An United North America

[Techno-Druid]

I've seen some discussion on what a hypothetical united Europe and a united Africa would look like, but what about an United North America? This is purely hypothetical and I'm not pushing for a NAU (at least not yet), but I think it would be interesting to talk about what the economy, culture, demographics and military power of a North American Federation.

I imagine the dominant languages would be English and Spanish with a large French-speaking minority (Quebec and Haiti). Majority Christian with a large irreligious and Jewish minority, a smaller minority being Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs and other religions. Don't know where the capital would be.

Just to be clear, I'm counting Canada, US and Mexico as well as Central America and the Caribbean.

[GennGreymane]

Would look like how it does now for the most part if it is just US/Canada/Mexico/Caribbean

[Kraenen]

The only purpose would be economical and military (and maybe to have better control on immigration). I usually don't find it great to have federal authority expand, rather than contract - usually to the detriment of liberty and democracy. Simply put, why should Mexico have a say in what a Nunavutian can eat for dinner? This would go for most other issues until things like trade, some military alliances/pacts, and immigration agreements. Although most of that is probably in place (or at least its framework).

[ItachiZaku]

Canada don't want no part of us. Mexico and US want no part of each other. Caribbean is ours really.

[Skroe]

From an economic perspective, they've been the most integrated region in the world for decades. Politically, there are historic reasons why it won't happen. But that barely matters.

[Independent voter]

Germany benefits from the low euro, how? It helps them export goods, Mercedes cost a lot less in the US for example. How do they keep the euro low? They have poor countries like Greece in the euro zone.

If the US and other North American countries formed an economic zone, it would lower the value of the dollar and help US exports. There are some really poor countries who are North American, Mexico, Cuba for example. One dollar Canadian only buys 75 US cents for example.

[Foaming Clean]

In this hypothetical are you imagining that the relationship would function as the EU does now or a situation where an entirely new Country was formed?

[Techno-Druid]

In this hypothetical are you imagining that the relationship would function as the EU does now or a situation where an entirely new Country was formed?

Largely the latter, although discussing a North American Union (NAU) can also basically be lumped into this thread.

[GennGreymane]

From an economic perspective, they've been the most integrated region in the world for decades. Politically, there are historic reasons why it won't happen. But that barely matters.

To spell out this point more, North America has had very few internal conflicts compared to other regions. At this point each basically needs the other for various reasons and the relatively clam nature of relations led to that.

[Skroe]

To spell out this point more, North America has had very few internal conflicts compared to other regions. At this point each basically needs the other for various reasons and the relatively clam nature of relations led to that.

The United States geographic position is basically the greatest strategic asset any country has ever had.

(1) It spans an entire continent that is large, but not so vast as to be crippling to cross (compared to 14 time zone Russia).
(2) It is bordered by vast oceans to the east and west, and a large sea to the south.
(3) It's modest-population neighbor to the North shares a similar history and similar cultural, political and economic values.
(4) it's modest-population neighbor to the South has zero interest in military matters (for historic reasons) and had been friendly for a century. It has no means to become a rival power on the continent, but has enough means to be a useful economic partner.

The US has basically a free hand to be internationally activist until the end of time, because our "near abroad" is two oceans and friendlies. Even Germany has to worry about hard-to-intercept intermediate range missiles from Russia. The US has no such situation with Mexico or Canada.

This is another reason why Trump's Mexico-bashing has been painfully moronic. A strong Mexico that is a partner, in a positive feedback loop, strengthens the United States. But of course, the Mexico-thing, and immigration, is all about racist ethno-nationalism and playing to the alt-right's fears of American going brown in decades ahead.

[zenkai]

I've seen some discussion on what a hypothetical united Europe and a united Africa would look like, but what about an United North America? This is purely hypothetical and I'm not pushing for a NAU (at least not yet), but I think it would be interesting to talk about what the economy, culture, demographics and military power of a North American Federation.

I imagine the dominant languages would be English and Spanish with a large French-speaking minority (Quebec and Haiti). Majority Christian with a large irreligious and Jewish minority, a smaller minority being Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs and other religions. Don't know where the capital would be.

Just to be clear, I'm counting Canada, US and Mexico as well as Central America and the Caribbean.

US has nothing to gain and everything to lose, no thanks. NAFTA fucked things up enough as it is.

[NED funded]

Makig mexico-usa-canada work is already hard. Adding central america and the caribbean would be an impsoble task. Economically speaking it would be a mess. Not counting the problems with cocaine, illegal gold mining, illegal deforestation, lack of water/power/food, etc. I can see it working at best with Mexico and after heavy reforms. Canadians and the lot have too much problems.

[Independent voter]

It would be cheaper to build a wall along the Mexican Southern border.

But seriously, if the US and Mexico formed a country, 3/4ths of Mexicans would move to the US. You can't even drink the tap water in most of Mexico.

[Puupi]

If the US and Mexico joined together it would take about 50 years for Mexico City to be the capital and Spanish being the lingua franca.

[GennGreymane]

Makig mexico-usa-canada work is already hard. Adding central america and the caribbean would be an impsoble task. Economically speaking it would be a mess. Not counting the problems with cocaine, illegal gold mining, illegal deforestation, lack of water/power/food, etc. I can see it working at best with Mexico and after heavy reforms. Canadians and the lot have too much problems.

The Caribbean wouldn't be too bad. Many there get dual citizenship with the US and many US companies (mostly tourist) set up there. They are also pretty small countries and already depend heavily on the US and Canada.

[Techno-Druid]

It would be cheaper to build a wall along the Mexican Southern border.

But seriously, if the US and Mexico formed a country, 3/4ths of Mexicans would move to the US. You can't even drink the tap water in most of Mexico.

While I think there would be a large Mexican migration to US and Canada, I think the infrastructure of certain places in Mexico would also improve.

[Deleted]

canadians would draw the short stick because they have to give up various things they have but the USA doesn't in negotiations (healthcare comes to mind). mexico and any other countries included win the economy lottery. which is also why it won't happen, canada doesn't gain much and mexico is too costly to incorporate if there is no offsetting need to justify it.

don't think anyone not from the region would really notice. for adversaries USA and Canada are already very tight military allies. and for allies it won't make or break anything in trade partners.

Brazil might not like it tho, but not much they could do about it either. Panama canal control would be the only other really major thing if it came under more direct USA control (lets's face it they would be the dominant faction in any union)

[Macaquerie]

I'm definitely in favor of closer North American integration while simultaneously loosening ties with Europe. Our neighbors have never threatened us militarily and we have plenty of reasons to cooperate economically with them, whereas our supposedly closest allies in Britain and France seem to be on an irreversibly self-destructive spiral that we should try our best to avoid getting dragged into.

[Puupi]

I'm definitely in favor of closer North American integration while simultaneously loosening ties with Europe. Our neighbors have never threatened us militarily and we have plenty of reasons to cooperate economically with them, whereas our supposedly closest allies in Britain and France seem to be on an irreversibly self-destructive spiral that we should try our best to avoid getting dragged into.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexica...93American_War

[GennGreymane]

Honestly the relationship the Caribbean has today is equal to what Hawaii would have had, had it not become a state.