Blizzard killed Mythic+ dungeons.

[Korban]

What's the point of running them now, apart maybe from one +15 for the weekly chest.

I used to chain run M+10 like an autist. It was fun for me and it gave me something to do with stable outcome (farm some item if you really wanted it).

Now everything is fucked over:

- difficulty upped
- loot drop nerfed
- loot ilevel the same
- key / time / depletion changes are for the worst
- less people care about it (less LFG pool)

Why?


EDIT: Well, 2 weeks later, M+ is still a total clusterfuck

Just incase you got a halls of valor / cathedral / black rook hold / lower kara keystone this week, don't worry... it'll be fine! Theres totally a lot of people who are willing to do your key. And with the new removal of 2 and 3 chests there is double the amount of applicants.

Im absolutely astounded how Blizzard would think this was a good idea

[Softbottom]

What's the point of running them now, apart maybe from one +15 for the weekly chest.

I used to chain run M+10 like an autist. It was fun for me and it gave me something to do with stable outcome (farm some item if you really wanted it).

Now everything is fucked over:

- difficulty upped
- loot drop nerfed
- loot ilevel the same
- key / time / depletion changes are for the worst
- less people care about it (less LFG pool)


Why?

There is no point other than to do a 15+. I think blizz shot themselves in the foot on this one. There was enough people doing them previous to the change; I don't know why blizz changed them. The difficulty portion will level out once you get TOS gear but that's besides the point. They offer less loot if you are able to 2-3 chest which is garbasso.

I think a big underlying issue with Mythic+ is it was originally so popular because it was the fastest way to earn AP (maw runs, etc). Once that initial grind was over I noticed a huge drop in Mythic+ groups. So it always makes me wonder if it wasn't the fastest way to earn AP would many people have even run them? probably not as many.

[Mlz]

Blizzard thinks that since all those who overgeared those +8 runs and so on will only do higher difficulties now, then worse geared people will group together and will try to push their lower keystones (as previously good keys got boosted, bad ones remained rotting in bags). That's the only reason I see Blizzard can argue for the new system. My suspicion is that people won't bother and low key runs will pretty much die out but can see I guess.

[Emerald Archer]

- difficulty upped

This is a non-issue, we'll quickly outgear those issues. Without the nerfs, 15s would be the equivilent of like an 8 was, just a few weeks after ToS.

[BagramDeus]

The issue is that M+ even right now is still too profitable even if nerfed from before. It's infinite heroic raid ilvl gear. If you compare it to the game it's something that completely changes and breaks the mold. Think about it, it's still far more profitable to do M+ than to do heroic NH, or even ToS once that comes out.

[Softbottom]

The issue is that M+ even right now is still too profitable even if nerfed from before. It's infinite heroic raid ilvl gear. If you compare it to the game it's something that completely changes and breaks the mold. Think about it, it's still far more profitable to do M+ than to do heroic NH, or even ToS once that comes out.

I feel like if you did a Normal and Heroic NH Speed runs in an afternoon (roughly 4 hours of time) You would get 100 million AP (if it's correct how the new AP works in NH since change) and Potentially get loot chance from 20 bosses. I did this with my priest and got him from 860ish ilvl to 896ish. The chances of you doing that by running mythic+ for 4 hours is no where near as high in my opinion. Obviously a lot of this depends on RNG also of course.

[Mamercus]

The issue is that M+ even right now is still too profitable even if nerfed from before. It's infinite heroic raid ilvl gear. If you compare it to the game it's something that completely changes and breaks the mold. Think about it, it's still far more profitable to do M+ than to do heroic NH, or even ToS once that comes out.

Definitely not the case. A good mythic guild can clear heroic in about an hour and something, generating dozens of pieces of 890+ gear with powerful tier bonuses.

I run into M+ pugs all the time who don't have tier bonuses and have terrible output despite inflated ilvls. Raids give better gear by a big margin. Mythic NH on farm is a shower of 905+ gear that can be cleared in a couple nights.

The only thing that made mythic NH worse for loot for so long was that for a big chunk of its active life we had weaker artifacts. Progress was also ultra time consuming with even the best guilds wiping hundreds of times on many bosses.

After 7.2 raid damage went way up. If ToS lasts significantly longer than NH then mythic will be an even better gear source relative to m+.

The main thing that M+ gives that raids don't really are the ability to farm for relics and other key pieces repetitively.

[dacoolist]

iLvl upgrades increase up to Mythic+15 once Mythic ToS releases: " Once the Tomb of Sargeras raid is available on Mythic difficulty, we’ll also increase the maximum rewards from Mythic Keystone runs to level 15 "
( http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...ystone-Changes )

So again, iLvl drops WILL be higher as long as you're completing higher keys (most of you are mythic raiders, you'll be running +15's the second Mythic ToS drops)

[Softbottom]

Definitely not the case. A good mythic guild can clear heroic in about an hour and something, generating dozens of pieces of 890+ gear with powerful tier bonuses.

I run into M+ pugs all the time who don't have tier bonuses and have terrible output despite inflated ilvls. Raids give better gear by a big margin. Mythic NH on farm is a shower of 905+ gear that can be cleared in a couple nights.

The only thing that made mythic NH worse for loot for so long was that for a big chunk of its active life we had weaker artifacts. Progress was also ultra time consuming with even the best guilds wiping hundreds of times on many bosses.

After 7.2 raid damage went way up. If ToS lasts significantly longer than NH then mythic will be an even better gear source relative to m+.

The main thing that M+ gives that raids don't really are the ability to farm for relics and other key pieces repetitively.

I was talking more so for the average player. I also agree M+ is dope for repeatability. But; for the average player who does let's say +4 to +8 and only raids normal and heroic; they are probably going to acquire more gear from running normal/heroic speed runs in 3-4 hours than running mythic+ for 3-4 hours. I say this strictly on the basis that most of the players in speed runs don't need the gear and it's a lootfest for someone who is leveling an alt. I literally got 12-13 peices of gear, 2 trinkets, and 3 relics after killing 20 bosses. That of course could be an anomaly because A) there were 25ish people in the run so lots of loot was available 2) there were tons of clothies in the raid 3) most people were just there for lege chance and some AP.

On the other hand; If you ran mythic+ at a 4-5 level and spammed them over and over again in a carry group you definately would acquire a good amount of gear if you had like armor type wearers in a group. All in all, a lot of it is RNG based at the same time.

[Deleted]

pushing high keys requires more quality now instead of only try hard quantity.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Same reasons as before things are just a bit more difficult.

[Osmeric]

The only possible explanation is that the devs thought people were running M+ too much and getting too much reward from them, compared to other content like raids or rated PvP.

[Emancptr]

pushing high keys requires more quality now instead of only try hard quantity.

It does the exact opposite of that. It requires more try hard quantity.

Because now you have to re-run every key that you don't 1-chest. This explicitly rewards the people that try hard and run their keys for 30+ hours each week (getting a ton of dungeons done and re-pushing keys that they fail). This punishes the quality groups that ran 1-2 keys for the week and stopped once they got to a dungeon/M+ level that they couldn't complete (usually 10ish hours each week).

Before the 7.2.5 changes you either "got good" and did the 23/24 key that you were handed or you weren't pushing higher. In 7.2.5 you don't have to "get good." You run your key 20+ times until the 19/20 dungeon is CoS/Nelth/Eye/HoV that are free dungeons to 1-chest. Then get a free 20/21 dungeon.

[Deleted]

What's the point of running them now, apart maybe from one +15 for the weekly chest.

I used to chain run M+10 like an autist. It was fun for me and it gave me something to do with stable outcome (farm some item if you really wanted it).

Now everything is fucked over:

- difficulty upped
- loot drop nerfed
- loot ilevel the same
- key / time / depletion changes are for the worst
- less people care about it (less LFG pool)


Why?

its almost as if they up ilvl in the near future and almost as if we get a new raid and therefor more power too.

[Deleted]

It was always intended for M+ to be challenging, for each player to try to push as high as possible for his gear&skilllevel.
It got to the point where geared people were just easily farming 3chest +10. It was no longer challenging, just a grindfest hoping for WF/TF gear.
These changes will result in people once again pushing the level they can get to instead of just facerolling +10.
These are good changes.

[Deleted]

Imagin the following example: You are a random player without much gear. You can chose between wasting around 20 mins to half an hour with other lonely people to grind content that awards mediocre loot this week. Or you farm some herbs, sell them and then head to the auction house and buy obliterumfor an optiomal 900 piece for around 15k gold or so. What would you do if u are smart?

I guess it will be better when rewards are scaled up next week

[Slicer299]

What's the point of running them now, apart maybe from one +15 for the weekly chest.

I used to chain run M+10 like an autist. It was fun for me and it gave me something to do with stable outcome (farm some item if you really wanted it).

Now everything is fucked over:

- difficulty upped
- loot drop nerfed
- loot ilevel the same
- key / time / depletion changes are for the worst
- less people care about it (less LFG pool)


Why?

- difficulty upped We're all about to jump about 40+ ilvls in gear, the difficulty needed to be increased accordingly.

- loot drop nerfed About the only valid gripe you make, since they've stated point blank it's supposed to be about gear and not AP

- loot ilevel the same I'm willing to bet we see this adjusted mid way through Tomb. They couldn't do it before Tomb opened so as to not affect world 1st races

- key / time / depletion changes are for the worst [B]What are you smoking? New depletion mechanic is great. Lose 1 level instead of the key requiring a full run with no reward to recharge.

- less people care about it (less LFG pool) No, it only eliminated the wrong people from the pool of players. Mythic+ is not and was never intended to be a way for people to farm AP by grinding specific keys. You run it for your chest and/or specific gear upgrades you need that drop from certain dungeons. That's it. Otherwise you're supposed to stay the hell out of Mythic+. The one exception to that is the very small percentage of players who attempt the highest difficulties purely for the challenge/bragging rights.

[Osmeric]

What's the point of running them now, apart maybe from one +15 for the weekly chest.

The weekly legendary upgrade quest, at least until your important legendaries are upgraded. You should have lots of legendaries now, so this will keep you busy.

[Deleted]

I personally love the changes in this patch. I much prefer a longer and more difficult run instead of trying to rush easy shit, and that's pretty much where it boils down to. Above 15 you pretty soon find yourself getting 4 pieces of loot anyway (old "two chesting").

[Kokolums]

M+ is broken because people just min max the thing and want to clear it on easy mode. Any trouble and they whine and complain and stomp their feet. Its cancer. Should be removed.