Link-Strike Combat Mechanic Concept

[Zantesuken]

This is something I've been toying around with in my thoughts for a while and I wanted to share it here to see what people would think of it. Basically I think it would be awesome to see Link-Strikes added as a combat mechanic. Essentially Link Strikes are combo abilities that require two players to execute. The opening movie of FF14 actually demonstrates this with a WHM using what looks like Enfire on the Bard that allows the Bard to unleash a powerful attack. I would personally love to see this type of gameplay in the game. I have no idea how you would implement it though. I thought about maybe having a Link gauge similar to the Limit break gauge, but that seems too bland. Ideas on how to implement something like this would be appreciated The following could be examples of LS combos...

- Tank + Tank = Wall: Applies a shield to all party or raid members for 20% of their maximum HP. Lasts for 30 seconds.
- Tank + Healer = Mediguard: Reduce a party member's damage taken by 30% for 10 seconds and applies Regen.
- Healer + Healer = Pray: Channeled. Restores 10% of maximum health per second to all party or raid members for 6 seconds.
- Healer + DPS = Haste: Skill Speed and Spell Speed of all party or raid members is increased by 15% for 15 seconds.
- mDPS + mDPS = Beat Rush: Deliver three attacks in quick succession against a single target. Each strike deals damage with a potency of 400 with the last strike dealing critical damage.
- rDPS + rDPS = Meteorain: Summons 7 small Meteors at the location, each dealing area damage with a potency of 100.
- rDPS + mDPS = Energy Rain: Each player fires 5 bolts of energy at a single target, each dealing damage with a potency of 50. The target then explodes dealing area damage with a potency of 300.


These are just examples and there could be many more combos than the ones listed here. What do you guys think?

[Wrecktangle]

This is something I've been toying around with in my thoughts for a while and I wanted to share it here to see what people would think of it. Basically I think it would be awesome to see Link-Strikes added as a combat mechanic. Essentially Link Strikes are combo abilities that require two players to execute. The opening movie of FF14 actually demonstrates this with a WHM using what looks like Enfire on the Bard that allows the Bard to unleash a powerful attack. I would personally love to see this type of gameplay in the game. I have no idea how you would implement it though. I thought about maybe having a Link gauge similar to the Limit break gauge, but that seems too bland. Ideas on how to implement something like this would be appreciated The following could be examples of LS combos...

- Tank + Tank = Wall: Applies a shield to all party or raid members for 20% of their maximum HP. Lasts for 30 seconds.
- Tank + Healer = Mediguard: Reduce a party member's damage taken by 30% for 10 seconds and applies Regen.
- Healer + Healer = Pray: Channeled. Restores 10% of maximum health per second to all party or raid members for 6 seconds.
- Healer + DPS = Haste: Skill Speed and Spell Speed of all party or raid members is increased by 15% for 15 seconds.
- mDPS + mDPS = Beat Rush: Deliver three attacks in quick succession against a single target. Each strike deals damage with a potency of 400 with the last strike dealing critical damage.
- rDPS + rDPS = Meteorain: Summons 7 small Meteors at the location, each dealing area damage with a potency of 100.
- rDPS + mDPS = Energy Rain: Each player fires 5 bolts of energy at a single target, each dealing damage with a potency of 50. The target then explodes dealing area damage with a potency of 300.


These are just examples and there could be many more combos than the ones listed here. What do you guys think?

On one hand, I would love a mechanic like this in WoW where my brother and I are two 99% parsing players for our specs and can practically read each others mind.

Blade and Soul uses a very offensive version of this system in its CC system. I.e. a boss might have 4 CC bars, which would require 2 players to use CC at close to simultaneously. You also have to use 2 of the same type of CC. I.e. Stun, Daze or Knockdown. It's actually a pretty fun system that has pretty fun mechanics interactions.

For instance one boss has a mechanic where a lava wave sweeps across the floor from a random direction (so positioning/awareness is important). The goal is to have 2 players stun, and one knock the boss up, typically delaying it as long as possible while the fire wave passes underneath. The remaining party members need to use defensive cooldowns to evade the fire wave as to not stack a pretty massive stacking fire DoT. If the boss gets touched he gets empowered and heals, making the DPS check considerably more difficult.

I actually like your suggestion if SQEX could build content to work with it. I'd prefer they be more exciting than what you've proposed.

Something like DRG and NIN might create 2 different link attacks depending on who started and who ended. For instance of NIN started it could be a quick combo that ends in a somersault kick launching the enemy into the air while the DRG crashes downward.

Would definitely require massive changes to the existing combat paradigm though, but I'm always for more interactive combat and more synergy and engagement.

[RohanV]

Lord of the Rings Online used to have something like this. I forget what they called it, but essentially an ability bar would pop up, each person choose an ability, and the combination would result in different effects. I think players had to deliberately trigger it during a fight.

[Nikkaszal]

On one hand, I would love a mechanic like this in WoW where my brother and I are two 99% parsing players for our specs and can practically read each others mind.

Blade and Soul uses a very offensive version of this system in its CC system. I.e. a boss might have 4 CC bars, which would require 2 players to use CC at close to simultaneously. You also have to use 2 of the same type of CC. I.e. Stun, Daze or Knockdown. It's actually a pretty fun system that has pretty fun mechanics interactions.

For instance one boss has a mechanic where a lava wave sweeps across the floor from a random direction (so positioning/awareness is important). The goal is to have 2 players stun, and one knock the boss up, typically delaying it as long as possible while the fire wave passes underneath. The remaining party members need to use defensive cooldowns to evade the fire wave as to not stack a pretty massive stacking fire DoT. If the boss gets touched he gets empowered and heals, making the DPS check considerably more difficult.

I actually like your suggestion if SQEX could build content to work with it. I'd prefer they be more exciting than what you've proposed.

Something like DRG and NIN might create 2 different link attacks depending on who started and who ended. For instance of NIN started it could be a quick combo that ends in a somersault kick launching the enemy into the air while the DRG crashes downward.

Would definitely require massive changes to the existing combat paradigm though, but I'm always for more interactive combat and more synergy and engagement.

Wildstar did that CC chain thing originally. Every single enemy in the game could be stunned/silenced etc, but tougher mobs and all bosses would have "interrupt armour". That is, a boss with 2 IA would require two separate stuns to chunk off the IA, and then a third to finally stun it. The IA regenerated within seconds, so essentially you needed to co-ordinate groups of people to use their CC for specific mechanic checks.

It became frustrating more than anything, because of the nature of an MMO - unless you are in a dedicated group that you know and trust 100% of the time, you're at the mercy of randoms. In a game that was already tuned to be quite difficult, it was extra aggravating when you and the tank would be throwing out CC chains to counter a deadly mechanic, while the other lackwitted DPS hadn't even spec'd into a CC ability (or failed to use it). You'd take off half the IA, but because people didn't pull their weight it meant that it wouldn't be enough and the mechanic would go off and blast you anyway.

I mean hell... in FFXIV it's difficult enough to just get pugs to throw out Goad

[Dwill]

Lord of the Rings Online used to have something like this. I forget what they called it, but essentially an ability bar would pop up, each person choose an ability, and the combination would result in different effects. I think players had to deliberately trigger it during a fight.

They were called conjunction(later renamed to Fellowship Maneuver) and it was based on color combination( Green = HP, Blue= MP, Red = Raw damage and Yellow = DoT) that needed a minimum of 3 to have any effect and could have upward of 6 with different combination having different effects. They were either deliberately proc'ed as you mentioned by a class that specialized in utility or would occur randomly if a target was struck down(stunned/dazed) and was signature rank or higher.

It would be nice to have something similar in FFXIV.

[Wrecktangle]

Wildstar did that CC chain thing originally. Every single enemy in the game could be stunned/silenced etc, but tougher mobs and all bosses would have "interrupt armour". That is, a boss with 2 IA would require two separate stuns to chunk off the IA, and then a third to finally stun it. The IA regenerated within seconds, so essentially you needed to co-ordinate groups of people to use their CC for specific mechanic checks.

It became frustrating more than anything, because of the nature of an MMO - unless you are in a dedicated group that you know and trust 100% of the time, you're at the mercy of randoms. In a game that was already tuned to be quite difficult, it was extra aggravating when you and the tank would be throwing out CC chains to counter a deadly mechanic, while the other lackwitted DPS hadn't even spec'd into a CC ability (or failed to use it). You'd take off half the IA, but because people didn't pull their weight it meant that it wouldn't be enough and the mechanic would go off and blast you anyway.

I mean hell... in FFXIV it's difficult enough to just get pugs to throw out Goad

BNS came out in 2012, so it did it first lol. That said yes Wildstar did use it, and yes in both of these examples being at the mercy of pugs sometimes does suck, but it's a nice layer of engagement IMO. I'm sure there's even a game before BNS that utilized some version of this idea too.

Regarding FF14, my personal belief is that the game doesn't do enough to engage a player. If they keep coddling the playerbase the majority is going to remain unable to do basic gameplay functions and then we're going to end up with some mobile game dress simulator instead of an MMORPG.

[Katchii]

This is something I've been toying around with in my thoughts for a while and I wanted to share it here to see what people would think of it. Basically I think it would be awesome to see Link-Strikes added as a combat mechanic. Essentially Link Strikes are combo abilities that require two players to execute. The opening movie of FF14 actually demonstrates this with a WHM using what looks like Enfire on the Bard that allows the Bard to unleash a powerful attack. I would personally love to see this type of gameplay in the game. I have no idea how you would implement it though. I thought about maybe having a Link gauge similar to the Limit break gauge, but that seems too bland. Ideas on how to implement something like this would be appreciated The following could be examples of LS combos...

- Tank + Tank = Wall: Applies a shield to all party or raid members for 20% of their maximum HP. Lasts for 30 seconds.
- Tank + Healer = Mediguard: Reduce a party member's damage taken by 30% for 10 seconds and applies Regen.
- Healer + Healer = Pray: Channeled. Restores 10% of maximum health per second to all party or raid members for 6 seconds.
- Healer + DPS = Haste: Skill Speed and Spell Speed of all party or raid members is increased by 15% for 15 seconds.
- mDPS + mDPS = Beat Rush: Deliver three attacks in quick succession against a single target. Each strike deals damage with a potency of 400 with the last strike dealing critical damage.
- rDPS + rDPS = Meteorain: Summons 7 small Meteors at the location, each dealing area damage with a potency of 100.
- rDPS + mDPS = Energy Rain: Each player fires 5 bolts of energy at a single target, each dealing damage with a potency of 50. The target then explodes dealing area damage with a potency of 300.


These are just examples and there could be many more combos than the ones listed here. What do you guys think?

FFXIV 1.0 had a mechanic similar to this. IIRC, you activated the link (called Skill Chain I think) to someone in your group and then when you performed moves in quick succession it gave a bonus to the action which was very similar to how the weapon skill system works in FFXI. In FFXIV, you do auto attacks to fill up your TP gauge, once you hit 100/200/300 you activate a weaponskill (higher levels just make them hit a little harder usually) and when another party member activates an appropriate weaponskill within a certain window of time after you get a skill chain which activates an elementally aligned spell that damages the enemy and THEN...if a spell is cast that is elementally aligned with the skill chain then you get a magic burst which enhances both the power and effect of that magic spell (a spell that blinded had the blind effect last longer and/ or be more potent, etc...)

Here's a link to the chart I used for YEARS with FFXI.

I would actually really like if they added something similar to this in FFXIV, it added a fun and relatively simple way to improve performance and forced people to engage with the group to determine what the ideal/ possible attacks were. That said, it did result in "ideal" groups being formed that neglected certain jobs. Nostalgia incoming: The most fun and effective group I ever had, which was one of the ideal compositions was Ninja/Warrior tank, White Mage Healer, Red Mage buff/debuff, Black Mage, Dark Knight/Thief and Samurai/Warrior doing Tachi: Kasha -> Sneak Attack+Trick Attack+Spinning Slash -> Light Skillchain with a well coordinated Flare, Tornado or Burst (spell) Magic Burst....the monster just melted.

[Zantesuken]

Sounds like a few other games have tried this. What do you guys think would be a good way to implement it into FFXIV?

[Faroth]

When I first read Linkstrike, I cringed because my thoughts incorrectly went to FFXV's warp strike and I wanted to hiss at that combat system. Then I realized you're trying to put a little Chrono Trigger (chocolate) in my FFXIV (peanut butter). =3

FFXI had skill chains as well. I'm not sure how they could/would translate into FFXIV, but they were pretty darn cool and were triggered by each player hitting their ability at the right time once a chain was initiated. FFXI was old school "set up camp and pull mobs to you and farm grind for xp" style, so I think the skill chains worked better for that, but I'd definitely like something similar in FFXIV.

- - - Updated - - -

BNS came out in 2012, so it did it first lol.

While not 100% 1:1 identical, I'd give the win to FFXI's skillchains in 2002 as contender for doing it first.


.... That darn @Katchii beat me to it!

[Zantesuken]

When I first read Linkstrike, I cringed because my thoughts incorrectly went to FFXV's warp strike and I wanted to hiss at that combat system. Then I realized you're trying to put a little Chrono Trigger (chocolate) in my FFXIV (peanut butter). =3

FFXI had skill chains as well. I'm not sure how they could/would translate into FFXIV, but they were pretty darn cool and were triggered by each player hitting their ability at the right time once a chain was initiated. FFXI was old school "set up camp and pull mobs to you and farm grind for xp" style, so I think the skill chains worked better for that, but I'd definitely like something similar in FFXIV.

- - - Updated - - -



While not 100% 1:1 identical, I'd give the win to FFXI's skillchains in 2002 as contender for doing it first.


.... That darn @Katchii beat me to it!

Well TBH FFXV was kind of the inspiration for this idea lol. But I don't like how bland it turned out in FFXV, so I was trying to come up with something that is more interactive and interesting. I never played FFXI but it sounds like they had a system similar to what I hope to see in FFXIV someday

EDIT: I read the link in your post and I'm absolutely in love with that combat mechanic!

[Wrecktangle]

Sounds like a few other games have tried this. What do you guys think would be a good way to implement it into FFXIV?

If I were wishlisting this I'd come up with this:

1) Bring back CC's (oGCD's). Every class should have them in differing flavors, i.e. ranged, melee, shorter cd, longer cd, aoe, not aoe, etc.
2) Regular enemies are always susceptible to CC.
3) Boss enemies might have 2 bars of CC resistance. In order to successfully CC it would require 2 players to use the same type of CC within say 2.5s of each other. Silence to silence, stun to stun, etc. Raids might have 3 bars.
4) Boss enemies have dangerous attacks that should be CC'd. They don't 1 shot you, but they're incredibly dangerous and powerful.
5) When a boss is vulnerable to a CC (say a cast timer aka silence, or general attack aka stun) and one person activates their CC, let's say a NIN does it a popup would appear on everyone's screen who is able to CC at the time (if your thing is on CD nothing shows up for you). let's say DRG hits the other CC. This "stuns" the boss briefly say (1GCD) 2.5s. During this time the 2 jobs that activated the CC's automatically do a link strike. Have different ones for each job combination and order combination. I.e. NIN -> DRG would be different than DRG -> NIN.

For instance as soon as boss was stunned DRG auto leaps in air NIN auto casts raiton and they combine into Ride the Lightning or something, which thematically is basically the DRG turning into a raiton empowered jump attack. This would boost the LB meter by a fair amount. if the opposite were activated first the NIN might jump onto the DRG's spear and get launched with a Gierskogul into a spinning slash or something.

I have no idea how you could tailor them defensively or activate them defensively. I'll leave that idea to someone else.

Wishlisting.

While not 100% 1:1 identical, I'd give the win to FFXI's skillchains in 2002 as contender for doing it first.

We were speaking strictly of the CC armor function and teaming up to take that down, was that in FF11 if so, credit is due, otherwise negative.

[Faroth]

We were speaking strictly of the CC armor function and teaming up to take that down, was that in FF11 if so, credit is due, otherwise negative.

Ah, I thought you were still referring to the skill chain concept in general, not the CC specific.

Carry on, then. Carry on.