[Movie] Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[PACOX]

None of that even matters when it comes to your original point. The Jedi were not out of line when protecting the Republic from the threat posed by the CIS. No one is arguing that they were not manipulated into starting the war but the fact remains that the Trade Federation tried to assassinate the leader of another planet and then joined forces with other systems to try and overthrow the existing government.

The Jedi felt the need to politicize their power, thats where their fault lies. The sovereignty of the Republic wasn't being threatened besides the systems that wanted independence. The Jedi werent the private of army of the Republic nor politicans, so they had no say in what was an internal conflict. They felt something was off and fought anyway. Sidious knew the Jedi had too much pride and too arrogant to back down from a fight.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

The Jedi felt the need to politicize their power, thats where their fault lies. The sovereignty of the Republic wasn't being threatened besides the systems that wanted independence. The Jedi werent the private of army of the Republic nor politicans, so they had no say in what was an internal conflict. They felt something was off and fought anyway. Sidious knew the Jedi had too much pride and too arrogant to back down from a fight.

As I understand it, the Jedi didn't politicize their power; the Republic incorporated them into their government over time. In the opening crawl of the Phantom Menance, the Chancellor dispatches two Jedi masters to resolve the confrontation over Naboo. This implies that the Jedi are apart of the Republic government and valued as agents. Furthermore, Star Wars the Clone Wars shows many a time the Republic using the Jedi as their agents, be it as ambassadors, generals, or negotiating trade deals. To me, it looks like the Jedi are apart of the Republic. I see no reason why they wouldn't fight the Republic's enemies like the CIS.

[Fayolynn]

The Jedi felt the need to politicize their power, thats where their fault lies. The sovereignty of the Republic wasn't being threatened besides the systems that wanted independence. The Jedi werent the private of army of the Republic nor politicans, so they had no say in what was an internal conflict. They felt something was off and fought anyway. Sidious knew the Jedi had too much pride and too arrogant to back down from a fight.

Again, its not politicizing their power if they are defending the government from an external threat. Politicizing their power would be them being part of the political process; voting on policies, picking the chancellor. The CIS was not an internal conflict, they seceded and attack the head of state. That is as external as threat get.

[Shadowferal]

tweet from rian johnson, what a standardized bs reply.. The petition is growing, past 50k Financially not doing well n I predict Solo movie will do much worse..

This image is telling:

[PACOX]

As I understand it, the Jedi didn't politicize their power; the Republic incorporated them into their government over time. In the opening crawl of the Phantom Menance, the Chancellor dispatches two Jedi masters to resolve the confrontation over Naboo. This implies that the Jedi are apart of the Republic government and valued as agents. Furthermore, Star Wars the Clone Wars shows many a time the Republic using the Jedi as their agents, be it as ambassadors, generals, or negotiating trade deals. To me, it looks like the Jedi are apart of the Republic. I see no reason why they wouldn't fight the Republic's enemies like the CIS.

A separate group in allegiance with the Republic. The Republic could call in the Jedi but ultimately had a in the matter.

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Again, its not politicizing their power if they are defending the government from an external threat. Politicizing their power would be them being part of the political process; voting on policies, picking the chancellor. The CIS was not an internal conflict, they seceded and attack the head of state. That is as external as threat get.

If mean attacking Palpatine, the war in high gear by then, all is fair in love and war
If you mean Padme, meh, whats one Senator to get your point across. The Republic was a terrible institution that hid behind is weak excuse for democracy. People wouldve never accepted the Empire if the Republic was doing a piss poor job.

[Kathranis]

It's a bit late, but I thought I'd go ahead and post up my overall thoughts of the movie, now that I've had about a week to think it over.


There's a lot of individual elements I liked, but the structure of the story as a whole is a complete mess and there's a ton of ultimately inconsequential filler padding out the runtime, which could and probably should have been cut. The cast is for the most part solid and likeable, but the movie didn't really do anything to make me care about many of the characters.

I get the impression that Johnson was more interested in subverting audience expectations than in paying off stuff that was setup in the prequel, and he didn't really set much up that can be paid off in the sequel. He certainly differentiated it from Empire, but to the detriment of the trilogy as a whole. He essentially wiped the pieces off the board and left Abrams to reset it in the opening crawl for Episode IX.

I came out of the movie liking Rey more than I did in The Force Awakens, which I think can be attributed partially if not completely to her having more interesting and impactful characters to interact with. While I'm not entirely sold on this jaded, tired version of Luke, Mark Hamill acted the hell out of it and made it work. Kylo Ren remains the most compelling character in the trilogy, with a unique and unusual disposition and an interesting screen presence. Poe is perhaps the only character in the sequels who actually feels like a real Star Wars character, one who wouldn't have been out of place in the Classic Trilogy.

Everyone else was... whatever. Finn and Rose were stuck in a boring B Plot because they "needed something to do," and their romance felt extremely forced. Holdo was a big jumble of poor writing tropes, and most of the conflict in the movie could have been avoided if she had just spoken to Poe instead of keeping everything to herself -- also just not a huge fan of Laura Dern, it never felt like she was really inhabiting the character. Hux is a joke. Snoke was turned into a big nothing.

For the most part I really enjoyed everything that went on between Kylo Ren, Rey, and Luke, though the force connection between the pair seemed like a writer's crutch that Johnson devised because he wanted them to share dialogue but needed them to be kept seperate for plot reasons. I think my favorite scene in the movie is when Rey confronted Luke about the moment that Ren turned, which was incredibly well-acted and well-executed.

Overall, the action scenes were excellent, and the overall production design was stellar, just as it was in The Force Awakens and Rogue One, with the exception of the casino, which felt at best out of place, and at worst like the worst parts of the prequels. It's always extremely frustrating to me that they have such a huge budget and can do such amazing things visually, but constantly fumble their scripts, which is both the most important and cheapest thing to get right.

I had no problem with Luke's force projection, though I feel like the death was mistimed. Everything felt like it was setting up for him to have a continued presence in the next installment. The death itself -- watching the twin suns set -- was well executed, but just felt rushed within the context of this movie. I would have much rather he clung to life, even if he died early on in Episode IX. It just seemed out of place.

Likewise, I liked the execution of Snoke's death and Kylo Ren's betrayal, but it feels like a moment better suited to Episode IX. There's nothing about Kylo Ren or Hux as presented in the movies that leads me to believe they'll be able to hold the reigns of the First Order. To the contrary, they were often depicted as inept, childish, and ill-suited to command. The only thing intimidating about the pair is Kylo Ren's emotional instability. All-in-all, for me it just underminds the First Order as a credible threat.

So, all in all, a bad script that undermined what little story structure Abrams established in TFA while establishing very little to propel the plot of the next film, but from production design, casting, and cinematography perspective, it was well-executed. An ugly script with pretty pictures wrapped around it.


I can't say I'm especially interested in Episode IX, based on where Episode VIII left off, except to see how they try and spin what they have left into a film that actually works and culminates in a satisfying conclusion. Knowing from interviews and tweets that they went into these films without any sort of grand vision for the trilogy really just kills my interest in the story. Why should I care about what direction the story is going in when the people making it don't?

[Fayolynn]

If mean attacking Palpatine, the war in high gear by then, all is fair in love and war
If you mean Padme, meh, whats one Senator to get your point across. The Republic was a terrible institution that hid behind is weak excuse for democracy. People wouldve never accepted the Empire if the Republic was doing a piss poor job.

And what does this have to do with the Jedi not being allowed to defend the Republic from an external threat? Are you every actually going to make a point or are you just going to dance around it.

Again the facts are:
The Jedi were Guardians of the Republic
The CIS broke away from the Republic
The CIS then attempted the assassination of the head of state of a member of the republic
The CIS was massing an army of Battle Droids to wage war against the republic

So why were the Jedi wrong in taking action against an external threat to the Republic who was openly aggressive?

Please keep in mind the quality of the government of the Republic, who convinced the CIS to take the actions they did, the fact that Sidious was pulling everyone's strings have no bearing on the above facts.

[Mace]

One side winning and exterminating the other isn't "balance". Avoiding darker emotions out of, ironically, darker emotions of fear and hatred towards them is not "balance", it's hypocrisy.

I know Lucas may have wanted things to be that way, but Lucas is a terrible writer and needs someone fixing whatever he does. Which is why Episode 5, ESB, is usually seen as the best of the original trilogy.

It's a different type of balance. When you say balance - it has to be between two things, and what one person talks about balance may be very different from what another does.

People who don't understand star wars and have arguments of balance dominated by buddhist philosophy interpret the balance in the force as a balance between good and bad. It's not what the Jedi mean, but it's a way of looking at things - and the fact that so many people jump to that outlook is an indication of their world view.

Think of balance like the druids in wow. Nature is in balance when everything is in harmony and working perfectly - attempts to distort this, twist it, or manipulate to create effects and things that are not supposed to be in this life nurturing cycle is actually harmful to the balance. Balance here does not mean the balance between good druidic magic and bad warlock or dark druid magic - the force doesn't need both to be equal in a ying yang way.

The failure of soooo many people to see this, really indicates their how dominated they are by their pre-conceived notions they can't even imagine what balance might be and will defend their erroneous view with confidence, to the extent of calling others "fools" "bad writerers" "ignorant" " don't know what they are doing" - completely unaware of the irony.

I don't think I've achieved anything by bothering to respond - I guess there is also irony in there for me.

[Jotaux]

Empire Strikes Back is one of the least popular of the original trilogy, like most middle movies it's designed to be the middle of the story.

Kotor was far better than Kotor2 and I disagreed with basically everything you said but this statement here stood out the most. Empire is widely regarded as the best starwars movie ever made.

Financially not doing well n I predict Solo movie will do much worse..

The Last Jedi is doing great financially. Its a Star Wars movie, it could be complete shit and it would do amazing at the box office.

The movie isn't fantastic but its not the worst either. Tbh I don't even know if I liked it or not.

[Vorkreist]

Most accurate review

[Macaquerie]

Christ is there anything these days that doesn't turn into some complaint about PC/SJW/feminazi/far left/whatever? I mean, in the original trilogy there were only about three women in speaking roles, all of them white incidentally, and I never saw any women spamming negative reviews or threatening to boycott the franchise over that. Even Episode 8, though nominally Rey's story, actually gave the bulk of its story focus and character development to a white guy. Granted, he was the bad guy, but he was evil in all the way that internet right wingers consider to be positive - he's badass, edgy, brooding, and emotional, and even the critics generally gave Driver credit for putting in the best performance of the movie. So really, if you think about it, Star Wars is just as white male centric as it always was, yet somehow it's the white guys complaining the loudest, which they have gotten quite good at.

[Dormie]

[Cosmic Janitor]

An ugly script with pretty pictures wrapped around it.

My thoughts exactly, which is why I regard star wars as Disney's transformers franchise from now on.

I could see a franchise reboot in the next couple of years.

[oliviadavid]

I didn't like the last one.

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[George Costanza]

Most accurate review

dear god anyone but sargon.

[SirCowdog]

THERE ARE SPOILERS IN THIS POST(It goes without saying in a thread like this. But hey, courtesy warning policy observed)


Well, I finally got around to seeing "The Last Jedi". I went into it thinking it was going to explain and expand on some of the stuff introduced in "The Force Awakens", but really all it did was stumble over itself and generally be a terrible movie with a few bright spots.

Visually it was a VERY impressive movie. Almost every scene LOOKS good. But that can't make up for how awful the writing is, and quite a few "WTF?" moments.

• Curving siege lasers from the First Order ships, bombs "falling", Bombers with remote control box(?) that also "falls" towards the pilot. Seriously...was there a hidden gravity well somewhere to make all this work like that?
  
  
• Poe Dameron and his single super-fighter which can take out an entire dreadnaught's turrets(no shields or armor on this 'Dreadnaugh', wut?) with regular blasters, by himself, while being chased by enemy fighters. This scene was just plain retarded and completely broke suspension of disbelief. Even the cop out that "the force was with him" it would still be hard to swallow. He's not a jedi. He's shown no indication of having aid from the force.
  
  
• Rebel ships being "faster" than First Order ships, yet somehow manage to stay at the same range for literal days of flight time while main characters go to a casino. Why didn't they continue to accelerate and get further and further out of range? Again, this is a vacuum of outerspace. There's no resistance, only momentum and acceleration. Even once they ran out of fuel the ships would continue on their path, not magically tumble away back into the range of the First Order. Furthermore, why didn't the First Order triangulate and surround the Rebel ships with their fleet? Hyperjump to several places around them and close in. How did the First Order take over the known galaxy with such utter shit strategy and tactics?
  
  
• The entire casino arc....wtf?
  
  
• Luke milking alien boobs...wtf?
  
  
• What happened to the Knights of Ren? No mention of them at all. It's like the writers just sort of forgot they existed, despite being foreshadowed in "The Force Awakens".
  
  
• Wtf Snoke? Seriously...no explanation of anything. Just "hahaha! I am badguy!" Then....he's just done. Out of the story. What. The. Hell?
  
  
• How did Benicio Del Toro's character know about the Rebel Shuttles so he could turn them in to cut a deal? He went straight from the casino to the First Order ship(maybe I missed something critical here?).
  
  
• Killing Admiral Akbar...come on now. That was uncalled for!
  
  
• I'm still confused about the entire scene with Rey in the Darkside tunnel, looking into the mirror. I've thought about it, and I still just don't get it. It just showed herself being repeated over and over. Unlike Luke's scene on Dagobah, it really didn't warn her, or even tell her anything. The only message I could really get from that scene was "Don't worry Rey, you have nothing to fear from the darkness. You are yourself."
  
  
• First Order has "miniaturized deathstar weaponry", and a fleet of Star Destroyers, and yet has to conduct a ground assault? Wut? Why not simply flatten the entire mountain that the rebel base was in from orbit? Because "we have shields"....uhh...why don't the shields work on the ground then? All the rest of the equipment at the base is garbage and falling apart, but somehow the shields can withstand modern First Order weaponry? Again...this entire scene, while visually impressive with the white and red salt, didn't make any sense.
  
  
• Cute animals freakin EVERYWHERE. I mean...I know it's Disney, but come on! Cat-horses at the casino, Porgs all over the island and in the 'Falcon, Shiny foxes on the salt planet. Look...no offense, but BB-8 is cute enough to have this covered.
  
  
• Comic relief over-use. FFS...the movie couldn't go more than 5 minutes without cracking a joke. This story seemed to be going down kind of a dark path, with the rebellion being crushed, people dying, losing their way, and generally having problems. But it's like the writers were afraid to let that sink in, and had to IMMEDIATELY follow up each sad moment with a funny one. Christ...have some faith in your writing and the ability of the audience to appreciate the compelling nature of it without either dropping a cute animal or making a joke.

---------------------------

I could go on...but I think you get the point. This movie had a lot of potential, but it's so all over the place. It felt like two writers fighting over the themes of the movie, with each pulling in different directions, and both getting a say in what was going to happen every 5 minutes or so. The only real high points of the movie were when Kylo and Rey fought the Red-armored guards, but that came right after the extremely disappointing death of Snoke.

The scene where Admiral Holdo rammed her ship using lightspeed was INCREDIBLY beautiful, and perfectly executed with color contrast(the light of the rebel ship splitting the darkness of Snoke's ship), with the lack of sound to place emphasis on it. It was an AMAZING!

The part where all the walkers fire at Luke was great! Taking inspiration from many animated shows where people fire everything they have at an enemy, and yet have no effect after the dust cloud dissipates. Luke brushing his shoulder afterwords was a nice touch. But I didn't care for how Luke takes his final bow out of the Star Wars series. It felt....weak. I know why they did it that way, I just don't agree with it. :/

[Arrowstormen]

My thoughts exactly, which is why I regard star wars as Disney's transformers franchise from now on.

I could see a franchise reboot in the next couple of years.

Maybe in an alternative universe. Certainly not in this one though.

[Wilian]

[B][U][COLOR="#B22222"][SIZE=4][*]How did Benicio Del Toro's character know about the Rebel Shuttles so he could turn them in to cut a deal? He went straight from the casino to the First Order ship(maybe I missed something critical here?).

He overheard when Finn and Rose were discussing with Poe during their flight back. Poe told them about it.

[Fargus]

Empire Strikes Back is one of the least popular of the original trilogy, like most middle movies it's designed to be the middle of the story. The middle of the story is never the most terribly interesting part. It's the culmination of the events before it, but not their climax, nor their conclusion. It's attempting to set the stage for the next entry, for better or worse, it did that.

Are you fucking kidding me?

It's like you have no Star Wars knowledge at all.

[eschatological]

Likewise, I liked the execution of Snoke's death and Kylo Ren's betrayal, but it feels like a moment better suited to Episode IX. There's nothing about Kylo Ren or Hux as presented in the movies that leads me to believe they'll be able to hold the reigns of the First Order. To the contrary, they were often depicted as inept, childish, and ill-suited to command. The only thing intimidating about the pair is Kylo Ren's emotional instability. All-in-all, for me it just underminds the First Order as a credible threat.

I agree with this, but I think that's a great setup for IX. Kylo Ren is literally out of control. He's going to tear across the galaxy looking to destroy anything and everything to destroy Rey, who essentially rejected him philosophically and personally. He's a madman, and that'll be an interesting change from the Emperor and Vader's (and to a lesser extent, Snoke's) meticulousness. I wouldn't be surprised if in the end Hux has to help destroy him for his own personal safety, because I feel like Kylo is going to tear the First Order down around him.