UK Supreme Court rules on Brexit

[Mayhem]

You really have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to the UK, so kindly go away.

That has little to nothing to do with the UK, it´s about requirements and current laws, if there isn´t a law that requires a border, then why should anyone care?

[Deleted]

There were lots of debates, Boris was not involved in all of them.

And the brexiteers didn't want to talk about it in anyone of them.

Brexit for many is about allowing the UK to decide on what it wants, if that involves no border with Eire and both nations want that, then the EU should not be blocking it.

Lest you forget, the 'Eire' Is a part of the EU, likes being a part of the EU, and positively detests when the UK tries to make them do anything.
the prior suggestion that Irish border control were to treat everyone as if they were entering the UK wasn't exactly warmly welcomed if i recall correctly.

More importantly, if you have a peace treaty, and then one party to said peace treaty says that they are no longer going to hold to the peace treaty that party did what?
If the troubles are re-ignited, its squarely to a 1000% the fault of the UK, and anyone even pretending otherwise is a deluded nationalist idiot.

[Kalis]

That has little to nothing to do with the UK, it´s about requirements and current laws, if there isn´t a law that requires a border, then why should anyone care?

I am pretty sure that a border deal over Northern Ireland, between the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, has a lot to do with the UK.

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And the brexiteers didn't want to talk about it in anyone of them.

I am sure there are lots of things both sides didn't want to talk about. The Northern Ireland border should be a non-issue, as the UK and RoI can reach agreement, it is only if the EU interferes against the interests of Ireland that it becomes a problem.

The EU should be coming out and saying that they will make sure that Britain and Ireland reach a deal, they should be proactive on showing that they care about the wellbeing of their member states.

Lest you forget, the 'Eire' Is a part of the EU, likes being a part of the EU, and positively detests when the UK tries to make them do anything.
the prior suggestion that Irish border control were to treat everyone as if they were entering the UK wasn't exactly warmly welcomed if i recall correctly.

They aren't going to be too keen on having Brussels interfere on border controls that may ignite the Troubles, swings and roundabouts.

More importantly, if you have a peace treaty, and then one party to said peace treaty says that they are no longer going to hold to the peace treaty that party did what?

Peace treaties can be amended as circumstances dictate, if both sides agree to it, at some point they would likely have to be amended anyway, such is the nature of treaties.

If the troubles are re-ignited, its squarely to a 1000% the fault of the UK, and anyone even pretending otherwise is a deluded nationalist idiot.

No, the blood would be on the hands of anybody that tried to block a deal between the UK and Eire.

Calling people Little Englanders and deluded nationalists is pathetic, you are no better than those who claim that anybody concerned about extremist Islam is a racist.

[Mayhem]

I am pretty sure that a border deal over Northern Ireland, between the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, has a lot to do with the UK.

The argument i made hasn´t. Come on, this isn´t too hard to understand, you can do it.

[Kalis]

The argument i made hasn´t. Come on, this isn´t too hard to understand, you can do it.

Any argument that doesn't concern the UK, when talking about the UK and RoI border, in a Brexit thread about decisions taken by the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom, is likely not going to be relevant and, as it comes from you, not very insightful or interesting either.

However I am sure you believe you have some amazing point that you think is going to astound people with its sheer brilliance.

[Dizzeeyooo]

You really have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to the UK, so kindly go away.

the irony is strong

[Kalis]

the irony is strong

Considering I am English, there is no irony in that.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Considering I am English, there is no irony in that.

because being born in a country automatically means you have a clue what you are talking about when it comes to that country

[AeneasBK]

I might not be following very well.

If it is a pre-existing 'law' that "EU member states provide border control between themselves and non EU member states" or whatever words better desribe it, then Ireland will just have to decide whether it's worth it, surely? I wouldn't concern the UK because the UK wouldn't be an EU member state anymore. If Ireland didn't want to do this; it would have to negotiate with the EU a special circumstance or w/e to allow it not to. Which I imagine would raise eyebrows of the other member states who are expected to maintain borders with their non EU neighbours...

That said; I don't know whether said other member states are pro border control regardless of the EUs stance on it or against; maybe for them its a happy bonus...

If The Troubles reignited, couldn't we just blame the Irish rather than the EU or UK? They aren't children...

[Kalis]

because being born in a country automatically means you have a clue what you are talking about when it comes to that country

I was born and raised in Britain, that gives me an insight into how Britain works. So even if you may not agree with my stance on certain subjects, to say I am clueless about Britain is clearly a nonsense.

[Mayhem]

Any argument that doesn't concern the UK, when talking about the UK and RoI border, in a Brexit thread about decisions taken by the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom, is likely not going to be relevant and, as it comes from you, not very insightful or interesting either.

However I am sure you believe you have some amazing point that you think is going to astound people with its sheer brilliance.

You just missed the point by a mile, but as that seems to be not just a hobby of yours but more of a vocation i´m not surprised.

[Kalis]

You just missed the point by a mile, but as that seems to be not just a hobby of yours but more of a vocation i´m not surprised.

In a thread about the UK, why on Earth would you think a comment that you yourself said has little to nothing to do with the UK, have any relevance?

If you want to talk about some random shit that pops into your head, then go make a thread about it.

[Mayhem]

In a thread about the UK, why on Earth would you think a comment that you yourself said has little to nothing to do with the UK, have any relevance?

If you want to talk about some random shit that pops into your head, then go make a thread about it.

Could you be anymore stubborn?

Read Aenas post, he is talking about the very same thing i was talking about. Unless the EU are suddenly bringing up a new law about borders between EU and non-EU members the blame about anything that follows about the UK leaving is on them.

I also don´t see a reason why there couldn´t be an agreement reached between the EU and the UK but that comes with the brexit talks, up until then EU members are following EU-law and you can´t really blame them for that. The UK probably were very much in favour of EU members having to strictly control EU external borders.

[Kalis]

Could you be anymore stubborn?

Could you be any more clueless? Rhetorical question, I am sure you can.

Read Aenas post, he is talking about the very same thing i was talking about. Unless the EU are suddenly bringing up a new law about borders between EU and non-EU members the blame about anything that follows about the UK leaving is on them.

I also don´t see a reason why there couldn´t be an agreement reached between the EU and the UK but that comes with the brexit talks, up until then EU members are following EU-law and you can´t really blame them for that. The UK probably were very much in favour of EU members having to strictly control EU external borders.

It was GoblinP who said it would affect the Northern Ireland situation, I have stated I don't believe the EU will interfere.

This is an internal border issue within the island of Ireland. It is a matter for the Irish and British Governments to thrash out between themselves and if the EU interfere to halt that, then that is on the EU.

I ask you the same question I asked GoblinP, is the purpose of the EU to help or hinder member states? If it is to help, then they should be doing everything in their power to make sure that the Northern Ireland issue reaches a conclusion that both the UK and Ireland are satisfied with and if that means the EU has to compromise, then so be it. Any institution that is so inflexible it can't create exemptions to prevent terrorism is not one worth having.

[Mayhem]

It was GoblinP who said it would affect the Northern Ireland situation, I have stated I don't believe the EU will interfere.

This is an internal border issue within the island of Ireland. It is a matter for the Irish and British Governments to thrash out between themselves and if the EU interfere to halt that, then that is on the EU.

I ask you the same question I asked GoblinP, is the purpose of the EU to help or hinder member states? If it is to help, then they should be doing everything in their power to make sure that the Northern Ireland issue reaches a conclusion that both the UK and Ireland are satisfied with and if that means the EU has to compromise, then so be it. Any institution that is so inflexible it can't create exemptions to prevent terrorism is not one worth having.

I don´t disagree, i was talking about who to blame in the first place. Since the UK should be aware of the current EU laws it´s on them if they do something that ultimately means Ireland has to do something required by current EU law. That however doesn´t mean the EU and the UK shouldn´t do everything needed to ease upcoming tensions.

[Deleted]

I am sure there are lots of things both sides didn't want to talk about. The Northern Ireland border should be a non-issue, as the UK and RoI can reach agreement, it is only if the EU interferes against the interests of Ireland that it becomes a problem.

Kalis, the UK is leaving the EU, The customs union and the as far as i understand it the ECHR - They are literally torching the good Friday accords - If this blows back, its not the EU's fault.

They aren't going to be too keen on having Brussels interfere on border controls that may ignite the Troubles, swings and roundabouts.

Brussels isn't interfering, its the UK asking Ireland to change to conform to the UK, possibly in ways Ireland cannot do since they agreed in treaties not to change those things.
Its beyond fucking ridiculous to unilaterally tear up a peace treaty and then blame the other side for not re-negotiating it to suit their needs.

No, the blood would be on the hands of anybody that tried to block a deal between the UK and Eire.

It is quite possible that Ireland is unable to comply with whatever nonsese the UK dreams would happen, if so it remains the fault of the UK, because again:
They are literally torching the good Friday accords.

Calling people Little Englanders and deluded nationalists is pathetic, you are no better than those who claim that anybody concerned about extremist Islam is a racist.

Its beyond fucking ridiculous to unilaterally tear up a peace treaty and then blame the other side for not re-negotiating it to suit their needs.

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I might not be following very well.

The current scheme lets everyone pretend N.Ireland is a part of the UK, and a part of Ireland at the same time, because there is no border, you can work on both sides of the non-border, and everyone cant continue with this pretense forever.
Until the UK decides to put up a border to control migration and customs, like the Brexiters want to do.
But apparently, those people getting exactly what they want (to have a border with the EU) is actually somehow, magically, the fault of the EU in regards to there being a border in Ireland.
its as if those people think that Ireland is still a part of the UK and should leave the EU with them.

[Mormolyce]

Man I hope they hurry up, the NHS just can't wait to get that £350 million per week.

Many people here make the presumption, unlike sane people in the real world, that the EU will even exist 12 months from now.

Bet you $100 the EU still exists in 12 months.

You in?

Thought so.

[Kalis]

Kalis, the UK is leaving the EU, The customs union and the as far as i understand it the ECHR - They are literally torching the good Friday accords - If this blows back, its not the EU's fault.

You're missing the point, the UK and Ireland can still stick to the terms of the border policy, as long as the EU don't try to block Ireland from doing so.

Brussels isn't interfering, its the UK asking Ireland to change to conform to the UK, possibly in ways Ireland cannot do since they agreed in treaties not to change those things.
Its beyond fucking ridiculous to unilaterally tear up a peace treaty and then blame the other side for not re-negotiating it to suit their needs.

Nobody has torn up the peace treaty, treaties need to be amended as circumstances dictate. This always happens with treaties.

If Scotland had left the UK, then the treaty would have needed amending, so would you have levelled the accusation against Scotland that they tore up the NI peace treaty? It is a ridiculous notion that one side can't change at all and that the treaty can't be changed accordingly without accusations of 'torching' the treaty.

It is quite possible that Ireland is unable to comply with whatever nonsese the UK dreams would happen, if so it remains the fault of the UK, because again:
They are literally torching the good Friday accords.
Its beyond fucking ridiculous to unilaterally tear up a peace treaty and then blame the other side for not re-negotiating it to suit their needs.

It would only be due to EU interference that Eire would not be able to comply with any UK-RoI agreement reached and if the EU stops a member state from coming to an arrangement for their security, whether that be out of pettiness or inflexibility on the part fo the EU, then the EU is not fit for purpose.

The EU has a marvelous chance to rack up some positive PR, which they desperately need, by saying that they will abide by whatever RoI and UK deem is in their mutual interests. It is not like Ireland and Britain don't have a million-and-one exceptions to EU legislation, both of us have opt outs galore.

The current scheme lets everyone pretend N.Ireland is a part of the UK, and a part of Ireland at the same time, because there is no border, you can work on both sides of the non-border, and everyone cant continue with this pretense forever.
Until the UK decides to put up a border to control migration and customs, like the Brexiters want to do.
But apparently, those people getting exactly what they want (to have a border with the EU) is actually somehow, magically, the fault of the EU in regards to there being a border in Ireland.
its as if those people think that Ireland is still a part of the UK and should leave the EU with them.

Nobody is under the illusion that Northern Ireland is part of the Republic of Ireland, nor have I heard demands from anyone with any authority for a RoI-NI border, nor that the RoI leaves the EU.

What people want is a solution that is acceptable for both RoI and UK, if the EU don't like it, then the EU need to suck it up and put Ireland's interest first and foremost.

If the EU push Ireland into a position they find unacceptable, then the EU may well be shocked by the backlash - Ireland and Britain, for all their historical troubles, are very close, far closer to each other than they are to any other EU nation.