Why pvp feels so bad this expansion

[Ohmega]

That is false.

The template system by design is designating winners and losers in PVP. The pruning ensures that PVE rotations reign supreme.

You can say things over and over, it won't make them true.

How can you look at the current state of the game and say that all classes and nearly all specs within classes are not viable? Which specs and classes are not, if that is truly the case?

Out of the three classes I have at max - Hunter, Death Knight, Monk - I would say that only one of the nine specs is fairly weak or under-performing in pvp (Brewmaster). (And I am not totally convinced that it is the spec yet, as I may just suck at it.) I can spec into any of the remaining roles and do very well.

Just because things are streamlined does not mean they are simple. When you pvp, can you tell the difference between a bad player and a good player or a good player and a great player? Of course you can. Now how is that the case if things are as you say?

[Fkiolaris]

Correct. My point was emboldened.

Some of us like PvP for the sake of PvP. My core group has always enjoyed just playing against other players, hence why we are all here and enjoying Legion PvP a great deal.

And some of us like pvp both for the sake of it AND getting some targeted, relevant rewards out of it. Meaning that I like to pvp and have fun, with a piece of gear as a reward down the line being the icing rather than the cake. Legion is the first expansion where Blizzard took away the fun out of both aspects and it's the first time since TBC that I have given up pvp entirely.

[Mafic]

You can say things over and over, it won't make them true.

How can you look at the current state of the game and say that all classes and nearly all specs within classes are not viable? Which specs and classes are not, if that is truly the case?

Out of the three classes I have at max - Hunter, Death Knight, Monk - I would say that only one of the nine specs is fairly weak or under-performing in pvp (Brewmaster). (And I am not totally convinced that it is the spec yet, as I may just suck at it.) I can spec into any of the remaining roles and do very well.

Just because things are streamlined does not mean they are simple. When you pvp, can you tell the difference between a bad player and a good player or a good player and a great player? Of course you can. Now how is that the case if things are as you say?

You are wrong and I will be here every step of the way to point it out. Your low post count and high posting frequency in PVP section reveals that you have an agenda to push. Not buying what you are selling

You sound like a used car salesman trying to sell me a car without an AC Unit.

Most specs are not viable in PVP currently and what you consider viable may depend on comp. But most comps are not viable if you were being objectively honest.

[mmowin]

I'm trying to understand the WoW pvper nowadays. Sooooo, what you guys are saying is that pvp is perfectly fine right now even though there is no progression, no incentive to push rating, no cosmetic rewards etc? So basically you all just pvp for fun and dont care about the rewards? Just curious.

[JoshuaNLG]

PvP is no longer about skill, because certain matchups for certain classes are just a guaranteed loss because they no longer have the tools to deal with their opponent, previously if you were a skilled enough player, you could outplay someone, no matter what class they are, that's no longer possible.

[mmowin]

PvP is no longer about skill, because certain matchups for certain classes are just a guaranteed loss because they no longer have the tools to deal with their opponent, previously if you were a skilled enough player, you could outplay someone, no matter what class they are, that's no longer possible.

Unless your a demon hunter that is

[shoegazing]

People say that, but it just is not true. And what do you mean by "PVE rotation"? Do you mean a series of abilities that maximize damage? If so, that is how you ought to be going about attacking another player, right? Just because you see things repeated does not mean they are worth repeating.

That argument is silly because of the amount of cc present in PvP currently. Interrupting someone's "rotation" is incredibly easy to do and it happens more often than not. Since that is the case, it must be the case that other things are more important than simply running in and hitting 3-4 buttons in quick succession, for most classes and most comps.

there is less CC present in this game than at any other point in history

I'm trying to understand the WoW pvper nowadays. Sooooo, what you guys are saying is that pvp is perfectly fine right now even though there is no progression, no incentive to push rating, no cosmetic rewards etc? So basically you all just pvp for fun and dont care about the rewards? Just curious.

in a perfect world yes. however PvP is no longer fun in this expansion. the gameplay of the classes is too simplified and too focused on simply dealing damage like we are PvEing some boss. many of the interesting and niche utility abilities have been removed from the game. it basically boils down to 1) chase the weakest member of the other team 2) maximize your damage by doing your PvE rotation as well as you can 3) use your 1-2 remaining utilities that didn't get pruned more or less on cooldown

as far as I can tell there are 3 groups of players that do PvP in WoW. there's the hardcore arena crowd, and they hate Legion PvP because of the dumbed down gameplay. there's the casual battleground crowd and they hate Legion because they can't grind out a gear advantage to stomp undergeared players anymore. and then there's the crowd that just dabbles in PvP on their off night from doing other activities in the game, and they think Legion is great because they can just use their gear that they got from doing PvE instead of grinding a second set

[Pickynerd]

Unless your a demon hunter that is

Yeah hero classes... DH will remain OP until the next one is brought in, DK finally felt the burn of the nerf stick, now that they are no longer the favorite child.

[shoegazing]

I can't even find queues on my low 1750 CR alt right now. That's how dead PvP is, there is no one to queue with at noon on Sunday at a measly 1750 rating which should be the meat of the ladder

[mmowin]

I can't even find queues on my low 1750 CR alt right now. That's how dead PvP is, there is no one to queue with at noon on Sunday at a measly 1750 rating which should be the meat of the ladder

Yeah its kind of bad right now. I hope in 7.2 things start to pick up again. Right now people are either burned out of WoW and quitting or just taking a break. On my guild, hardly anyone is ever on. AND IT'S A SUNDAY!

[Merkicus]

there is less CC present in this game than at any other point in history

lolwut?

Everyone has a stun or CC of some kind now. Everyone has interrupts now.

I guess you never played vanilla or TBC but PVP was at its best then. Battlegrounds were much more fun because every class didn't have everything. DPS trains killed healers, but healers could also keep people alive better than they can now thanks to mana actually being a thing - you could spam some flash heal or big heal back then but you'd run oom in 10 casts or something like that

Now I'm pretty sure I can spam fast heal about 30 times...maybe more.

And then you have everyone having so many utilities now - everyone has escapes, closers, and PVP is basically some retarded EDM lightshow

PVP will continue to be trash as long as people have hotbars full of 20 abilities +

There's a reason pvp has gotten worse as more expansions have come out

They need to release an experimental BG where along with templates, everyone just becomes a certain class or role - like a warcraft 2 battle - and you get like 5-6 abilities and that's it

[shoegazing]

lolwut?

Everyone has a stun or CC of some kind now. Everyone has interrupts now.

I guess you never played vanilla or TBC but PVP was at its best then. Battlegrounds were much more fun because every class didn't have everything. DPS trains killed healers, but healers could also keep people alive better than they can now thanks to mana actually being a thing - you could spam some flash heal or big heal back then but you'd run oom in 10 casts or something like that

Now I'm pretty sure I can spam fast heal about 30 times...maybe more.

And then you have everyone having so many utilities now - everyone has escapes, closers, and PVP is basically some retarded EDM lightshow

PVP will continue to be trash as long as people have hotbars full of 20 abilities +

There's a reason pvp has gotten worse as more expansions have come out

They need to release an experimental BG where along with templates, everyone just becomes a certain class or role - like a warcraft 2 battle - and you get like 5-6 abilities and that's it

lol i've played this game since 2004.

my rogue in vanilla had 2x blind (that last 10 seconds, unlike 8 seconds today), sap, gouge, 2x stuns on different DR tables, crippling poison, and mind numbing poison

my sub rogue today has 1x blind at 8 second, cheap shot & kidney shot on the same DR, and sap

every single expansion after Cata has reduced the amount of CC in the game

the genre of game you are looking for with an experimental BG with a certain class or role and only 5-6 abilities is called a MOBA btw and you ignorant simpletons should go play one of those instead of crying to Blizzard every xpac to dumb this game down to that level

[Merkicus]

lol i've played this game since 2004.

my rogue in vanilla had 2x blind (that last 10 seconds, unlike 8 seconds today), sap, gouge, 2x stuns on different DR tables, crippling poison, and mind numbing poison

my sub rogue today has 1x blind at 8 second, cheap shot & kidney shot on the same DR, and sap

every single expansion after Cata has reduced the amount of CC in the game

the game you are looking for with an experimental BG with a certain class or role and only 5-6 abilities is called a MOBA btw and u simpletons should go play one of those instead of crying to Blizzard every xpac to dumb this game down to that level

You had 2x blind only if you had prep, which was a fairly deep talent commitment, sap worked out of combat, one of the stuns was only doable from stealth - the other required a significant amount of combo points which didn't fall out of the sky, and poisons could be cured

While some classes like rogue may not have 15 different abilities anymore, every other class that didn't have one has it now. You really should shut your mouth before you act like you know what you're talking about when you clearly do not.

[shoegazing]

sap worked out of combat

what part of this is exactly is different today lmao

[QUOTE]poisons could be cured/QUOTE]

actually different healers could only dispel certain categories of effect

who is the ignorant one exactly?

P.S. go play a MOBA you fool it's literally the exact thing you are looking for

[Merkicus]

[QUOTE=shoegazing;44900119]what part of this is exactly is different today lmao

- - - Updated - - -

poisons could be cured/QUOTE]

actually different healers could only dispel certain categories of effect

who is the ignorant one exactly?

I see you are trying to divert away from your argument and opinions being garbage and wrong.

[shoegazing]

I see you are trying to divert away from your argument and opinions being garbage and wrong.

how is a diversion when you can't even write a basic argument that isn't riddled with factual errors lol

and yet you accuse me of not having played classic WoW, that's rich...

[ls-]

I'm trying to understand the WoW pvper nowadays. Sooooo, what you guys are saying is that pvp is perfectly fine right now even though there is no progression, no incentive to push rating, no cosmetic rewards etc? So basically you all just pvp for fun and dont care about the rewards? Just curious.

Ehm, hello? Haven't you read PvP threads? Many vocal people want PvP w/ no progression whatsoever, some even want to have access to premade lvl110 chars of any class/spec w/ maxed out artefacts, so they could PvP w/o doing "unnecessary RPG shit", a.k.a. levelling char, levelling artefact, gearing up... Many people want MOBA-like PvP.

That's one of the reasons why (many?, dunno, but surely vocal) people opposed 35+ traits in PvP...

TBH, I think these people should stop playing WoW and start playing actual MOBAs, or they tried, but sucked balls...

[Ethidia]

Ehm, hello? Haven't you read PvP threads? Many vocal people want PvP w/ no progression whatsoever, some even want to have access to premade lvl110 chars of any class/spec w/ maxed out artefacts, so they could PvP w/o doing "unnecessary RPG shit", a.k.a. levelling char, levelling artefact, gearing up... Many people want MOBA-like PvP.

That's one of the reasons why (many?, dunno, but surely vocal) people opposed 35+ traits in PvP...

TBH, I think these people should stop playing WoW and start playing actual MOBAs, or they tried, but sucked balls...

Many still want some progression, but we want the old progression, where you felt OP when you were full PvP gear and you met someone with PvE gear. The feel you got when it was the week where you would get PvP weap, the feel of PURE dmg you dealt with your new weap. Not this kind of progression where you get 1% dmg each artifact level, where PvE players have more stats than you, because it is easier to get gear through PvE, not the kind where you can't one shit PvE people in bgs, we want to feel we progress in PvP when we get PvP gear.

[FelPlague]

Yeah I remember when gemming your gear was really fun back in the day. Deciding whether you should be gemming all strenght or all crit or even remember pvp power gems? :O lol!

yeah no, it wasent fun, and you dident decide, it was "ok you are this class and not crit cap? gem all crit"
and it cost alot... so replacing a peice of gear for a very minor upgrade sucked.. "ok i got a weapon that is pretty much the same but has a socket... new enchant, new gems..."

[Ohmega]

lolwut?

Everyone has a stun or CC of some kind now. Everyone has interrupts now.

I guess you never played vanilla or TBC but PVP was at its best then. Battlegrounds were much more fun because every class didn't have everything. DPS trains killed healers, but healers could also keep people alive better than they can now thanks to mana actually being a thing - you could spam some flash heal or big heal back then but you'd run oom in 10 casts or something like that

Now I'm pretty sure I can spam fast heal about 30 times...maybe more.

And then you have everyone having so many utilities now - everyone has escapes, closers, and PVP is basically some retarded EDM lightshow

PVP will continue to be trash as long as people have hotbars full of 20 abilities +

There's a reason pvp has gotten worse as more expansions have come out

They need to release an experimental BG where along with templates, everyone just becomes a certain class or role - like a warcraft 2 battle - and you get like 5-6 abilities and that's it

The guy says he has been playing since 2004 as if that is an argument for the idea that classes have less utility now than ever before. That is a patently false claim.

The developers appear to be trying to find the sweet-spot between quantity of abilities, class design, and overarching mechanics. At one point, classes had too little and certain classes had no chance against others; at some other point, every class had WAY too many tools and the game was bogged down by nonsense. Currently, we are somewhere in the middle and on the right track towards proper balance.

There is a reason why nearly every class and every spec within every class has a place in PvP. That used to be a laughable claim in the WoW universe. I can log onto my hunter, my monk, or my DK and spec into any of their associated specs (apart from maybe Brewmaster) and do very well, in any PvP setting. That is a fact.