Wolfgang Schäuble to Muslim migrants: If you don’t like Europe, leave

[Zoibert the Bear]

The Inquisition is not a country and extended over far more than just Spain. I think you need to spend a little less time on this forum and go pick up a history book instead.

1. The hint was a joke related to a meme: Nobody expects the Spanish inquisition.

2. I was trying to make this relatable, as Spain did not become a country until long after.

3. The Spanish Inquisition was established by King Ferdinand II and Isabella I in 1478, in SPAIN, for the very purpose of uncovering Jews and Muslims who had not converted voluntarily prior.

4. My education regarding this subject is not only likely, but most definitely superior to yours.

You should definitely spend less time on this forum and join an anger management class so you can integrate into society and stop being a prick. You're going around calling ignorance while making yourself look like an uneducated and whinny individual.

I know that the Inquisition is not a country. I also know that the Inquisition and the Spanish Inquisition are not the same entity. If you are unable to understand a simple joke, I really don't know what to make of it.


[Infracted]

[Slant]

I hope the people in this thread are forced by war, famine, or poverty to move to a European country. I want to see how tightly they cling to "MURICA!" when told that they must "integrate" by giving up English, never congregating in areas with other Americans, never wearing American clothes, or expressing any pride in their home ntion whatsoever.

I'm sure the loud mouthed strongmen (oh who are we kidding, let's call them what they are: the angry neckbeards with 10k posts) in here would be the first ones waving their American Flags down the streets and resisting the very kind of forced integration (read as: forced assimilation, cultural suppression, curtailing of freedom of expression, and brainwashing) that they demand to impose on Muslims.

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Of course some adaptation must occur. I for one get very annoyed when I encounter Spanish speaking immigrants who refuse to learn English in the US (as a son of a Costa Rican immigrant, I was taught English and Spanish fluently and my mother learned English within months of arriving here). And certainly an immigrant has no right to impose their culture on natives of a given nation (though I would argue that NO ONE has a right to impose their culture on others, regardless of the artificial borders we territorial monkeys love to draw everywhere).

The issue is that the demands on display here go WAY beyond this. They are, in effect, demanding that Muslims (many of whom are refugees and do NOT want to live in their current host countries, but who have little other choice due to economic and warfare conditions) give up their right to organize and congregate, to live near one another, to like certain foods or music, to dress a certain way, even to practice their personal faith, all in the name of making them be "more like the crowd". That's not integration. That's forced assimilation, and it is wrong on both a moral and a practical level.

Nobody can deny people in Germany their right to congregate. Where the hell did you get that from? It's in the constitution. And the vast majority of Muslims in Germany are not refugees. They're already having their own subculture and that's fine. Nobody here saw that as a problem for 50 years right into the 2000s. You know what the problem is? It's the homegrown terrorists that are trained, educated and prepared in "Mosques". I put that in quote, because they aren't "Mosques", they are rented floors in some fucked up office building and they sell themselves as "Muslim clubs" rather than religious sites.

About that right to congregate, last Saturday there was a huge rally called up by Muslims, organised by Muslims, for Muslims to attend to protest against violence. They estimated 20k to attend. It was only 10k. A respectable number, until you realise that the biggest Muslim organisation refused to attend. That's the same one that will easily get 20k+ on their own to attend a rally of a second or third tier Turkish politician. Yes, please... do your domestic election campaigning here in Germany but please, don't ever protest your own terrori... peopl.. erm, misguide... I have no idea what to say here. Except... guess they have a reason to not attend. I guess they think if they attend, they somehow think that makes them feel as if they have to defend themselves against the accusation of supporting terrorism.

Well, good job... now you really have me curious why you didn't protest violence. Now I'm accusing you of supporting terrorism. That worked out really well, because everyone else here is also wondering why the fuck you wouldn't protest violence? Unless you... supported violence?

[Torched]

Don't try and change the country you moved too into the shithole you left.

[Deleted]

Don't try and change the country you moved too into the shithole you left.

Says the guy from a country whose entire cultural output is Bjork and bank fraud.

[Lylandra]

Well, good job... now you really have me curious why you didn't protest violence. Now I'm accusing you of supporting terrorism. That worked out really well, because everyone else here is also wondering why the fuck you wouldn't protest violence? Unless you... supported violence?

Officially, Ditib did't attend because they didn't want to "force" people to protest during Ramadan in summer.

Well, I get that very strictly fasting muslims can get into serious health problems when they stand in the sun at ~30°C for hours without water. But... not all muslims do that kind of "100% strict fasting" during summer months Ramadan in the northern hemispheres because... our sun rises at 5am and sets at 22pm or so. Many young muslims I know do fast during a 12 hour period between early breakfast and dinner and some do take breaks for training, learning etc.

In my opinion, Ditib's decision was very short-sighted and made from a very strict, traditionalist point of view.

[Aggrophobic]

How does Daneguy keep getting away with breaking the rules like this? The thread is clearly against the rules of the forum..

He does not.
I'm sure he's getting close to some sort of record when it comes to number of bans.

Why MMO-C is not just removing him permanently, I have no idea.

[Strangebrew]

Right. Because Islam is literally the worst thing ever.

Sounds about right, it's an regressive shit ideology, an blight on humanity that doesn't belong in a world that welcomes human rights.

I mean it's not like white Christians murder thousands of people in the US alone every year,

Uh huh, i'm sure i would have heard about it if that actually happened.
Not that i give a shit about your whataboutism in the first place.

nor did anyone other than Muslims ever start a religious war or commit mass murder over their theological, social, or political beliefs.

Oh wait....

Good thing we stopped doing that a long time ago then, and has no relevancy to current year.

[Deleted]

Good thing we stopped doing that a long time ago then, and has no relevancy to current year.

The Iraq war was started by a crazy evangelical Christian. According to the memoirs of Jacques Chirac, French president at the time, George W Bush wanted to start "The battle of Gog and Amog" (old testament references).

That's pretty much how we got to where we are now.

[Sharein]

More precisely, the right expects immigrants coming in with almost nothing to integrate with as little aid from the country they're immigrating to as possible, stay as far removed from the local population as possible, and are then surprised when they don't integrate.

You want people to integrate? Put in plans to make people integrate. Don't bitch and moan that a system you aren't supporting isn't working.

Those plans have been there for... years.

[Zoibert the Bear]

There's actually a country in Europe that successfully managed to integrate a large number of Muslim residents. Two basic rules applied:

- "Voluntary" Christianization (as in, convert or be sold into slavery)
- Expulsion (be it geographic or from life)

Hint: Nobody expects them.

If you're going to be rude, at least be clever. You referenced a country, and then said no one expects THEM. Hence, your joke was framed improperly, as the first line refers to Spain, while the latter line in this context appears to refer to the first line, and, as mentioned, the Inquisition is not a country. Your attempted meme drop (and yes, we all saw History of the World, no one's impressed) was poorly constructed, and the fact you take such offense to anyone pointing that out implies that it may indeed be you who requires psychological assitance.

Your following points are also poorly thought out. Unless "a few decades" means "long after" to you. Which from a historical perspective is somewhat laughable. (1478-1512 is a pretty short time period). The Spanish Inqusition itself extended to not only Spain, but the Spanish territories as well, eventually leading to the broader Christian Inquistion which extended to several European countries and their holdings.

As for your education on the matter...watching a few History Channel specials does not an expert make! Sarcasm aside, you have no idea what my level of historical education is, nor I yours, and being far too old to get into a pissing contest with a forum dwelling baiter I will instead shrug my shoulders and allow you whatever assumptions you might prefer.

Let me explain this to you in a ELI5 format, as you do not seem to be able to grasp anything that implies further complexity. Point to be taken is that is was a bad and premeditated joke that you took too seriously, but that's on your side to consider.

I said a certain country did something. I then referenced the Spanish Inquisition by saying nobody expects them.

That means that nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition, assuming that the vast majority of human beings would understand that this phrase actually meant nobody expects the Spaniards.

Yes, it was a bad joke meant to entertain those that do not suffer from some sort of social disorder. It does not need to be funny for anyone, but it's pretty easy to understand.

As for your few "decades" as you so viciously like to quote, I was referring to Spain as the modern sovereign nation of Spain, which was only referenced to as an entity in the 19th century, not your 1512 notion of Spain as the union of the Kingdoms of Aragon and Castile.

Source: I lived and received history education in Spain for 23 years.

Take that with a grain of salt, I know you will not agree on anything I said, but it's worth a shot.

[namecraft]

this quote changes everything. now all extremists will go back to the middle east.

[Rotted]

But they won't leave. They will remain and continue to dehumanize the natives by their example.

Some will, some will come and have their eyes truly opened for the first time to see what a free world looks like and see they don't have to this or do that, be potentially killed for being gay or not being religious etc.

I'm all for having a set number of immigrants which can enter each EU country, I'm all for booting them out no questions asked if they break laws, but this branding all under one flag needs to stop

[Strangebrew]

Not really, everyone has been saying the same thing for years - integration is the biggest issue there is and there is faults on both sides.

They literally get everything they need to have a comfortable life, and all kind of support they want. More than some even native citizens do.
Yet unlike every single other group of immigrants, they still don't integrate.
So no, fuck off with this bullshit.

[Deleted]

immigration 101.
Integrate into the society of the country you move to if you want to live there.

Why is this even newsworthy?

because for a very long time, the left has pretended the 'assimilation' (what it says in the Refugee charter) actually means Integration, by which they mean the majority integrate the minority, and not the minority into the majority.

[Airlick]

There's actually a country in Europe that successfully managed to integrate a large number of Muslim residents. Two basic rules applied:

- "Voluntary" Christianization (as in, convert or be sold into slavery)
- Expulsion (be it geographic or from life)

Hint: Nobody expects them.

This is what Chinese did as well, though they didn't force muslims to abandon their religion. They were forced to intermarry with ethnical Chinese and abandon their names, and in turn, their language, on the threat of deportation or death.

That said, Poland didn't need to use force on Lipka Tatars, and they successfully integrated (retained religion and tradition, but became extremely loyal to the country) into the society. And then one has to remember that Poland was in a constant state of warfare (active or crawling, but there were hostilities all the time) against Ottomans when this was happening. The only time Tatars turned on Poland was when they were deprived of the priviliges they worked for for 200 years prior - and they returned once the priviliges were restored.

Which is why I said that religion is not necessarily the most important factor here. It's simply the extreme level of indoctrination and the general lack of half-decent education, in addition to peer pressure, that makes Arabs not integrate. Coming to this conclusion, I could argue that there actually IS another way of making them integrate - spreading them out among the population, preventing them from forming local circles that inevitably spawn extremists, keeping them under strict supervision for at least a generation and educating them according to western standards. This still effectively means destroying their identity, but they probably could be allowed to keep their religion. This would still require extreme level of supervision, and I'm not sure if Europe could pull it off. People won't stand for another Inquisition.

[Zoibert the Bear]

Coming to this conclusion, I could argue that there actually IS another way of making them integrate - spreading them out among the population, preventing them from forming local circles that inevitably spawn extremists, keeping them under strict supervision for at least a generation and educating them according to western standards. This still effectively means destroying their identity, but they probably could be allowed to keep their religion. This would still require extreme level of supervision, and I'm not sure if Europe could pull it off. People won't stand for another Inquisition.

This is very true and also used to increase integration of gypsies all around the globe. Closed gypsy communities tend to create secluded environments that give way to crime and less prospects of integration.

Certain countries in Europe offer gypsy families cheaper housing but spread them around as much as possible. This has definitely proved to be successful.

[Deleted]

As for your few "decades" as you so viciously like to quote, I was referring to Spain as the modern sovereign nation of Spain, which was only referenced to as an entity in the 19th century, not your 1512 notion of Spain as the union of the Kingdoms of Aragon and Castile.

Source: I lived and received history education in Spain for 23 years.

The idea that Spain founded an Empire but couldn't bother to become a country is hilarious.

[Zoibert the Bear]

I'm not going to argue with you on any of your toxic little ad hominems. I'm just going to point out that a joke which is not funny to anyone, and whose construction undermines its punch line, is by almost any contemporary definition not a joke.

Oh, and living in a country does not make you an expert on it. I've lived in the US for 30 years and I'm far from an expert on US history, yet I have a formal education that included susbstantial information on European history and further pursued it as a personal hobby thereafter, despite never having set foot in Europe for more than a week. ;-)

Ah, devolved into the fallacy calling game once again. With some ironic frosting to top it off. Good day to you sir.

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The idea that Spain founded an Empire but couldn't bother to become a country is hilarious.

It certainly is.

[Machismo]

Why do people feel the need to force others to conform to the culture that they want? If my neighbors don't want to live like me, I honestly do not give a shit. So long as they are not harming others, it's none of my fucking business.

[Ishayu]

This sentiment is fucking garbage. People are discontented and ask for change in their societies all the time. You can't tell everyone to leave because they want to take steps that they think would improve their lives where they're living.

I'm terribly sorry that I don't like random people overrunning my country and changing how I live to be how it was where they lived. If they liked where they lived better, how about they stay there?!