

Amy Henning had nothing to do with TLOU1. When Amy Henning was at ND they had 2 teams, her team made Uncharted 1, Uncharted 3 and started work on Uncharted 4. Druckman's team made Uncharted 2, TLOU and ND was merged back into 1 team and he took over Uncharted 4 as well.

, it isn't making shit up, or unreasonable to take that conclusion from that post, just because you didn't intend it to be read that way doesn't mean I am trying to "gotcha!" because I did interpret it that way, or cannot read, plenty will have taken that interpretation, as I said in that post, I don't disagree with you about Druckman's team and their success so there is nothing to gotcha, you clarified it more in your previous response, saying she was involved just not leading, this is what you meant, fair enough.

[zealo]

If there ends up being a creative shift between UC4 and TLOU and now, I think the factor there is more that Bruce Straley left Naughty Dog in 2017. He was co-game director on both of those together with Neil, and that obviously has changed for TLOU2.

[Tech614]

it isn't making shit up

Thanks for proving it is, because unless you can direct quote me saying she had nothing to do with UC2 you in fact made shit up and put words in my mouth.

[tehealadin]

Thanks for proving it is, because unless you can direct quote me saying she had nothing to do with UC2 you in fact made shit up and put words in my mouth.

I am not. As I said, it was a fair interpretation. Look dude, I didn't bring it up to pick a fight or anything (I wouldn't have mentioned that I didn't disagree with your opinions on Druckman), it was that your post made it sound like you were saying she wasn't involved, and I was simply correcting. You clarified your statement (by adding info that was missing from the original) and I said fair enough. Stop getting your back up. You don't need to have said the words "she has nothing to do with UC2", you said her team made UC1 and 3, Druckman's made UC2 etc, with no mention of her work on UC2, so it isn't unreasonable to interpret your post as making out that she wasn't involved with UC2, if you can't see that then you are either just being salty or your comprehension of the English language is very poor, and I really don't think it is the latter. If you want people to take your point, then say it, and avoid such ambiguity in your language, if you make ambiguous statements and people take a different meaning from the one intended, then be annoyed at yourself. You not articulating yourself properly is not me putting words in your mouth. Just because you didn't intend this meaning to be taken does not mean words are getting put in your mouth. There is a difference between willful misinterpretation of your words (which clearly didn't happen here) and making a valid inference as a result of ambiguity in the statement (which did happen here).

I get it, you are in this thread pissed off, there are people who don't see things the way you do and it makes you mad, and to be honest, I get some of that when you see some of the opinions and arguments being made, and the way they are given, but not every quote of a post you made is an attempt to "gotcha!" or to engage in a combative dialogue. And I also get it, it is annoying when you make a post with intended meaning X, but someone reads it as Y, however since there was clear ambiguity (if you still deny this then you are just being unreasonable and childish at this point) in the post, reading it as Y is not unreasonable, it is not an attack (I added that I agreed with you on Druckman, that should have been enough of a hint that I wasn't trying to attack you), and I get it that it is easy to just say fuck it and double down, rather than admit that said ambiguity existed and therefore concede that the interpretation as Y wasn't necessarily an attack, or anything else malicious, because you have been stuck in attack mode (and not always without good reason).

I have really laboured that point, I know it was pointless, I won't labour it anymore.

[Witchblade77]

If there ends up being a creative shift between UC4 and TLOU and now, I think the factor there is more that Bruce Straley left Naughty Dog in 2017. He was co-game director on both of those together with Neil, and that obviously has changed for TLOU2.

yeah, pretty much. in interviews Neil mentioned that Bruce was a sort of tempering "lets not make it too dark" influence on Neil when they were working together.

that said, I have just read blood, sweat and pixels and one of the chapters is specifically about development of uncharted 4. according to that chapter, Neil and Bruce, especially Bruce - didn't actualy want to work on Uncharted 4. Bruce especially was so exhausted by the crunch of TLOU that he wanted to take a break the moment they were done with "left behind" unfortunately Uncharted 4 was hitting development snags and fresh of success of the last of us, execs wanted that team to come in and help uncharted along. they kept pulling more and more TLOU team members to help along with uncharted and eventually roped in Neil and Bruce as well.

I love Amy Henning to pieces, I think she is brilliant and unpopular opinion, of the 4 uncharted, 1 and 3 are STILL my faves, in part because 2 has that train and village tank sequences that i personaly loath playing through and 4 has Sam Drake who kinda annoys me to be honest, but I digress. I think crunch got to Amy Henning to the point where she couldn't properly lead the development of U4 anymore (and bear in mind she is not a spring chicken anymore either) and based on a lot of her subsequent interviews, I honestly genuinely think she left ND because she couldn't manage that crunch culture anymore. she was slipping and she knew it.

but back to the last of us... I think Neil's new co-writer should be able to fill that "this is too dark, reign it in old boy" deal that Neil has going on. I hope. she seems to come across that way on twitter at least. but I guess we shall see soon enough.

I know we have the leaks and all, but we don't have full game. we don't have the little in between the cutscenes interaction details that lightened up and humanized so much of first game. so I'm in the end reserving judgement including on what the game's overall tone is until I personaly get to experience the entirety of the game.

[tehealadin]

I love Amy Henning to pieces, I think she is brilliant and unpopular opinion, of the 4 uncharted, 1 and 3 are STILL my faves, in part because 2 has that train and village tank sequences that i personaly loath playing through and 4 has Sam Drake who kinda annoys me to be honest, but I digress. I think crunch got to Amy Henning to the point where she couldn't properly lead the development of U4 anymore (and bear in mind she is not a spring chicken anymore either) and based on a lot of her subsequent interviews, I honestly genuinely think she left ND because she couldn't manage that crunch culture anymore. she was slipping and she knew it.

She is one of my favourite people in the industry, one of the first names that I actually learned after playing the Legacy of Kain games, which I adored. Arguably one of the most influential in gaming, I'd argue that her work on LoK helped break ground on the idea of narrative driven console games. Outside of Japanese games and PC games, during the early to late 90s, you didn't get many western developed games with a strong focus on plot, as well as getting proper voice actors in to help bring them to life, she clearly appreciated what this could do to enhance a game.

I suppose all we can really do is wait for it. I still stick by my initial disappointment, I will still hold off the pre order I was going to get, till I see some reviews from reviewers that I like. It seems really bold, it has the potential to provide a staggering and thought provoking narrative experience. The problem ultimately is with me, I just don't think I am emotionally ready for the direction they want to take it. When reviews come in, I want to get an idea of the overall tone, if there is enough to counter balance things, or if they just go all out with the bleakness of it. Again, I am not saying the latter is bad, on many levels I appreciate it and I do think it is bold, only that I fear it is just too heavy for me at this point in time, sitting in lockdown, there is enough depressing shit going on in the world.

[Witchblade77]

She is one of my favourite people in the industry, one of the first names that I actually learned after playing the Legacy of Kain games, which I adored. Arguably one of the most influential in gaming, I'd argue that her work on LoK helped break ground on the idea of narrative driven console games. Outside of Japanese games and PC games, during the early to late 90s, you didn't get many western developed games with a strong focus on plot, as well as getting proper voice actors in to help bring them to life, she clearly appreciated what this could do to enhance a game.

I suppose all we can really do is wait for it. I still stick by my initial disappointment, I will still hold off the pre order I was going to get, till I see some reviews from reviewers that I like. It seems really bold, it has the potential to provide a staggering and thought provoking narrative experience. The problem ultimately is with me, I just don't think I am emotionally ready for the direction they want to take it. When reviews come in, I want to get an idea of the overall tone, if there is enough to counter balance things, or if they just go all out with the bleakness of it. Again, I am not saying the latter is bad, on many levels I appreciate it and I do think it is bold, only that I fear it is just too heavy for me at this point in time, sitting in lockdown, there is enough depressing shit going on in the world.

awesome thing about Amy Henning is that she is full package. She understands how important the narrative is but she also understands how important the gameplay is so she works on constantly blending the two as much as possible. I also genuinely believe that Neil learned a LOT from her and the last of us wouldn't be the game that it was without influence of how uncharted through Amy Henning blended narrative into its gameplay.

and i totally get it. i mean... it took me years. YEARS before I was able to play the last of us. its not as bleak as "The Road" but its in some ways darker then the narrative that inspired it ("Children of men" - not making this one up, Neil is on record saying that Children of men inspired the last of us).

for me at least, perversely, the darker the life around me is, the more cathartic the darker narratives are. when things are going good, I am not in a right state of mind to enjoy something darker at all. TLOU 2 may still end up too dark for me for all I know. I may end up having issues with it for variety of reasons that are not currently clear because full game is not out yet. its ok when a narrative is not for everyone. its IMO far better then the narratives that tries to please everyone, because more often then not it fails on all fronts and ends up being for no one (cough rise of skywalker, cough).

so, to quote my SO "as the blind man said, we shall see"

[tehealadin]

I do trust that the execution will be solid. The track record is fantastic, and yea, I think Amy had a big part in that, in setting a foundation and blueprint. Some have highlighted the politics of Druckman, and some bits of this have given me a small amount of concern, however I am not in the "ITS AN SJW TAJKEOVER!!" team, as I said the track record has been good, and I do think they will stick to their guns and not aim to please everyone. This can backfire, I remember the ending to ME3, it came out in the US before Europe and I remember seeing something about people getting pissed at the end, and at the time I thought "pfft, people are just being entitled", then I played it and it felt like a punch in the stomach. However this was more to do with how poor the pre patched ending was in its execution, it was one thing to disagree with the vision they had (which I personally did), but I think most could agree in its original form they just fucked up the execution of it, and for me this was far worse. I am confident that in terms of its execution TLOU2 won't drop the ball like ME3 did. And I think most at ND would probably be ok with people being like "the direction wasn't for me, but they did execute that specific vision very well". Well, we know there is a significant chunk that won't give them that, but most reasonable people I think would.

[RobertoCarlos]

awesome thing about Amy Henning is that she is full package. She understands how important the narrative is but she also understands how important the gameplay is so she works on constantly blending the two as much as possible. I also genuinely believe that Neil learned a LOT from her and the last of us wouldn't be the game that it was without influence of how uncharted through Amy Henning blended narrative into its gameplay.

and i totally get it. i mean... it took me years. YEARS before I was able to play the last of us. its not as bleak as "The Road" but its in some ways darker then the narrative that inspired it ("Children of men" - not making this one up, Neil is on record saying that Children of men inspired the last of us).

for me at least, perversely, the darker the life around me is, the more cathartic the darker narratives are. when things are going good, I am not in a right state of mind to enjoy something darker at all. TLOU 2 may still end up too dark for me for all I know. I may end up having issues with it for variety of reasons that are not currently clear because full game is not out yet. its ok when a narrative is not for everyone. its IMO far better then the narratives that tries to please everyone, because more often then not it fails on all fronts and ends up being for no one (cough rise of skywalker, cough).

so, to quote my SO "as the blind man said, we shall see"

Children of men makes a lot of sense. Thier nearly identical stories.

Guy reluctantly has to escort a "special" young lady to safety in a post apocalyptic type world and through the journey and perils develops a bond and learns of the importance of said special girl so combined with feelings for her and the importance she represents must get the job done by any means

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Actually looking forward to this now was just gonna give it a blanket pass as I figured it would be a boring continuation but all the silly outrage and what seems to be an actually interesting story progression has made me interested.

[Witchblade77]

new story trailer

[Life-Binder]

>comments and likes/dislikes turned off

pathetic

[Tech614]

>comments and likes/dislikes turned off

pathetic

"I can't use my typical outrage tools to tell people I'm mad waaaaaaaaah"

If the game is getting you this mad bro, just wait until it posts a 90+ meta and sells millions in a weekend. I suggest you turn out media from it if it's getting you worked up.

[Volatilis]

>comments and likes/dislikes turned off

pathetic

Yeah i was hoping to REEEEEEEE about naughty dog pandering to china by having a chinese character in it for a frame.

Game RUINED.

[Life-Binder]

Yeah i was hoping to REEEEEEEE about naughty dog pandering to china by having a chinese character in it for a frame.

Game RUINED.

"I can't use my typical outrage tools to tell people I'm mad waaaaaaaaah"

If the game is getting you this mad bro, just wait until it posts a 90+ meta and sells millions in a weekend. I suggest you turn out media from it if it's getting you worked up.

keep it up guys

[Volatilis]

keep it up guys

well it gets pretty boring.

Its the same old outrage culture. And its even more annoying because the game isnt even out and infomation was illegally hacked and 12 year olds on the internet think they are cool by repeating the same shit because they think they are being cool or naughty or whatever.

If you are actually interested in the game you will play it and judge it for yourself not what youtubers are doing to struggle on youtubes algorithms and make what they can.

[Life-Binder]

yeah putting a dislike on a video is outrage culture