Wheel of Time TV Series In The Works

[Zaktar]

I've no idea! But I just love that character and cannot stop cheering for her throughout the series. She is just such a good and giving person, more so than anyone from the original characters.

Makes me wish I knew you, she is one of the best characters in the series - portrayed with so many flaws but if you look beyond them even a little, as you imply, she is one of the most purely good people we get to meet. She reaches beyond all those flaws to grasp her duty to the people she cares most about, and that always seems to be her guiding star. There's a reason she's the one Rand always comes back to when he's in need of someone to trust. "Mashiara" is one of my favorite chapters in any of the books, always excited to get to that point.

[Gallahadd]

I am still not ready for the Chain of Dogs. Or the Children of the Dead Seed.

If anyone ever tells me they ARE ready for the Children of the Dead Seed, I'm immediately calling the police...

[Xath]

Wow, considering the extent they'll butcher the story as written by the books to adapt it for the screen, people are actually pretending the skin colour of actresses is going to lessen their enjoyment more than that?

Imagine going on a forum to pretend your a fan of a book series but at the same time claiming the skin colour of the characters was the most compelling part. And then hoping anyone with a brain would take you remotely seriously. What japes.

Please tell us more about how appearance is critical to 99% of the storyline of WoT, its fascinating.

Not pretending anything the only people pretending to be fans are the ones who claim Edmond's Field not being homogeneous doesn't matter. That the world specifically being broken apart into clusters and then brought together by the dragon also isn't important.

[Corvus]

What are you basing this on?

My job involves keeping up to date on what is going on with books and publishing, all the trends etc. Right now YA is an absolute toxic mess over such very subjects. Someone already mentioned Amelie Wen Zhao and her book Blood Heir - that is just the tip of the iceberg. Self appointed gatekeepers have determined what they perceive as right in the industry and woe betide any author who strays from that narrow path. Review bombing is among the least problematic of what is set upon the authors. Publishers are pressured to abandon unpublished books, authors forced to go on apology tours and careers are sought to be ruined.

I was at a talk a year and a half back with a YA author who was, among other things, decrying that fact that there were only FIVE books written from an Asian migrant POV. Then she went on to say ONLY FIVE again in a screeching fake sincere/fake outraged voice. So of course she had to write a book from that POV, but then she went on to say mere plebs like us shouldn't try that because it was cultural appropriation. It was all right for her to do it though, because she understood them and she was so much better than us.

There is a bit of a paradox going on in YA. They demand more books written about minorities but at the same time you can't dare write about it because it would be cultural appropriation.

Back to Blood Heir. The author, a Chinese woman, wrote a book in which there are depictions of slavery, based on examples in Asia and not of American slavery. No problem there, right? Wrong. Before the book was even published, certain gatekeepers had descended on it like a ton of bricks, having misinterpreted a book they hadn't even read yet. They could only see slavery from an American perspective and read everything through that narrow lens.

You can expect the same to happen with WOT the show as well.

[Rennadrel]

Wow, considering the extent they'll butcher the story as written by the books to adapt it for the screen, people are actually pretending the skin colour of actresses is going to lessen their enjoyment more than that?

Imagine going on a forum to pretend your a fan of a book series but at the same time claiming the skin colour of the characters was the most compelling part. And then hoping anyone with a brain would take you remotely seriously. What japes.

Please tell us more about how appearance is critical to 99% of the storyline of WoT, its fascinating.

To be fair, RJ makes it pretty clear in the books that each major region is defined by how people look as well as their behavior patterns. There aren't a lot of mixed ethnic characters, especially those that have prominent roles, but most of the civilizations are mixes of real life examples. That's kind of why I feel like the whole thing will be half assed, because it's pretty difficult to actually just have single locales with people that reflect one culture when that culture is a mix of our own.

[Corvus]

lil bit, yeah. I mean, people thought the Red Wedding was shocking... they are NOT ready for the Chain of Dogs.

I'd watch the hell out of the Chain of Dogs, even knowing what happens. It is such an epic, epic tragedy.

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Looking forward to seeing this show. I have a feeling it will be closer in quality to a CW show (not good) than GoT but I hope I'm wrong. It can't be Sword of Truth level of bad though right?

I actually didn't mind Legend of the Seeker - it was corny and didn't take itself too seriously. And most importantly, it avoided a lot of the problems that were in the books.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Look up Amélie Wen Zhao’s 'Blood Heir'. Now imagine the reaction if it had been a TV series, and not a book.

So from a quick google it seems like some people complained the writer/team paused the release and looked into it then put out eh e book any ways and it’s sitting at a 4/5 for reviews.

I’m not quite sure why this would make any one think they can’t put slavery in a show.

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My job involves keeping up to date on what is going on with books and publishing, all the trends etc. Right now YA is an absolute toxic mess over such very subjects. Someone already mentioned Amelie Wen Zhao and her book Blood Heir - that is just the tip of the iceberg. Self appointed gatekeepers have determined what they perceive as right in the industry and woe betide any author who strays from that narrow path. Review bombing is among the least problematic of what is set upon the authors. Publishers are pressured to abandon unpublished books, authors forced to go on apology tours and careers are sought to be ruined.

I was at a talk a year and a half back with a YA author who was, among other things, decrying that fact that there were only FIVE books written from an Asian migrant POV. Then she went on to say ONLY FIVE again in a screeching fake sincere/fake outraged voice. So of course she had to write a book from that POV, but then she went on to say mere plebs like us shouldn't try that because it was cultural appropriation. It was all right for her to do it though, because she understood them and she was so much better than us.

There is a bit of a paradox going on in YA. They demand more books written about minorities but at the same time you can't dare write about it because it would be cultural appropriation.

Back to Blood Heir. The author, a Chinese woman, wrote a book in which there are depictions of slavery, based on examples in Asia and not of American slavery. No problem there, right? Wrong. Before the book was even published, certain gatekeepers had descended on it like a ton of bricks, having misinterpreted a book they hadn't even read yet. They could only see slavery from an American perspective and read everything through that narrow lens.

You can expect the same to happen with WOT the show as well.

Well that’s all fine and dandy none of it is really relevent either. WoT isn’t a new series with a author who can be bullied and as far as I can tell it hasn’t gotten any new wave of hate because of slavery with all the news about the show. Books also tend to be treated differently then shows and you really can’t just point to a book that still came out apparently unchanged is sitting at a 4/5 stars and say that shows that they will change a show in any way.

[fooliuscaesar13]

Hope its better than the The Shannara Chronicles. I would sleep a little bit better if so :P

I actually didn't mind this show, but I also had never read any of the books and had LOW expectations. It was basically background noise for when I was linking chainmail.

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Does the expression "Wake n Bake" mean anything round your parts....

*cough* My bad lol

This...is a requirement for my job. lol.

I'll be the first to admit I often fail to get much more out of a story than the narrative, and things like "themes" or more subtle stuff often goes over my head,

I need to start using this when I talk to people about books / shows. Thanks for phrasing it like this, as I'm very similar. The only themes in a book series that I picked up on are obviously themes, such as the political and religious manipulations in the Dune series.
This is also probably why I enjoy so many book series / tv shows. I don't follow enough of the subtleties to want to take to the internet and rip it apart I guess.
Ignorance truly is bliss.

[Shadowferal]

I mean . . . one in three episodes was torture porn.

Terry Goodkind..hmf...libertarian...same vein as Ayn Rand.
As an acquaintance of mine posted; I stopped reading after Faith of the Fallen when Goodkind stops being a fantasy writer with Randian overtones and just makes Richard Rahl into John Galt. The rest started to degenerate into an Objectivism/rapefest. The problem with Faith of the Fallen is that it's less a fantasy novel than a philosophy lesson (it's less rapey than the last two books). I suppose you if don't mind that sort of thing it's fine however after reading the first five books and watching them slide from storytelling to ham-fisted indoctrination with a bunch of gratuitous rape scenes, S&M bodyguards, and naughty nuns thrown in, it just got really tiresome.

[Gallahadd]

I’m not quite sure why this would make any one think they can’t put slavery in a show.

People complained about the book featuring slavery. Nearly got the whole thing cancelled. They had to bring in a writing assistant to redo parts of the book.

And that was just some YA book that most people only heard of, because of the controversy.

Now imagine the backlash when a large TV series on a major streaming platform features a plotline where a young black women gets taken into slavery.

I'd LOVE to think that people would wait for the arc to play out, before reacting, so they can see if the subject is handled well. But we all know they wont.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

People complained about the book featuring slavery. Nearly got the whole thing cancelled. They had to bring in a writing assistant to redo parts of the book.

And that was just some YA book that most people only heard of, because of the controversy.

Now imagine the backlash when a large TV series on a major streaming platform features a plotline where a young black women gets taken into slavery.

I'd LOVE to think that people would wait for the arc to play out, before reacting, so they can see if the subject is handled well. But we all know they wont.

I would expect it to go down exactly like game of thrones we’re some people complain about stuff like that but it’s still in the shown. Given that the guy making the show has already shown a back bone on other topics I see no reason to think they’ll shy away from a key character point which is about the bad guys using slaves. Hell if any thing I’d expect it to be played up even more to make them look even worse.

[Shadowferal]

Leashes and slavery were indeed a major plot point.
And there in lies the worry about what was said in "modernizing" the script...
If they try to change that in any way...I'll give this half a season of disgust.

[Gallahadd]

Hell if any thing I’d expect it to be played up even more to make them look even worse.

There is always that possibility, yes. As they say, there's no such thing as bad press.

I mean, shit. I still think they put so much sex in the early GoT seasons, and made it as graphic as they did to stir up the controversy.

[Xath]

It wasn't even just slavery. The Seanchan completely dehumanize their slaves. They treat them like favored pets at best, furniture at worst.

Yup they psychologically break them it's not exactly going to be uncontroversial if it's an accurate representation of the book.

[Xath]

But they are the villains. Why is it controversial if the bad guys do bad things? At most it is an indictment of post-modernism, which is what Jordan's approach is; he doesn't try to sugar coat it and he takes every opportunity to be appaled by how their culture normalizes it. In no way does it suggest that slavery is OK.

Well if I was to think like a "woke "journalist"" looking for outrage. The Seanchan are a multi race culture and morr importantly the only leash holders are women so it's women enslaving women not evil white men. I can see that very much not going down well. Also violence against women in general tends to be decried regardless of if being done by the bad guys.

Also they really can't change the gender of the leash holders for multiple reasons but one more important than the rest.

[Xath]

The Seanchan keep slaves in general, not just damane. And the reason there are no male damane is that they just kill all male wilders.

I'm aware but they are also going to have women dragging around leashed ones like pets including principal cast who are black. That's going to get as much rage or more than the Sansa rape.

[Shadowferal]

Well, the trick is getting an audience to see Matt as the Seachan's Raven Prince...that will get things changed. (It'll help when he asks Artur Hawkwing to have a chat with Tuon) I think if we were to see an epilogue of their empire, we'd see some dramatic reforms getting worked on by this ta'veren

[Xath]

The Seanchan keep slaves in general, not just damane. And the reason there are no male damane is that they just kill all male wilders.

To add to this I'm currently re-listening to the books at work just reached the point in book 2 where Egwene gets collared and the level of rage I have at the piece of crap leash holders is at an astounding level. The matter of fact talking about removing of hands and tongues and that they are just matter of fact about it there is no way in hell that doesn't provoke outrage happening to a young black women. Within minutes of being collared that chapter basically turns into torture porn and it's not even something that particular holder takes pleasure from it's just used as a tool.

[Zaktar]

To add to this I'm currently re-listening to the books at work just reached the point in book 2 where Egwene gets collared and the level of rage I have at the piece of crap leash holders is at an astounding level. The matter of fact talking about removing of hands and tongues and that they are just matter of fact about it there is no way in hell that doesn't provoke outrage happening to a young black women. Within minutes of being collared that chapter basically turns into torture porn and it's not even something that particular holder takes pleasure from it's just used as a tool.

What always creeped me out most was the pleasure aspect of training damane - it's often not torture that they use, it's reward based conditioning, and it turns people into something like a dog. A Sul'dam's beloved pet, which they care for and take responsibility for. The whole mindset is creepy as hell, and to me seems like a very blunt look at slavery. I'm interested to see how the showrunners handle it as well, because it will be very difficult to navigate. The racial aspect you're concerned about will be muted by the fact that Seanchan have people of different races collared. If I were a betting person, I would bet that Egwene gets collared as a cliffhanger, and is freed by the end of the next episode. Some people probably will complain, and it wouldn't be shocking if there were controversy - hell it could benefit the show. Most of the criticism will eventually be muted by the fact that her being collared isn't just done for shock value, it's a critical piece of the storyline and the trauma of that experience stays with Egwene for the rest of the series. I think the writers can handle it, but of course only time will tell.

[Noxina]

Let's be real here, if people don't complaing during this show, they did it wrong.