Raider.IO Development Updates - Raids and Mythic Plus

[Deleted]

Except the original reason for resets was that the difficulty corrections and going from farming level 15s to struggling in 10s again, which does not get overwritten in short enough period for people to take the score as a reasonable metric. In fact, if there was no reset or decay, my top score would still be from farming 22s and 23s shortly after Nighthold.

Well of course we're not talking about situations where dungeons get re-scaled but the one we're in now. Yes you might argue about BR situation but that's gonna be overwritten with time anyway, gear levels are still rising and people are still gitting gudder.

[Bhorin]

Except the original reason for resets was that the difficulty corrections and going from farming level 15s to struggling in 10s again, which does not get overwritten in short enough period for people to take the score as a reasonable metric. In fact, if there was no reset or decay, my top score would still be from farming 22s and 23s shortly after Nighthold.

I am not sure if you are in grips with reality.. but you probably should go outside talk a walk, take some deep breaths then return to your computer. I am pretty sure most, if not all, people think there should be some sort of reset (decaying or otherwise) when a re-scaling occurs, but that has not happened and not what is even being discussed, so suggesting permanent decaying is completely asinine. If you said "decay instead of reset" you might have some merit to your opinion, but as it stands you aren't making much sense.

[Deleted]

I'm okay thanks, you should never have to depend on an addon to add such QoL to a game feature.

I am a bit smarter than that and could easily check someones achievements, timestamps of them, gear and it's quality (is it gemmed and enchanted etc) as a brief idea on whether to invite them or not - then again i'm talking more raids than mythic+. +15 keys are extremely easy especially with certain affixes so you don't need great requirements for them.

I understand the addon is to give you an 'at a glance snapshot' like the way people used gearscore in the past, but when it relies on flawed data then I have no idea why anyone would base their assumptions on it. As far as I am concerned I won't be using it neither will my friends or guildees as we all have experienced it being completely wrong.

You could have used MythicPlusHelper addon to screen all raid members and applicants at one glance. Then they (recently) removed the part of information many people complain about: m+ runs' history. Can I get a cheer from all the people who complain about missing runs in raider.io (not so much about Blizzard not supplying more information to work with)? You can now use MPH to see tier, raid history, leggos, artifact level but not mythic+ runs. Why it's still "Mythic" Plus Helper I don't know though. Should be "Antorus Pug Helper" now.

[Styx]

To cut a long story short:

Raider.IO is fundamentally flawed as it is not a fair system, and this is not the developers' fault, because at it's core Raider.IO is simply a front-end interface being fed by a ladder system operated by Blizzard. This add-on is what RaidBots is to SimulationCraft - great packaging but ultimately flawed if the SC root data is wrong.

The fact that the scoring system ignores affixes (i.e. easy weeks rated as much as harder weeks); the fact that early reset runs have a very high relative importance (scoring should be consistently on a weekly basis irrespective of day or time); the fact that how many runs you make of different dungeons is not a reflection of available skill but of available time. These are all fundamental flaws that will inevitably result frustrations for a lot of the player base.

Unfortunately, as stated in the first paragraph, the community will always try and find "the best available filter" to use for player selection. Unfortunately, Raider.IO despite its flaws, is the best option available and the community will use it no matter what.

Personally, I choose not to use it because of these flaws. The consequence? I do not get invited to many high level keys. I honestly don't care as joining a flawed bandwagon is not an option for me.

QFT

/10 chars

[Cracked]

I am not sure if you are in grips with reality.. but you probably should go outside talk a walk, take some deep breaths then return to your computer. I am pretty sure most, if not all, people think there should be some sort of reset (decaying or otherwise) when a re-scaling occurs, but that has not happened and not what is even being discussed, so suggesting permanent decaying is completely asinine. If you said "decay instead of reset" you might have some merit to your opinion, but as it stands you aren't making much sense.

I never said I wasn't open to limiting the decay period to some time after rescaling, in reality, what I said was 'decay by the week, no more arbitrary resets ever', which doesn't imply either. So you can save your speeches about taking deep breaths, but I do suggest talking to your psychologist about the possibility of harnessing aggression.

[GreenJesus]

Whether it makes sense at all or not is quite subjective, I respect your opinion, but don't care for it. But when you talk that you accomplish the same thing without either reset or decay, you either lack some brain power, or don't know how the score works.

Unless you are one of the people constantly farming mythic+ every day your idea is literally retarded and should be thrown away. No fucking thanks. I would rather not be forced to be worried about my score going down because I haven't done a Seat key in some weeks. Try going to the premade group finder. Literally no keys are ever listed for that dungeon.

[xStevooo]

You could have used MythicPlusHelper addon to screen all raid members and applicants at one glance. Then they (recently) removed the part of information many people complain about: m+ runs' history. Can I get a cheer from all the people who complain about missing runs in raider.io (not so much about Blizzard not supplying more information to work with)? You can now use MPH to see tier, raid history, leggos, artifact level but not mythic+ runs. Why it's still "Mythic" Plus Helper I don't know though. Should be "Antorus Pug Helper" now.

This makes more sense now, thanks. I did not know Blizz limited the information these guys had access to work with, but if the data is so inconsistent - through no fault of their own, then I will simply be avoiding it's use and anyone else using it in my groups.

Hopefully there can be some solution going forward to give addons 100% transparency to all the information you want, therefore using this information to filter out who you do or do not want in your groups can be really 'at a glance'.

TLDR : This addon doesn't provide me with anything relevant to base my decisions off.

[Bhorin]

I never said I wasn't open to limiting the decay period to some time after rescaling, in reality, what I said was 'decay by the week, no more arbitrary resets ever', which doesn't imply either. So you can save your speeches about taking deep breaths, but I do suggest talking to your psychologist about the possibility of harnessing aggression.

Pretty much everyone on here completely disagrees with you... but I need a psychologist because you came up with a really terrible idea on how to get rid of resets... ok.

[jaidalyn]

Can you add asterisks to indicate how many chests the player got next to their best for dungeon and best dungeon? There's a big difference between someone 3 chesting a +18 vs. someone taking 2 hours to do a 19, the 3 chest +18 is largely more impressive in my opinion.

[Deleted]

Can you add asterisks to indicate how many chests the player got next to their best for dungeon and best dungeon? There's a big difference between someone 3 chesting a +18 vs. someone taking 2 hours to do a 19, the 3 chest +18 is largely more impressive in my opinion.

It's on the website already, so if you want to check further than just the addon, the information is there already. I am guessing the guys behind it don't want to clutter the information box with too much information, but that's just my wild guess.

[Twdft]

Can you add asterisks to indicate how many chests the player got next to their best for dungeon and best dungeon? There's a big difference between someone 3 chesting a +18 vs. someone taking 2 hours to do a 19, the 3 chest +18 is largely more impressive in my opinion.

On the other hand if your best run is 3 chested wouldn't this indicate you were carried? Playing with players of your skill level should result in your highest completed dungeon not in time or barely made it.

[jaidalyn]

On the other hand if your best run is 3 chested wouldn't this indicate you were carried? Playing with players of your skill level should result in your highest completed dungeon not in time or barely made it.

Then perhaps they need to add best for dungeon done in time and indicate how many chests because there are a lot of people that have high keys done not in time and also not a single key of the same dungeon done with a 3 chest. For example, someone has a +20 DHT that took 2 hours and you check their DHT history and they don't even have an impressive +15 (or 16, 17, etc) DHT... But the addon, if I'm not mistaken, will show the +20 as their best for dungeon and apply the score from the +20. It's a pretty common thing to see when you look up people on the website. If you bang your head against something long enough, you'll eventually get through but it doesn't mean you learned anything in the process. Especially if your motivation is a high raider.io score and not the challenge of the dungeon which is common as well since you see people requiring a certain score to even get considered for an invite, which is dumb since you can get a high score having never completed a dungeon in time.

You call it skill but I consider it knowledge of the dungeon and in my experience, it's very rare to put together a pug where everyone has equal knowledge of a dungeon, regardless of how equally high their scores are or their "best for dungeon".

Personally I can't see how 3 chests indicates you were carried, not saying it isn't possible but I'm not understanding why that would be your conclusion. I see it more as everyone knew what they were doing, or they were over-geared but that depends on the key level. What I'm saying isn't new though, anyone who cares enough about their key wouldn't invite someone solely based off the information in the addon, they would go to their profile and check their history at that particular dungeon, namely checking for their best key completed in time and how many chests they got.

Or keep it simple, why have dungeons not completed in time even add to a person's score and why show that depleted key as their best for dungeon. I'm not discrediting the achievement of having just finished a high key dungeon regardless if it was done in time or not but this addon is for pugging to better help find equally skilled players and right now the information it provides doesn't do that. At best it just says they do a lot of mythic+ which is better than nothing but I feel since they already have finer details, they could easily add that to the addon... Now that I think about it, timed 15+ runs for a particular dungeon would be a nice compliment as well.

[ID811717]

Then perhaps they need to add best for dungeon done in time and indicate how many chests because there are a lot of people that have high keys done not in time and also not a single key of the same dungeon done with a 3 chest. For example, someone has a +20 DHT that took 2 hours and you check their DHT history and they don't even have an impressive +15 (or 16, 17, etc) DHT... But the addon, if I'm not mistaken, will show the +20 as their best for dungeon and apply the score from the +20.

I think you put too much emphasis on 3-chesting (or on 2-chesting, for all it matters). Like, if I am looking for someone to do my +22 key, I could not care less if they 3-chested a +19 key. In comparison to +22, doing +19 is a faceroll content (and you can plug any other numbers here, +22 is faceroll if you progress in +25, and +12 is faceroll if you progress in +15). I would rather take someone who depleted +22 because they finished 30 seconds over time.

If you are playing M+ keys that are appropriate for your experience&skills, you will nearly never 3-chest them anyway (and only occasionally 2-chest).

Having said that, your bottom line is good -- it could be nice to have the addon show "the highest timed" key for a specific dungeon. But how many chests you got for that - is irrelevant.

[Justmeiguess]

Is it possible, in the future to combine warcraft logs and raider.io etc to log dungeons? for the scores to update etc? Starting late in the week requires you to be top 100 realm to have your things updated, by doing 23+s etc
By logging you could see the overall damage done in that dungeon + level of dungeon obviously, filters out boosted people and low performing people etc? and possibly faster updates on your raider.io profile

[Cracked]

Is it possible, in the future to combine warcraft logs and raider.io etc to log dungeons? for the scores to update etc? Starting late in the week requires you to be top 100 realm to have your things updated, by doing 23+s etc
By logging you could see the overall damage done in that dungeon + level of dungeon obviously, filters out boosted people and low performing people etc? and possibly faster updates on your raider.io profile

So what's stopping you from taking someone else's logs and changing the names? The reason why something like this is not implemented is that it's too easy to counterfeit.

[ItsTiddles]

Is it possible, in the future to combine warcraft logs and raider.io etc to log dungeons? for the scores to update etc? Starting late in the week requires you to be top 100 realm to have your things updated, by doing 23+s etc
By logging you could see the overall damage done in that dungeon + level of dungeon obviously, filters out boosted people and low performing people etc? and possibly faster updates on your raider.io profile

No server requires a 23 to be listed for a dungeon. That aside, Blizzard will be updating their API to extend to 500 entries per dungeon, up from 100.

[Magnagarde]

No server requires a 23 to be listed for a dungeon. That aside, Blizzard will be updating their API to extend to 500 entries per dungeon, up from 100.

That is a good change, considering so many simply rushed to squeeze the dungeons during the start of each new reset.

[HuxNeva]

TLDR : This addon doesn't provide me with anything relevant to base my decisions off.

So, what does give you the perfection you seek. Please enlighten us so we can also use it.

[idunnowatdo]

Kind of a odd question. Does downgrading your key affect your io score?

[Ayuka]

Kind of a odd question. Does downgrading your key affect your io score?

I dont think so. but im not really sure about this.