What do they mean they want to see community involvement

[Kokolums]

I see a blue post on the mmo front page mentioning that for pvp they want community involvement and community run events to build up pvp. Uhhhhhhh, they annihilated the community years ago. The community is a shell of what it was. Shouldnt they be rebuilding some sense of community first?

Makes no sense.

[Caolela]

You know what? I'm sick of seeing the word "community" bantered about constantly by Blizz (and others for that matter) at the drop of a hat. It sounds all cute and cuddly though doesn't it?

Blizz thinks of the so-called "community" about long enough to send out the quarterly reports to the shareholders every 3 months. That's it. Blizz destroyed "community" when they implemented CRZ, LFR, made 20m Mythic and no 10m, killed oQueue, ignored PvP cheating for years, and wrecked PvP in Legion for the sake of trying to make it e-sport for the streamers to make money from. And that's just for starters.

They've also proven for years that they don't listen to the "community" on almost everything, like PTR, nerfs/buffs, or anything else you can name. Except when it happens to suit their model and business plan.

This "community involvement" bullshit is just desperation on their part now, since they've screwed the pooch on PvP and Hoelunkie's useless ass is out. They want "community"? At a bare minimum they'll have to start with a re-vamp of the entire template and RNG-rigged system they have.

Donkeys will fly before that happens because they're too fucking greedy to change it. So they resort to appeals for "community".

I don't feel a bit sorry for their lying asses. They brought this upon themselves.

[Eapoe]

You know what? I'm sick of seeing the word "community" bantered about constantly by Blizz (and others for that matter) at the drop of a hat. It sounds all cute and cuddly though doesn't it?

Blizz thinks of the so-called "community" about long enough to send out the quarterly reports to the shareholders every 3 months. That's it. Blizz destroyed "community" when they implemented CRZ, LFR, made 20m Mythic and no 10m, killed oQueue, ignored PvP cheating for years, and wrecked PvP in Legion for the sake of trying to make it e-sport for the streamers to make money from. And that's just for starters.

They've also proven for years that they don't listen to the "community" on almost everything, like PTR, nerfs/buffs, or anything else you can name. Except when it happens to suit their model and business plan.

This "community involvement" bullshit is just desperation on their part now, since they've screwed the pooch on PvP and Hoelunkie's useless ass is out. They want "community"? At a bare minimum they'll have to start with a re-vamp of the entire template and RNG-rigged system they have.

Donkeys will fly before that happens because they're too fucking greedy to change it. So they resort to appeals for "community".

So you blame Blizzard for killing community because players stopped talking to each other? It's such a tired, played out word the way people try to use it. Spamming trade chat for hours "need 1 more, prefer DK for Naxx 25" trying to fill a raid, or spamming "WTS blah blah blah," does not mean you had a community.
Blizzard gave options for people to play with more people with CRZ and the ability to form groups easily with LFG, and people quit talking. Blizzard did not destroy any so-called "community." The playerbase did that all on their own.
People blaming Blizzard or killing the community is almost equivalent to blaming a gun company for shooting someone. Sure, without the tools it wouldn't have happened, but the company didn't force a person to pull the trigger, just like Blizzard didn't force people to quit talking to each other.

[Caolela]

Yeup. Blizz out of the kindness of their hearts gave people "options" but for some unknown, inexplicable reason they all decided to suddenly stop talking.

You missed the whole part about no accountability on your home server, no need to form groups on that server, and because you'll never see Joeblow the pally again from server X because he doesn't care what he does. Gets his thing done or his loot and he's gone.

The game changed because Blizzard changed it. Not because people suddenly overnight became selfish pricks. Blizz's system encourages that because it increases profits.

[Deleted]

"Community involvement and Blizzard" sounds like an April fools joke.

Aside from Heroes of the Storm (one of the rare games where Blizzard isn't dominating the market,coincidence?), they don't listen to their customer's feedback. The only thing they listen is what can make the game more and more RNG and diabloesque. Less work, more of the same.

[ComputerNerd]

I see a blue post on the mmo front page mentioning that for pvp they want community involvement and community run events to build up pvp. Uhhhhhhh, they annihilated the community years ago. The community is a shell of what it was. Shouldnt they be rebuilding some sense of community first?

Makes no sense.

They didn't destroy community.
The community did.

Community is not made by forced proximity or interaction.
It is the choice to do something positive, without agenda, without incentive.
Look at how players demand that everything has to either have a reward, has to have the reward removed from someone else to elevate theirs, etc.

It isn't about fun, it is about reward and how efficient earning said reward is.
That is entirely a player problem.

"Community involvement and Blizzard" sounds like an April fools joke.

Aside from Heroes of the Storm (one of the rare games where Blizzard isn't dominating the market,coincidence?), they don't listen to their customer's feedback. The only thing they listen is what can make the game more and more RNG and diabloesque. Less work, more of the same.

Or you ignore the cases where the players do get what they apparently want.
You not getting your specific cases does not mean that nobody does.

There is a lot of difference between none and some.
And that is what it actually is.
SOME feedback resulting in changes.

I can't and won't deny blizzard are stubborn in some areas.
But to claim they don't listen at all is wrong and an utter lie.

[Niwes]

You know what? I'm sick of seeing the word "community" bantered about constantly by Blizz (and others for that matter) at the drop of a hat. It sounds all cute and cuddly though doesn't it?

Blizz thinks of the so-called "community" about long enough to send out the quarterly reports to the shareholders every 3 months. That's it. Blizz destroyed "community" when they implemented CRZ, LFR, made 20m Mythic and no 10m, killed oQueue, ignored PvP cheating for years, and wrecked PvP in Legion for the sake of trying to make it e-sport for the streamers to make money from. And that's just for starters.

They've also proven for years that they don't listen to the "community" on almost everything, like PTR, nerfs/buffs, or anything else you can name. Except when it happens to suit their model and business plan.

This "community involvement" bullshit is just desperation on their part now, since they've screwed the pooch on PvP and Hoelunkie's useless ass is out. They want "community"? At a bare minimum they'll have to start with a re-vamp of the entire template and RNG-rigged system they have.

Donkeys will fly before that happens because they're too fucking greedy to change it. So they resort to appeals for "community".

I don't feel a bit sorry for their lying asses. They brought this upon themselves.

this exactly is the simple truth.

if you really WANT a community, and not millions of idiots paying short term and leave, to push your quarter numbers, THEN you dont do what blizz did the last years. THEN you give em tools to form community, and take em tools to destroy community. A LOT what blizzard implemented in the game (and what supported the "meta game") leads naturally to toxic behaviour, ninja looting, egoistic playstyle, and a totally no-sense of community.

or in short: they piss on "community" as long as they make the most money with the least possible amount of effort aka cost effective development. since years its not about long term investment and loyal customers in big companies like blizz. its all about the quarter numbers and supporting share holders short term from quarter to quarter.

[Metallourlante]

Basically they just want us to do their job. Now that Holinka is gone no one is gonna step up to bring pvp back as a fun thing to do I'm afraid.
(not that holinka ever did that but it was just the scapegoat for everything)

[mmowin]

I see a blue post on the mmo front page mentioning that for pvp they want community involvement and community run events to build up pvp. Uhhhhhhh, they annihilated the community years ago. The community is a shell of what it was. Shouldnt they be rebuilding some sense of community first?

Makes no sense.

They want community involvement problem is there is no pvp community. Hasn't been one since maybe wotlk / Cataclysm?

[ComputerNerd]

this exactly is the simple truth.

if you really WANT a community, and not millions of idiots paying short term and leave, to push your quarter numbers, THEN you dont do what blizz did the last years. THEN you give em tools to form community, and take em tools to destroy community. A LOT what blizzard implemented in the game (and what supported the "meta game") leads naturally to toxic behaviour, ninja looting, egoistic playstyle, and a totally no-sense of community.

or in short: they piss on "community" as long as they make the most money with the least possible amount of effort aka cost effective development. since years its not about long term investment and loyal customers in big companies like blizz. its all about the quarter numbers and supporting share holders short term from quarter to quarter.

Tools to interact with players past otherwise unsurpassable barriers.
Those are tools to promote community, if someone wants to do something other than think about themselves.

The players ruin the community, and blame everyone else for it.
The community was better when we didn't have those tools you say are now necessary.
So how can you say now that the lack of those tools is responsible.

It is about players who can't admit responsibility for THEIR OWN actions.
If you opt to avoid communication, if you raise item level requirements, then that is nobody but yourself deciding that.
Blizzard aren't forcing it, they aren't making it a requirement.
It is YOU and YOU only.

[Caolela]

They didn't destroy community.
The community did.

Community is not made by forced proximity or interaction.
It is the choice to do something positive, without agenda, without incentive.
Look at how players demand that everything has to either have a reward, has to have the reward removed from someone else to elevate theirs, etc.

People like you, Eapoe above, and FelPlague need a fucking reality check. The staggering thing is, these issues have been pointed out to you on a daily basis here, with irrefutable facts, yet you still persist with the Blizz Wankfest Alternate Universe™. It's like trying to talk politics with the rubes in OT or Gen. forums.

There is a cumulative effect that gradually destroys grouping and a sense of player cooperation and community. It's a death by 1000 cuts that has been detailed above. Most players are going to take the most efficient or easiest way to get what they want in the game, and it is entirely Blizzard's doing since Blizzard sets the rules & parameters, not the players.

WoW is a Massive Multi-Player Online RPG, not supposed to be morphed into a Single-Player RPG, aRPG, FPS, or MOBA. But that's what Blizzard has done, not the players.

It ain't rocket surgery to figure out. If someone can't add 1 and 1 together, then they're beyond my help.

[ComputerNerd]

People like you, Eapoe above, and FelPlague need a fucking reality check. The staggering thing is, these issues have been pointed out to you on a daily basis here, with irrefutable facts, yet you still persist with the Blizz Wankfest Alternate Universe™. It's like trying to talk politics with the rubes in OT or Gen. forums.

There is a cumulative effect that gradually destroys grouping and a sense of player cooperation and community. It's a death by 1000 cuts that has been detailed above. Most players are going to take the most efficient or easiest way to get what they want in the game, and it is entirely Blizzard's doing since Blizzard sets the rules & parameters, not the players.

WoW is a Massive Multi-Player Online RPG, not supposed to be morphed into a Single-Player RPG, aRPG, FPS, or MOBA. But that's what Blizzard has done, not the players.

It ain't rocket surgery to figure out. If someone can't add 1 and 1 together, then they're beyond my help.

People like us ?
If you can't form an argument, launch an insult.
Be it fanboy, casual, etc.

There is nothing irrefutable about your "facts".
There is only one here, that players made these decisions themselves.
Nobody forced them.

Forced proximity alone has never made community.
Community is doing something without agenda, without incentive.
If you want to force interaction, then you end up with something a long way from community.
Look at the apparent community in Vanilla, when players were the most spread they have ever been, the most isolated.
Yet there was the most willingness than ever to inconvenience yourself to help others.
There are tools now that if you are willing, can allow you to help players easier than ever before.

Blizzard aren't setting some rules on those tools that players are breaking by opting to be detrimental to the community.
No, that is a player choice since they can just as easily opt to do the opposite.
But they aren't.
So don't claim that some "rules and parameters" from blizzard are dictating that.
It is you only who decides that.

[Caolela]

People like us ?
If you can't form an argument, launch an insult.
Be it fanboy, casual, etc.

There is nothing irrefutable about your "facts".
There is only one here, that players made these decisions themselves.
Nobody forced them.

Forced proximity alone has never made community.
Community is doing something without agenda, without incentive.
If you want to force interaction, then you end up with something a long way from community.
Look at the apparent community in Vanilla, when players were the most spread they have ever been, the most isolated.
Yet there was the most willingness than ever to inconvenience yourself to help others.
There are tools now that if you are willing, can allow you to help players easier than ever before.

Blizzard aren't setting some rules on those tools that players are breaking by opting to be detrimental to the community.
No, that is a player choice since they can just as easily opt to do the opposite.
But they aren't.
So don't claim that some "rules and parameters" from blizzard are dictating that.
It is you only who decides that.

That's right, people like you who constantly obfuscate and find excuses for a corporation that doesn't give a single rat's testicle about you or anyone else but their bottom line and how much they can separate you from your money. Unless of course you're being compensated in some way by Blizz to get on MMO-C and spew their corp. talking points.

My and other's arguments have been made and are completely factual. Unless you're going to deny that it is Blizz that sets the meta. Like hey, I couldn't find a group on Malorne or Aerie Peak, so I'll just put in the CRZ code so I meet a bunch from realms X, Y, and Z. Realm Restarts in 5:00 guys!! *ticking....

See how that works? You can't be that dense, so why else would you peddle such bullshit?

Saying "no one forced them" is a crock of shit too. If you're going to play the game, then you're going to do the things that the game allows. "Without agenda, without incentive"?? That's the whole point of playing any game - to win or to progress along. Otherwise, you might as well camp Brill or Kharanos and smash lowbies on your main, or farm useless mats that never get used or won't sell. That's fun for exactly 12 seconds.

Denial. It's not just a river in Egypt.

[Schattenlied]

I see a blue post on the mmo front page mentioning that for pvp they want community involvement and community run events to build up pvp. Uhhhhhhh, they annihilated the community years ago. The community is a shell of what it was. Shouldnt they be rebuilding some sense of community first?

Makes no sense.

We gave them our community involvement in alpha and beta when we told them how fucked up the pvp balance was(and still is), they ignored us, so many in the PvP community left.

We tried to give them our community involvement, they didn't want it.

[Stormspellz]

We gave them our community involvement in alpha and beta when we told them how fucked up the pvp balance was(and still is), they ignored us, so many in the PvP community left.

We tried to give them our community involvement, they didn't want it.

This! every expansion beta, its constant stream of feed back and their only real response is complaining about cdew's "#stoptheprune" hashtag on how its not constructive, while ignoring fully indepth break downs on their forums and others.

[Drusin]

Got a little quote for you guys, whenever I'm in an argument that I know isn't going to go anywhere I usually just quit. Especially with wow/online people, they might just be bored and are taking a side just to have something to do. Either way, I've never once seen a case of someone having their opinion changed by having an online discussion, or at least they didn't admit it. They have to be right, there's no other option.

"You seem as if you like to talk, I like to let people talk who like to talk"

[Sliske]

Its worthless nonsense.

First of all, the players themselves should've be expected to go to third party sites just to gather players so they can run events. Prior to MoP, we had things called 'Battlegroups' and it was easy as fuck to gather players from your own battlegroup to do RBGs or Arenas or even casual pvp with.

Second, if they mean world pvp, casual pvp and dueling, then they've fucked that too. Again because of the removal of battlegroups but also because of the introduction of CRZ. Who else remembers right up to 4.3 standing outside Orgrimmar or Stormwind and dueling people? Well, go there now in 5.0. You'll see 3 people from spanish realms that you couldn't pronounce if your life depended on it.

So yeah, fuck off with the stupid 'speaking while saying nothing' bullshit. GCD is carrying WoW PvP on its back and has been for 2-3 years now. Without them, Arena participation would be even more dead than it already is.

Bring back battlegroups and remove CRZ and PvP will instantly see a rise in popularity.

[Eapoe]

Yeup. Blizz out of the kindness of their hearts gave people "options" but for some unknown, inexplicable reason they all decided to suddenly stop talking.

You missed the whole part about no accountability on your home server, no need to form groups on that server, and because you'll never see Joeblow the pally again from server X because he doesn't care what he does. Gets his thing done or his loot and he's gone.

The game changed because Blizzard changed it. Not because people suddenly overnight became selfish pricks. Blizz's system encourages that because it increases profits.

Yet again, that's not Blizzard's fault because you quit talking to people. As stated, Blizz developed something to help small pop servers as well as a way to make it so you don't spam trade chat for hours to try and form a group; but that doesn't mean it's Blizz's fault that people used it as a way to quit talking to each other. Blizzard did change the game with implementing a system to help the player, the people playing changed the "community" with the way they used the system. That's not Blizzqrds fault.
Believe me, I'm all for accountability, but this arguement holds no water for your side of the debate.

- - - Updated - - -

People like you, Eapoe above, and FelPlague need a fucking reality check. The staggering thing is, these issues have been pointed out to you on a daily basis here, with irrefutable facts, yet you still persist with the Blizz Wankfest Alternate Universe™. It's like trying to talk politics with the rubes in OT or Gen. forums.

There is a cumulative effect that gradually destroys grouping and a sense of player cooperation and community. It's a death by 1000 cuts that has been detailed above. Most players are going to take the most efficient or easiest way to get what they want in the game, and it is entirely Blizzard's doing since Blizzard sets the rules & parameters, not the players.

WoW is a Massive Multi-Player Online RPG, not supposed to be morphed into a Single-Player RPG, aRPG, FPS, or MOBA. But that's what Blizzard has done, not the players.

It ain't rocket surgery to figure out. If someone can't add 1 and 1 together, then they're beyond my help.

So when was the last time you sat in trade and just tried to talk to people? When did you last try to form your group from specifically your server? Do you speak to people when you join them in dungeons/LFR? Do you actively try to talk to anyone outside of your guild? If you can answer "yes," then congratulations as you are 1 of a few people that tries to be sociable and make new connections and community. If you say no to these, then congratulations because you are every bit as much of the problem.
The sad thing is that people arguing what you're trying to point out is this: CRZ and LFR/LFG should have ENHANCED a sense of community, as it brings more and more people together and presents more opportunity to talk to and meet new people; however, it did the opposite because people CHOOSE to not talk to each other. We, as players, decide what we do with the tools given to us, and we choose to ignore the people we want to. For a lot of people, that's everyone outside of their guild. As you stated, we aren't going to see these people again, so why bother talking to them, but at the same time, why not talk to them? It's an opportunity to meet new people and form new connections, yet players choose to not do that. Instead, they blame Blizzard for making people antisocial.
It's just sad that people can't admit this because they want to blame anyone other than themselves because they choose not to be sociable.

[ComputerNerd]

That's right, people like you who constantly obfuscate and find excuses for a corporation that doesn't give a single rat's testicle about you or anyone else but their bottom line and how much they can separate you from your money. Unless of course you're being compensated in some way by Blizz to get on MMO-C and spew their corp. talking points.

My and other's arguments have been made and are completely factual. Unless you're going to deny that it is Blizz that sets the meta. Like hey, I couldn't find a group on Malorne or Aerie Peak, so I'll just put in the CRZ code so I meet a bunch from realms X, Y, and Z. Realm Restarts in 5:00 guys!! *ticking....

See how that works? You can't be that dense, so why else would you peddle such bullshit?

Saying "no one forced them" is a crock of shit too. If you're going to play the game, then you're going to do the things that the game allows. "Without agenda, without incentive"?? That's the whole point of playing any game - to win or to progress along. Otherwise, you might as well camp Brill or Kharanos and smash lowbies on your main, or farm useless mats that never get used or won't sell. That's fun for exactly 12 seconds.

Denial. It's not just a river in Egypt.

People like you who find excuses to bash blizzard instead of blaming the real people responsible.
And just as I predicted, a barely veiled fanboy accusation which you pull out based on based on a single viewpoint, without bothering to look beyond that.
Go look at the entirety of my posts before calling me a fanboy, and you will come back looking like a fool.
Actually you did that already, my post content isn't required to achieve that.

There is no fact in your argument.
The players make their own decisions, and some make a different decision from you.
Therefore it is them who decide, not the game.
It isn't all one way or the other which disproves your argument that the tools are responsible.

Nobody forced them.
There is no forcing when two options are presented and you CAN take either one.
Opting for the more efficient, the quicker or more effective by some other metric does not mean forced.
Because if it were "forced", how can some people who aren't you be doing differently.
Forcing would require them all to do the same, which they do not.

You are in denial, I am not.

Forced means inability to make a different decision.
People HAVE and DO.
Therefore NOT forced.

You made your own decisions, different from mine.
And you can't admit the motivations behind them, so have to blame someone else for that.
Arguing that perhaps the tools offer too much of an incentive is one thing, saying it was forced just one way, that is an outright lie.

[Niwes]

Tools to interact with players past otherwise unsurpassable barriers.
Those are tools to promote community, if someone wants to do something other than think about themselves.

The players ruin the community, and blame everyone else for it.
The community was better when we didn't have those tools you say are now necessary.
So how can you say now that the lack of those tools is responsible.

It is about players who can't admit responsibility for THEIR OWN actions.
If you opt to avoid communication, if you raise item level requirements, then that is nobody but yourself deciding that.
Blizzard aren't forcing it, they aren't making it a requirement.
It is YOU and YOU only.

you live in a naive la la fantasy land. players always will take the easiest route. humans will. players will always search for max benefit. players will always accept community standards and adapt (item level etc). and most players are sheeps and do what the others do.

bc this is human nature blizz IS responsible for giving and supporting them antisocial behaviour and tools that on one side make things faster/easier/etc. while on the other side work against community and social behaviour.

you sound like some idiotic hippie believing in "when everybody..." but that will never happen because humans are egoistic and lazy. so, when you set up a frame for that ppl (game world in wow or state in reality) you of course are a part of the responsibility for the outcome.

dont getting that and blaming players for being humans is just pathetic and brutal 12 year old naive.