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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    He said he wanted the harem to be polyamorus instead of polygamous. This actually bothers you?
    He's said a lot more than that also yes changing sexualities does both me. Rand's harem largely functioned as a sisterhood they didn't fuck each other.

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    He's said a lot more than that also yes changing sexualities does both me. Rand's harem largely functioned as a sisterhood they didn't fuck each other.
    What else? All I've read is that he's more interested in polyamory. So what if their relationships change a bit, there are plenty of examples of sisterhood in the series.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    What else? All I've read is that he's more interested in polyamory. So what if their relationships change a bit, there are plenty of examples of sisterhood in the series.
    They have talked about how the show needs to be brought into 2020 he also flat out said when it was announced that he was focused on diversity in casting. Dude doesn't give a shit about the books or that the world being broken apart into homogeneous groups is important to the story since rejoining them into a whole is a big thing.

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    They have talked about how the show needs to be brought into 2020 he also flat out said when it was announced that he was focused on diversity in casting. Dude doesn't give a shit about the books or that the world being broken apart into homogeneous groups is important to the story since rejoining them into a whole is a big thing.
    There are ways for a world to be divided other than skin color. I always read the world of WoT being broken up by culture and ideals. There is one exception to this, being the Aiel. As long as they remain a group of pale red-heads, I don't see an issue at all with some people of the various groups having darker skin than others of the same group. It's such a minor thing that is constantly surprises me how bend outa shape some people seem to be getting over casting choices.

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    They have talked about how the show needs to be brought into 2020 he also flat out said when it was announced that he was focused on diversity in casting. Dude doesn't give a shit about the books or that the world being broken apart into homogeneous groups is important to the story since rejoining them into a whole is a big thing.
    Have read just about everything Judkins has had to say about the series and somehow I don't get this sense of doom and gloom or carelessness. What changes have been discussed are incredibly minor and this ire over a diverse cast or wanting to be more lgbt inclusive is absurd. The books were always that way, making it a bit more explicit for a modern audience, right or wrong, does little/nothing to violate their spirit. It's a fetish for some viewers at this point, and I suspect it's going to be like the anger over Picard - much sound and fury, little substance to complain about.

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Not Mongolian. The Borderlands were a mixed group, from a variety of sources (some of which RJ confirmed.)

    Shienarans were Japanese with a bit of Feudal Europe thrown in (knights, chivalry, castles.) Not sure what Kandor was but RJ stated that Saldaea was 'a number of Middle Eastern cultures and several cultures in countries surrounding the Black Sea' and Arafel was similar.

    Oh, and Malkier was Tibet. As someone observed, 'Malkier and Tibet have both disappeared under an evil empire that swallowed them up without reason, leaving behind one last leader as a touchstone for the kingdom itself.'

    The other nations are often a mix as well - The Aes Sedai are the Catholic Church/Papal State, Andor is England/United Kingdom, The Aiel were culturally according to RJ the Cheyenne, Apache, Zulu, Bedouin, Japanese, Berbers, but physically they are Vikings, Altara was Italy, including their physical looks, Amadacia were the Puritans, while the Whitecloaks were the Teutonic Knights, Arada Doman was Arabic/Persian with a little bit of Asia thrown in, Cairhien was French with a dash of Japan, Illian was Greek, Mayene is Cities of Hanseatic League, Venice, Genoa, the Sea Folk are a mix of Sub-Saharan African in looks initially though later they were a little more Indian, the Seanchan were Imperial China, Imperial Japan, Persian Empire, Ottoman and Byzantine Empire, but, according to RJ, they spoke with a Texan accent, the Sharan were African in appearance with a little bit of Imperial China (silk roads, closed ports etc), Tarabon was Arabic, and Tear was Spanish.
    Yeah for sure, I probably should've said East Asian-influenced more than Mongolian, but that's where my head goes between physical description and their (particularly the Shienaran's) cavalry fetish. But either way, based on the physical description and the cultural background I'm super happy with Lan's casting.

    The Seanchan speaking like Texans was a big whoosh moment for me before I started reading the WoT subreddit, it didn't click on my first read-through at all.

    All the cultural nods throughout the series is cool, I hope we get a lot of that in the show.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Except it's not. Elaidia only remarks on his skin color after she lifts a sleeve and notes how pale his untanned skin is. They have farmer tans aka sunkissed they aren't black the pattern is trying to hid him not put a giant neon sign on him saying this one is different.
    I'm not convinced, the entire first book has several people mention that Rand looks different to the others, between the height, the lighter eyes and the skin it's fairly obvious before Elaida pulls back his sleeve. But I guess that's personal interpretation for you - I just think the stink regarding the race of the actors is way overblown.

    If that ruins your anticipation for the show then I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm hyped.

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    Yeah for sure, I probably should've said East Asian-influenced more than Mongolian, but that's where my head goes between physical description and their (particularly the Shienaran's) cavalry fetish. But either way, based on the physical description and the cultural background I'm super happy with Lan's casting.

    The Seanchan speaking like Texans was a big whoosh moment for me before I started reading the WoT subreddit, it didn't click on my first read-through at all.

    All the cultural nods throughout the series is cool, I hope we get a lot of that in the show.

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    I'm not convinced, the entire first book has several people mention that Rand looks different to the others, between the height, the lighter eyes and the skin it's fairly obvious before Elaida pulls back his sleeve. But I guess that's personal interpretation for you - I just think the stink regarding the race of the actors is way overblown.

    If that ruins your anticipation for the show then I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm hyped.
    He looks different because of his height hair color and eyes. He looks Andoran even in TGH he is thought to be a member of the Andoran royal family because he looks Andoran but with red hair. It's absolutely not obvious which is why nobody else remarked on it. Again if someone is putting diversity above accuracy in casting which we also have Jordan's notes of who he saw as each character for it makes me incredibly worried about how badly they will butcher other stuff such as collaring the young black women they have cast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzit View Post
    There are ways for a world to be divided other than skin color. I always read the world of WoT being broken up by culture and ideals. There is one exception to this, being the Aiel. As long as they remain a group of pale red-heads, I don't see an issue at all with some people of the various groups having darker skin than others of the same group. It's such a minor thing that is constantly surprises me how bend outa shape some people seem to be getting over casting choices.
    Because it's not minor lol if it was minor people wouldn't be getting such a hard on from it who don't give a shit about the books.

    It's like deciding Luke Cage is randomly going to be white because they aren't enough white boys in Harlem.

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Because it's not minor lol if it was minor people wouldn't be getting such a hard on from it who don't give a shit about the books.

    It's like deciding Luke Cage is randomly going to be white because they aren't enough white boys in Harlem.
    2 things. Luke Cage takes place in a world where skin color maters. As I said, that isn't really the case in WoT. Culture matters. And second, the fact that Luke Cage is black is a major component of his character. Changing that changes who he is. Can the same be said for any WoT character? Again, outside of the Aiel.

    All I see is a bunch of people who had a certain image of the characters when they read the books and now just cannot get that image out of their minds and for some reason the fact that the casting for a TV show is different than what they imagined makes them really angry. Get over it. Or at the very least, wait until the series is actually out before throwing a hissy fit. Make-up, costumes, lighting, set design, ect can do a lot. The series isn't going to be a bunch of head shots walking around reciting lines from the books.

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    He looks different because of his height hair color and eyes. He looks Andoran even in TGH he is thought to be a member of the Andoran royal family because he looks Andoran but with red hair. It's absolutely not obvious which is why nobody else remarked on it. Again if someone is putting diversity above accuracy in casting which we also have Jordan's notes of who he saw as each character for it makes me incredibly worried about how badly they will butcher other stuff such as collaring the young black women they have cast.
    Fair, I actually can't find a source in the book that remarks on his skin colour, except the wiki that states he's a "pale-skinned half-Aielman", but that isn't necessarily relative to the other Two Rivers folk.

    Nonetheless, I still think it's slightly blowing things out of proportion. However, if it's only the slippery slope that you're worried about then I guess all I can suggest is waiting 'til it's out. Given Rafe and others' enthusiasm so far I've seen via social media I can't imagine they'd avoid the harder themes such as slavery/collaring that appear throughout the book in the name of diversity/progressiveness or whatever other justification.

    Don't get me wrong though, I'm avidly for the cultural diversity that is apparent in the books, I want the Cairhienin to typically be short, the Borderlanders to be mostly East-Asian and the Aiel to be big white gingers, I guess my point really is that within my reading of the book I can imagine the castings so far to be these characters and the disparity between Rand and the others isn't all that big a deal. I'll take the best actor for the job over perfect representation of the cultural diversity in the series within reasonable bounds.

    That being said, another point is that skin colour in the books doesn't seem all that important. Apart from the occasional remark that Tuon is very dark, the Aiel are pale and a lot of Saldeans are tan it's not often mentioned. This suggests to me that many cultures weren't all that homogeneous when it comes to skin colour (the Seanchan for certain, but this is specifically remarked just between Egeanin being white and Tuon being black, a stark difference between people of the same nation).

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzit View Post
    2 things. Luke Cage takes place in a world where skin color maters. As I said, that isn't really the case in WoT. Culture matters. And second, the fact that Luke Cage is black is a major component of his character. Changing that changes who he is. Can the same be said for any WoT character? Again, outside of the Aiel.

    All I see is a bunch of people who had a certain image of the characters when they read the books and now just cannot get that image out of their minds and for some reason the fact that the casting for a TV show is different than what they imagined makes them really angry. Get over it. Or at the very least, wait until the series is actually out before throwing a hissy fit. Make-up, costumes, lighting, set design, ect can do a lot. The series isn't going to be a bunch of head shots walking around reciting lines from the books.
    Color does matter when it's different from the norm it's remarked upon such as Tuon the thing is randland is one continent it's not the entire world and it's an analog to medieval europe. I won't be watching the series because it's going to be shitting on RJ's grave people like you don't want to hear it but he literally had a cast list for facial types skin color etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    Fair, I actually can't find a source in the book that remarks on his skin colour, except the wiki that states he's a "pale-skinned half-Aielman", but that isn't necessarily relative to the other Two Rivers folk.

    Nonetheless, I still think it's slightly blowing things out of proportion. However, if it's only the slippery slope that you're worried about then I guess all I can suggest is waiting 'til it's out. Given Rafe and others' enthusiasm so far I've seen via social media I can't imagine they'd avoid the harder themes such as slavery/collaring that appear throughout the book in the name of diversity/progressiveness or whatever other justification.

    Don't get me wrong though, I'm avidly for the cultural diversity that is apparent in the books, I want the Cairhienin to typically be short, the Borderlanders to be mostly East-Asian and the Aiel to be big white gingers, I guess my point really is that within my reading of the book I can imagine the castings so far to be these characters and the disparity between Rand and the others isn't all that big a deal. I'll take the best actor for the job over perfect representation of the cultural diversity in the series within reasonable bounds.

    That being said, another point is that skin colour in the books doesn't seem all that important. Apart from the occasional remark that Tuon is very dark, the Aiel are pale and a lot of Saldeans are tan it's not often mentioned. This suggests to me that many cultures weren't all that homogeneous when it comes to skin colour (the Seanchan for certain, but this is specifically remarked just between Egeanin being white and Tuon being black, a stark difference between people of the same nation).
    The thing is they likely aren't the best actors for the job the idiot literally said he was going to be pushing for diversity in his announcement of being showrunner.

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Color does matter when it's different from the norm it's remarked upon such as Tuon the thing is randland is one continent it's not the entire world and it's an analog to medieval europe. I won't be watching the series because it's going to be shitting on RJ's grave people like you don't want to hear it but he literally had a cast list for facial types skin color etc.
    You mean from that list where Lan and Faile are both white despite being East Asian in the books? Where Tuon's ideal casting is a farcry from the ebony she's described as?

    So you only take issue we're not casting white people when you think they should be, as opposed to casting white people in non-white roles?

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    You mean from that list where Lan and Faile are both white despite being East Asian in the books? Where Tuon's ideal casting is a farcry from the ebony she's described as?

    So you only take issue we're not casting white people when you think they should be, as opposed to casting white people in non-white roles?
    Lan isn't east asian in the book lol. You are associating culture with race which it isn't in randland. I take issue when things are changed from the original work such as changing the ancient one to a white woman to not offend china by reminding them tibet exists.

  13. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    You are associating culture with race which it isn't in randland.
    r/whoosh

    So Faile and the rest of the Saldaeans aren't described as having tilted eyes and a tan complexion? Why didn't RJ adhere to that in his casting?

  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    r/whoosh

    So Faile and the rest of the Saldaeans aren't described as having tilted eyes and a tan complexion? Why didn't RJ adhere to that in his casting?
    Not a whoosh we have Jordan's notes as to who he was imagining. If you want to shit on the work of an author just say that you want to shit on their work you aren't fooling anyone who knows anything about the series. Much like the only people Rafe is fooling are the morons who cheer diversity for the sake of diversity even if it means tramping over an author's original intention. Make no mistake if Jordan was alive still this cast would look very different and he most likely wouldn't be happy that someone who considers themselves red ajah was in charge of it so Rafe would probably not be. Sadly Rafe has license to shit all over a timeless work so I simply won't be watching.

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Not a whoosh we have Jordan's notes as to who he was imagining. If you want to shit on the work of an author just say that you want to shit on their work you aren't fooling anyone who knows anything about the series. Much like the only people Rafe is fooling are the morons who cheer diversity for the sake of diversity even if it means tramping over an author's original intention. Make no mistake if Jordan was alive still this cast would look very different and he most likely wouldn't be happy that someone who considers themselves red ajah was in charge of it so Rafe would probably not be. Sadly Rafe has license to shit all over a timeless work so I simply won't be watching.
    I mean, at this point I'm struggling to see any actual point you have that isn't just "I'm mad because there are less white people".

  16. #436
    This is kind of like arguing over what color Moraine's horse is going to be. Because, GODDAMIT, it was white on the book cover. And we all know that the color of a horse makes a huge impact on the story @_@

  17. #437
    I dunno...Rand coloration was a point in the books, with his reddish hair and gray eyes...Looks more like an Aiel...
    Acquittal doesn't mean exoneration


  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by Redwyrm View Post
    This is kind of like arguing over what color Moraine's horse is going to be. Because, GODDAMIT, it was white on the book cover. And we all know that the color of a horse makes a huge impact on the story @_@
    Oh god don't say that! What if they make Bela the white horse?? Do these people even care about authenticity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Color does matter when it's different from the norm it's remarked upon such as Tuon the thing is randland is one continent it's not the entire world and it's an analog to medieval europe. I won't be watching the series because it's going to be shitting on RJ's grave people like you don't want to hear it but he literally had a cast list for facial types skin color etc.

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    The thing is they likely aren't the best actors for the job the idiot literally said he was going to be pushing for diversity in his announcement of being showrunner.
    Refusing to watch the show based on the skin color of some cast members is much more like shitting on the author's grave. He went to great pains to mix up culture and skin color which always suggested to me that one of his messages is that skin color isn't that important. I'd be shocked if he actually cared about this shit, were the man still alive. Just because you have a perfect cast in your mind doesn't mean you expect it to play out that way in a show based on your work.

    By all means don't watch something that bothers or offends you, but Wheel of Time media doesn't come around very often. Not sure if you're aware of the last time they tried to make a show but.... Oof. To me, even if they get everything wrong, I want to support the show just to help keep the idea alive, maybe give someone else a chance at cracking it downstream. Otherwise the property might go on ice and never come back.

  19. #439
    If they get everything wrong then it'll turn into GoT-lite, and no reason to watch.

    At which point no one will want to ever see a Wheel of Time series attempted.
    Acquittal doesn't mean exoneration


  20. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    If they get everything wrong then it'll turn into GoT-lite, and no reason to watch.

    At which point no one will want to ever see a Wheel of Time series attempted.
    I'll still watch, love these books too much to miss even small scraps of something tied in.

    To be clear, having followed the development of this show really closely for months, I think they're going to nail it.

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