Is sub fun in Legion?

[shoegazing]

I only ever had tremendous fun with sub when i had soulcap+ring available. Otherwise in WoD it was mediocre/struggling. In cata it was fun af, but again, the daggers and more complicated rotation played a huge factor.

I always see people saying sub was so good in WoD and all i can think of was the high note sub had in HFC with soulcap and the legendary ring. The spec was barely on par before that, and if i recall correctly, combat was ahead unless you could get a soulcap, once you had soulcap, the spec got super fun just because we could massively blow shit up. Strictly pve perspective***. I do realize sub pvp in WoD was pretty good due to the CC you could apply within SD.

blah blah blah damage damage damage

i feel sorry for anyone who can't enjoy playing a spec without being #1 on the damage meters. if sub didn't become fun for you until HFC then you don't know what fun is

[elfporn]

blah blah blah damage damage damage

i feel sorry for anyone who can't enjoy playing a spec without being #1 on the damage meters. if sub didn't become fun for you until HFC then you don't know what fun is

"Fun" is subjective. I have fun by trying to compete against others for top dps, if that's not fun for you, then so what? Being top dps is a huge part of having fun for a great many people.

It's not fun being shit on when you compete with your friends, when sub wasn't competitive, i played what was. The more nuanced and complex spec is also fun to me, WoD sub was...not very complex, you had a burst window you had to fill once a minute. The only complexity was if you fucked up and were off by a few seconds on SD you would miss the ring.

What's fun for you? Being competitive in pvp? All i ever hear from you is that sub isn't fun because it's not the way you think it should be.

[Kalador]

blah blah blah damage damage damage

i feel sorry for anyone who can't enjoy playing a spec without being #1 on the damage meters. if sub didn't become fun for you until HFC then you don't know what fun is

Stop it with your constant negativity... Yes WoD sub was a good spec and I personally enjoyed playing it thru the expansion but I can tell you in PvE it was far from a perfect spec and it was not that insane complexe spec that many people hype up. Sub in legion as it fair share of problem to like the teleport on SS and other annoyance but it's a very fun spec to play both in raid and Mythic +. There is way more optimisation and decision making than WoD sub ever had in PvE and you can actually play the spec on other stuff than pure ST something that you could never have thought to do in WoD.

It's okay, we get that your beloved PvP spec is dead but stop generalize your feeling to everyone... We get that you think legion is the worst expac ever but guess what a shit tone of player are having a blast in that expac... Maybe wow is just not for you anymore and you should stop with your rose glasses elitism...

- - - Updated - - -

It's not just a PvP vs. PvE thing. Look for yourself:

wtf is that video suppose to show... a guy 2 shoting mobs in tanan jungle, cause if that"s what you miss i can tell you that you can do exactly the same thing with legion sub.... you don't even need cloak and dagger talented now...

[skylark123]

Sub in legion design wise is horrible, ruined the perfect spec.. I mainly pvp and can assure you that you will get seizures, it does a decent amount of damage but lacks that burst ability that sub used to have (Dance). PVE wise I have no clue but cant see why it should be any better, 4 second dance sounds horrible!

[Kalador]

Sub in legion design wise is horrible, ruined the perfect spec.. I mainly pvp and can assure you that you will get seizures, it does a decent amount of damage but lacks that burst ability that sub used to have (Dance). PVE wise I have no clue but cant see why it should be any better, 4 second dance sounds horrible!

it's a 5 sec window in PvE with subterfuge, it allow 4 builder and 1 finisher witch is quite good actually, it's exactly what the energy allow.

The charge system is much better in PvE as it allow for far more flex than it use to. you see pvp is all about setting up burst window but in PvE not using ShD on CD almost always end up in a dps loss, in WoD you basically had to pop it on CD. Now you can think more about when do you need burst or not, save charge for better window in a fight or prio target.

The finisher recharge system is also very good gameplay wise in PvE, you can take advantage of it on AoE for more bust ST or AoE wise it offers a lot of way to accelerate the rotation outside of pure ST. The rotation feels great as great usage of your energy during dance and not wasting it outside feeds into more shadow dance and more dps.

Overall it's a spec with a lot of depth and there is always room for improvement when you play it.

WoD sub was a good spec in PvE but it was never as complex as most people argue it was... always use every cd as soon as they are up, make sure you have energy for them and don't let rupture/S&D drop... In PvE we have great souvenir of WoD sub because in HfC every little thing lined-up to make sub super strong, the 2-4 set was super great, trinket were perfect for sub rotation and the ring was the cherry on the cake lining up with ShD but outside of HfC in PvE was an above average playstyle spec but nothing more...

[skylark123]

I see ur point, still dont understand why they ruined the perfect melee spec through out the history of wow.. The spec is so stale and pruned it's horrible, all you do is shadowstrike and cheap shot here and there.. Where are the iconic abilities such as Gouge and shiv, really makes 0 sense to remove spells just because pve players never uses them/find them annoying to bind/to hard for new players to use.. The spec is ruined, nothing else to say! They could atleast have added all those spells in the Honor tab instead of adding passives/removing them completely :S

[Ilir]

Sub (and rogues in general) were deadly boring before Legion. That's the only reason I never managed to play one regularly because it was just ughh

opinions are opinions tho

[elfporn]

I see ur point, still dont understand why they ruined the perfect melee spec through out the history of wow.. The spec is so stale and pruned it's horrible, all you do is shadowstrike and cheap shot here and there.. Where are the iconic abilities such as Gouge and shiv, really makes 0 sense to remove spells just because pve players never uses them/find them annoying to bind/to hard for new players to use.. The spec is ruined, nothing else to say! They could atleast have added all those spells in the Honor tab instead of adding passives/removing them completely :S

All three rogue specs were stale and boring before legion - sub had a very nice resurgence in HFC due to the fun combination of gear and legendaries we had.

The removal of gouge from sub and ass, and shiv being turned into a ranged attack for ass only was part of making each spec more unique. All three specs had the exact same toolkits - there was very little difference between all three specs, particularly on the utility side. Admittedly, sub was given cloak and dagger as a main attack and got less of the utility toolkit as a result, hopefully that changes in the future, i would much rather have 10yd range, with no teleport.

The consolidation/removal/pruning of abilities happened to every single spec though, sub(and rogue) is hardly unique or the worst off. Personally, i've always held the opinion that this would have to happen to make room for more abilities in the future. 12 years adding new abilities just doesn't work, keyboards aren't large enough, and new generations can't handle such a complicated setup very easily.

[awake283]

Sub is the MOST fun!

[lolpve]

Sub is probably the most fun spec of the 3 currently, but that isn't saying much since the class was gutted for Legion. Comparing sub in each expansion, I think in order of fun it goes cata>wotlk>TBC>WoD>MoP>Legion

[Seliar]

Subtlety was just flat out fun and awesome to play before, and it simply isn't anymore. Blizzard's new generation of class designers ruined the Mona Lisa of class design because they didn't appreciate the value of what they had inherited.

It's not just a PvP vs. PvE thing. Look for yourself:

You know I could record a short video about killing elites in a warden tower area and that would look exatly the same as yours.

The OP asked "is sub fun in Legion?" and the answer to that question is "not nearly as much fun as it was

I find the current version more fun than the previous versions from cata-mop-wod. I guess that everyone who has read some wow forums at least once since the legion alpha already know how you hate the new rogue and how you miss the old one. Just stop playing the game...

[shoegazing]

You know I could record a short video about killing elites in a warden tower area and that would look exatly the same as yours.



I find the current version more fun than the previous versions from cata-mop-wod. I guess that everyone who has read some wow forums at least once since the legion alpha already know how you hate the new rogue and how you miss the old one. Just stop playing the game...

No it wouldn't, you are just too uninformed to appreciate the differences.

[Kalador]

No it wouldn't, you are just too uninformed to appreciate the differences.

Yes it would, actually killing elite in this expac would look way better... Your freaking 2 shooting mobs in the video... Your video shows absolutely NOTHING of what sub was in WoD because it shows absolutely nothing else than a guy stealthing teleporting between mobs that are 2-3 shot by a guy way overgearing the content...

This kind of context was absolutely shit for sub in WoD... Rupture was doing nothing, hemo was doing nothing, SnD is completely useless.. yes sub was a great spec but God you really choose the worst exemple possible to make your point. And yes I played the shit tone of that zone as sub... Enough for both of the jungle and predator title...

[Critical92]

That video shows that wod sub was like legion sub but with more tools available.
When you level a sub rogue you do the same like in the video.
Cheapshot and Shadowstrike spam with eviscerate as finisher because mobs won't live long enough.
When you fight elites as fresh 110 alone it often ends in kiting after kidney or until the mob is stun immune.
I remember some elites who were tough alone, not all but a few.

The fact is legion sub is not the sub we used to know and the teleport seems fun at first but soon you realize what a burden it is.
Buggy hitboxes from bosses (one small step away, port under boss, etc)
Nearly no dmg in pvp. With 900+ equipt itemlevel and an evening of bg's, my greatest eviscerate crit (no flag bg's) was 438k and shadowstrike 180k. Most of the dmg came from nightblade.

I like the old sub more but i can and will have fun as sub in legion and remember, can it get worse?

[shoegazing]

All three rogue specs were stale and boring before legion - sub had a very nice resurgence in HFC due to the fun combination of gear and legendaries we had.

lol pve people think the most awesome and well designed class in the game was "stale and boring"

straight up ridiculous

"let's split the utility up between 3 specs so that they are MORE UNIQUE! who cares that they are only playing 1/3 of a class now? it's more fun somehow because it's MORE UNIQUE"

[elfporn]

lol pve people think the most awesome and well designed class in the game was "stale and boring"

straight up ridiculous

"let's split the utility up between 3 specs so that they are MORE UNIQUE! who cares that they are only playing 1/3 of a class now? it's more fun somehow because it's MORE UNIQUE"

I'm sorry that they felt it was bland when all that changed between specs were the cd's. Oh wait, combat had BG.

[shoegazing]

I'm sorry that they felt it was bland when all that changed between specs were the cd's. Oh wait, combat had BG.

blah blah blah damage damage damage

sub is far less unique than it was before and you're clueless if you don't see it. shadow dance went from being the most exciting button in the entire game to being just another forgettable part of a boring rotation

and you have zero appreciation for what Find Weakness meant for the spec mechanically outside of a raid environment. unsurprising

subtlety before Legion: the most exciting PvP spec in the game

subtlety after Legion: a spec that does very little in pvp other than stunning people for your mage teammate and 223 223 223ing at people ("omg muh rotation! so excite!") with teleport spam

[iky43210]

sub was amazing before legion, now its just a shell.

I'd be playing my dk instead if they weren't just so slow in legion

[elfporn]

SHOEGAZING'S OPINION (i can do it too)

Everyone here knows how you feel about sub, and we've all heard your incessant and belligerent whining and adherence to what you think the spec should be.

No one else's opinions matter, because of course yours is the right opinion, there's nothing to concede because how can anything you say be wrong?

So kudos on how you feel. Other people feel far far differently about the direction the game has gone.

Also, i certainly do have an appreciation for how good 100% armor pen(FW) was in pvp. It was nice, but the game has been balanced aroudn its loss, and it's certainly not required to excel in pvp. And lastly, i hope you're not just shadowstriking and eviscerating...i thought you were supposed to be good at pvp?

[shoegazing]

And lastly, i certainly hope you're not just shadowstriking and eviscerating...i thought you were supposed to be good at pvp?

you're right, sometimes I also have to press Cheap Shot #LegionSub

this spec is absolute trash compared to what it was at its peak

all because Blizzard thought it was more important to make it "more appealing to a wider audience" than to keep it appealing for the people who had gravitated to the spec for its unique playstyle over the course of the last 12 years