Rip TV build?

[Deleted]

Damn, my guild is only on 4th place on server / 265th world rank :C I should quit the game because I have cleared Mythic a bit slower with spec I like.

In more serious tone, have u cleared NH Mythic as one of top 10 guilds? If no than sorry but you didn't achieve anything, meanwhile you are forcing yourself to play the spec you don't like. So yeah, i prefer to be in semi-crappy guild but have some fun and do the same content as you did in your 'hardcore' guild anyway.

thats fine but the fact remains that you're simply not playing optimally, you'd still prolly be able to do 10-20% more dps simply due to how frost and the encounters are designed, you playing arcane is fine but ultimately it just means you're too selfish to play optimally for your guild and doesnt take progression seriously enough and there is nothing wrong with that as long as you're aware that you prolly slowed down your guild's progression bcoz of that and ofc your guildleader is ok with you playing it.

i find it funny that you seem to have this notion that if you cant refute a person's post you instead turn to attack them in some way like in the post i quoted, you've done this consistently, it doesnt increase your credibility, in fact it reduces it, making you seem extremely biased and petty, as you cant seem to accept the fact that arcane is a pretty poor spec overall, the sims show it, the logs show it and every1 knows it, atleast compared to frost.

[Riistov]

Fire and arcane are still going to be shit, what's the point of playing a pure dps class when you are forced into one spec for mythic content?

I heard Arcane was looking solid

[Deleted]

thats fine but the fact remains that you're simply not playing optimally, you'd still prolly be able to do 10-20% more dps simply due to how frost and the encounters are designed, you playing arcane is fine but ultimately it just means you're too selfish to play optimally for your guild and doesnt take progression seriously enough and there is nothing wrong with that as long as you're aware that you prolly slowed down your guild's progression bcoz of that and ofc your guildleader is ok with you playing it.

i find it funny that you seem to have this notion that if you cant refute a person's post you instead turn to attack them in some way like in the post i quoted, you've done this consistently, it doesnt increase your credibility, in fact it reduces it, making you seem extremely biased and petty, as you cant seem to accept the fact that arcane is a pretty poor spec overall, the sims show it, the logs show it and every1 knows it, atleast compared to frost.

Lol, you attacked me first "you are if you want to play optimally, we arent all blessed with being in a guild of semi-crappy players that cant out dps an arcane mage like you tho", there are your words no? Why would u call someone semi-crappy if you do not even know people in my guild. Maybe show some logs to prove how strong and amazing you are? If you can't do that then just sit in your cave and do not come back.

How doing 100k dps less can slow down your progression, you won't even feel the difference between doing 1kk or 1.1kk dps. Furthermore, I was playing with many Frost mages, and I haven't seen a single Frost mage who would make me feel bad about playing Arcane, especially during progression. When frost has to do mechanics his dps is not so great anymore. Moreover, Mythic is all about doing mechanics while not going below dps check, higher dps comes later. You sound like a guy who clears content only after he outgears it by miles so he can skip most/hardest mechanics by simply skipping them by doing high dps . But oh well, FoTM players are always like that, they trying to hide their lack of skill behind strongest classes in the game

[Sills]

I've enjoyed it, but then again I started as Frost before it was good (always hated fire). It helps that frost performed well in NH and I received 2 BiS legends early on ... still waiting on that darn BL ring though. 8/10 ATM

Yeah same here except I was fortunate enough to get the gloves, bracers and TW ring as my 2nd, 3rd and 5th leggies (Belo'vir was my first) respectively.

I've stuck with frost since Mists launch including HFC when my other guildies went Arcane and the start of Legion when it seemed like most folks jumped on the Fire bandwagon. This change to TV will not be enough to get me to switch. I've played it on the PTR and it's fine; noticeably reduced of course, but still fine. This change was pretty necessary since TV uptime was already off-the-chart and we still have another tier of gear coming soon with ToS. It would've just become silly as we went deep into Heroic ToS and even more so into Mythic ToS. This is the game that Blizz has been playing with Frost for most of this expansion - keeping Frost dealing good damage while consistently trying to wind back the up-time of TV.

My enjoyment of Frost is more deep than just pure output so if Arcane happens to hop a bit ahead then I'm still perfectly fine with that. My guild isn't a top tier Mythic guild so I can afford to lose a bit of output if I enjoy one spec more than another (in fact my guild encourages this attitude - fun #1). In the meantime, I'll keep testing and providing Frost mage feedback on the PTR and then we'll see how things shape up come a live release.

[Deleted]

Lol, you attacked me first "you are if you want to play optimally, we arent all blessed with being in a guild of semi-crappy players that cant out dps an arcane mage like you tho", there are your words no? Why would u call someone semi-crappy if you do not even know people in my guild. Maybe show some logs to prove how strong and amazing you are? If you can't do that then just sit in your cave and do not come back.

How doing 100k dps less can slow down your progression, you won't even feel the difference between doing 1kk or 1.1kk dps. Furthermore, I was playing with many Frost mages, and I haven't seen a single Frost mage who would make me feel bad about playing Arcane, especially during progression. When frost has to do mechanics his dps is not so great anymore. Moreover, Mythic is all about doing mechanics while not going below dps check, higher dps comes later. You sound like a guy who clears content only after he outgears it by miles so he can skip most/hardest mechanics by simply skipping them by doing high dps . But oh well, FoTM players are always like that, they trying to hide their lack of skill behind strongest classes in the game

well technically, i didnt attack you, if you actually read what i wrote in the part you quoted, you'd know, i simply called you out for doing what you're doing and you started attacking ppl that didnt agree with you well b4 i allegedly "attacked" you or rather disagreed with you but i guess that doesnt matter, oh well.....

well, here's the thing tho, it adds up, if every1 plays optimally then it isnt just 100-200k dps were talking about, it could potentially be millions of extra dps when you factor in the fact that you're there with 20 other ppl which is potentially 10-20% of a mythic boss' hp which is pretty huge and it will lead to faster kills etc. which is a good thing bcoz more time used for a kill means more chances for a wipe too. i also like that you say that "When frost has to do mechanics his dps is not so great anymore" which leads me to think you're not doing any mechanics ever, when in fact the dps loss from frost is significantly than arcane and fire as frost has way more abilities that they can use to dps while moving without loosing dps and are arguably by far the best spec to deal with mechanics as frost's survivability are vastly superior to both fire and arcane. oh and btw, thanks for prooving my point by writing the last bit of your post, clearly shows that my thoughts about you were spot on.

[Ealyssa]

it just means you're too selfish to play optimally.

"It's selfish to enjoy the game you pay a sub"

God people are more and more stupid, it's quite insane. It's a freaking video game, not a job, a GAME. Where you have fun. Who the fuck care how the NFL plays ? You aren't NFL, you'll never be, just enjoy playing with your friends how you want to play.

[Deleted]

"It's selfish to enjoy the game you pay a sub"

God people are more and more stupid, it's quite insane. It's a freaking video game, not a job, a GAME. Where you have fun. Who the fuck care how the NFL plays ? You aren't NFL, you'll never be, just enjoy playing with your friends how you want to play.

and thats your opinion and thats fine but you're still letting atleast 19 pther ppl down by not playing the optimal spec, if you think thats fine then great, mythic raiding is about 20+ ppl working together towards a goal and the fact is playing the optimal spec helps you reach that goal faster and you're more valuable to your guild, so yes, in a sense you're selfish bcoz you put your own need over the common good of your guild, now if you play the spec that is most fun for you then there is nothing really wrong with it if your GL allows you to do it but you should atleast be aware that you're also potentially slowing your guild's progression down by doing so bcoz your dps is less than the max possible dps you can do and by having significantly less survivability, putting a greater strain on your raid as result..

[nickseng]

and thats your opinion and thats fine but you're still letting atleast 19 pther ppl down by not playing the optimal spec, if you think thats fine then great, mythic raiding is about 20+ ppl working together towards a goal and the fact is playing the optimal spec helps you reach that goal faster and you're more valuable to your guild, so yes, in a sense you're selfish bcoz you put your own need over the common good of your guild, now if you play the spec that is most fun for you then there is nothing really wrong with it if your GL allows you to do it but you should atleast be aware that you're also potentially slowing your guild's progression down by doing so bcoz your dps is less than the max possible dps you can do and by having significantly less survivability, putting a greater strain on your raid as result..

I wonder how far this playing optimally goes. Technically, playing Frost for Spellblade or Tich does mean you're not playing the optimal spec.

shrug

[Deleted]

"It's selfish to enjoy the game you pay a sub"

God people are more and more stupid, it's quite insane. It's a freaking video game, not a job, a GAME. Where you have fun. Who the fuck care how the NFL plays ? You aren't NFL, you'll never be, just enjoy playing with your friends how you want to play.

[Deleted]

I wonder how far this playing optimally goes. Technically, playing Frost for Spellblade or Tich does mean you're not playing the optimal spec.

shrug

well, if you look at the best logs for frost and arcane on spellblade then the difference is 9k dps in favor of arcane if we take the US parses and frost is ahead 30kisj dps on the EU parse, so over all, frost would be still be ahead and for tich the difference is rather large in favor of frost altho i atleast suspect foul play for some of the top parses as frost is ahead something like 1,5 mill dps and even if there isnt, frost is still ahead.

[Deleted]

well technically, i didnt attack you, if you actually read what i wrote in the part you quoted, you'd know, i simply called you out for doing what you're doing and you started attacking ppl that didnt agree with you well b4 i allegedly "attacked" you or rather disagreed with you but i guess that doesnt matter, oh well.....

well, here's the thing tho, it adds up, if every1 plays optimally then it isnt just 100-200k dps were talking about, it could potentially be millions of extra dps when you factor in the fact that you're there with 20 other ppl which is potentially 10-20% of a mythic boss' hp which is pretty huge and it will lead to faster kills etc. which is a good thing bcoz more time used for a kill means more chances for a wipe too. i also like that you say that "When frost has to do mechanics his dps is not so great anymore" which leads me to think you're not doing any mechanics ever, when in fact the dps loss from frost is significantly than arcane and fire as frost has way more abilities that they can use to dps while moving without loosing dps and are arguably by far the best spec to deal with mechanics as frost's survivability are vastly superior to both fire and arcane. oh and btw, thanks for prooving my point by writing the last bit of your post, clearly shows that my thoughts about you were spot on.

You know that Frost is 10% ahead (on live, on PTR difference is about 5%) only if:
1. Frost player is on the same skill level as Arcane player
2. Frost and Arcane have same ilvl

Yeah I may play Frost, do that amazing 100k dps more (if rng is good) and be like 1-2 places higher on chart, but srsly that 100k of difference is all about RNG luck (procs, mechanics stacked etc.).

And cut this shit about 'optimal' spec to play. It MAY be true if one spec is almost not viable when second one is god-like. Still great Arcane player will easily outdps avarage Frost player. And there is so many people playing FoTM characters who still underperform. Like you said before I am in semi-crappy guild, so we don't really care who is playing what as log as he is doing his job. Boss will die anyway, it doesn't matter if he dies 1min later

To sum up, dps is ONLY important when your guild is barely hitting dps check.

Btw. you like that 'OPTIMAL OP FULL DPS PERFECT GODPLAY' here are warcraftlogs for 99%. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#dataset=99
Arcane is slightly below Frost

Arcane is just underrepresented. There is almost no good players playing this spec.

[Erolian]

I'm not going to say arcane is the worst spec in the game. Its not. That's a misleading use of statistics though. If anyone was ever curious how much arcane depends on AE and adds I'd suggest swapping those statistics to simply boss damage rather than overall damage. I think its fairly obvious that if your raid isn't lacking in the burst AoE department there's a rather large discrepancy between the specs if you're concerned with trying to do your best.

That being said doing whatever you want in most guilds is acceptable. You're not often in a situation where simply playing better isn't overwhelmingly the fastest route to doing better for everyone in the raid

[stomination]

thats fine but the fact remains that you're simply not playing optimally, you'd still prolly be able to do 10-20% more dps simply due to how frost and the encounters are designed, you playing arcane is fine but ultimately it just means you're too selfish to play optimally for your guild and doesnt take progression seriously enough and there is nothing wrong with that as long as you're aware that you prolly slowed down your guild's progression bcoz of that and ofc your guildleader is ok with you playing it.

i find it funny that you seem to have this notion that if you cant refute a person's post you instead turn to attack them in some way like in the post i quoted, you've done this consistently, it doesnt increase your credibility, in fact it reduces it, making you seem extremely biased and petty, as you cant seem to accept the fact that arcane is a pretty poor spec overall, the sims show it, the logs show it and every1 knows it, atleast compared to frost.

Yea mate u might gain 200k dps!

[Deleted]

How doing 100k dps less can slow down your progression, you won't even feel the difference between doing 1kk or 1.1kk dps. Furthermore, I was playing with many Frost mages, and I haven't seen a single Frost mage who would make me feel bad about playing Arcane, especially during progression. When frost has to do mechanics his dps is not so great anymore. Moreover, Mythic is all about doing mechanics while not going below dps check, higher dps comes later. You sound like a guy who clears content only after he outgears it by miles so he can skip most/hardest mechanics by simply skipping them by doing high dps . But oh well, FoTM players are always like that, they trying to hide their lack of skill behind strongest classes in the game

big talk for big idiot xd

[Deleted]

So how is this stuff above all related to the topic of this tread its about tv build not about how good arcane vs frost is so please argu somewhere els pretty please im actualy reading stuff that i hope to be usefull

[Soulwell]

So how is this stuff above all related to the topic of this tread its about tv build not about how good arcane vs frost is so please argu somewhere els pretty please im actualy reading stuff that i hope to be usefull

Welcome to the Mage forums, where s bunch of 13 year olds complain about anything they can while making each other feel bad with lackluster pissing contests that just lead into personal attacks. The best part is that most of them are probably still progressing through heroic.

[Deleted]

So how is this stuff above all related to the topic of this tread its about tv build not about how good arcane vs frost is so please argu somewhere els pretty please im actualy reading stuff that i hope to be usefull

Let me sum it up for you.

TV is still strong, but Frost is not so ahead of other 2 specs anymore. Some people do not like this fact, that is why this became Arcane vs Frost topic (Fire also looks very strong on PTR with new legendaries + tier set, but I know nothing about this spec tho). Main reason of this 'discussion' was to prove that TV is not only viable build/spec.

[MV Kaa]

So how is this stuff above all related to the topic of this tread its about tv build not about how good arcane vs frost is so please argu somewhere els pretty please im actualy reading stuff that i hope to be usefull

Because you dont need a thread for this. GS sims higher than TV. end post

[Deleted]

Because you dont need a thread for this. GS sims higher than TV. end post

in fact, its the spec that sims the highest ofc all our specs atm.

[Deleted]

Let me sum it up for you.

TV is still strong, but Frost is not so ahead of other 2 specs anymore. Some people do not like this fact, that is why this became Arcane vs Frost topic (Fire also looks very strong on PTR with new legendaries + tier set, but I know nothing about this spec tho). Main reason of this 'discussion' was to prove that TV is not only viable build/spec.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...legion/naustis

why u chattin at people when u havent killed guldan man smfh