Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Rhlor]

All i'm saying, is that it ain't looking better in terms of giving the other alliance races something to do, while as a horde we are going to see aztec trolls and that's pretty cool.



JOIN THE ALLIANCE, JOIN THE HEGEMONY



I was literally taking a jab at how diluted night elves have been through wow, their racial characterization, then he responded bringing up Sylvanas as the lich queen out of nowhere. So, ???

what I see is that many players of the alliance are very enthusiastic about the idea of "rebuilding" the seven human kingdoms, I read many saying "nobody cares darmassus"

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

This is what redeems the void elves for me, facial hair! Screw the crappy lore, they are shredded and scruffy

Honestly at the end of the day, all I want is a cool looking character, and hell yeah he is.

[Rhlor]

Okay I am much more happy with the void elf customization! there's variety!! They actually feel like they have as many options as the rest of the races, so I'm on board.

Hopefully Nightborne and Lighforged will also get expanded. Both races are just very limited in terms of coloring, although the nightborne at least have 3 very distinct skin tones and I really love the first 1.

in the end all the people who complain will love the void elves.

I think that with those colors are fine, more colors ruin the racial aesthetics

[Steampunkette]

what I see is that many players of the alliance are very enthusiastic about the idea of "rebuilding" the seven human kingdoms, I read many saying "nobody cares darmassus"

It's definitely a thing.

Just as the Horde's majority player race is the Blood Elf, the Alliance's majority player race is the Human. This has to do with personal-insertion and identification. The further from the self a given character is, the harder it is for someone to empathize with that character. This isn't a biological issue, but a cultural one in which we've been trained to spot differences based on social norms to recognize potential threats. It's also why the remaining races can be ordered in, essentially, "How close to human or idealized human" the races are, adjusted of course for when they were added.

Worgen, for example, have a number of players roughly equivalent to 1/3rd the Human players, while Goblins are a fifth of Belf players.

Pandaren, as fat bear-people, represent neither a physical ideal or a marked closeness to human appearance, and have 2% of the playerbase, in each faction.

Humans are, overwhelmingly, the Alliance. Because the player primarily picks that which is closest to themself.

[Deleted]

Would the lightforged draenei act the same?

I hope so! They saw heroes of the Horde fight beside them against the Legion; the Lightforged shouldn't want to strike down fellow champions of the Light

[Rhlor]

It's definitely a thing.

Just as the Horde's majority player race is the Blood Elf, the Alliance's majority player race is the Human. This has to do with personal-insertion and identification. The further from the self a given character is, the harder it is for someone to empathize with that character. This isn't a biological issue, but a cultural one in which we've been trained to spot differences based on social norms to recognize potential threats. It's also why the remaining races can be ordered in, essentially, "How close to human or idealized human" the races are, adjusted of course for when they were added.

Worgen, for example, have a number of players roughly equivalent to 1/3rd the Human players, while Goblins are a fifth of Belf players.

Pandaren, as fat bear-people, represent neither a physical ideal or a marked closeness to human appearance, and have 2% of the playerbase, in each faction.

Humans are, overwhelmingly, the Alliance. Because the player primarily picks that which is closest to themself.

and the player base makes the story go to a specific site!I remember that some people of other races in the alliance complain that the High King is but the humans quickly defend that he is the high king.

Many times I read topical players of the alliance (human) asking to do an expa on lordaeron and expel the forsaken and rebuild the human kingdoms. That idea of who cares darnassus was very strong. Darnassus is a very low price. I even read people who say it was inebitable for night elves to be expelled from their lands because they are very "close" to the horde, as if the horde should not exist in the eastern kingdoms and the alliance in kalindor would not matter.

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I hope so! They saw heroes of the Horde fight beside them against the Legion; the Lightforged shouldn't want to strike down fellow champions of the Light

my paladin would agree with that

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Yeah no, at this rate, Night Elves should look at Tyrande and think "Why you so aggressive?" I mean seriously this big cool "Savage Night Elves" is overplayed.

Because well going to Zandalar is kinda a no brainer when it comes to Allied races. Weather they get developed is another matter and that's true for any race. I still say Night Elves acting *savage* as their whole identity(Cause it keeps getting repeated) is well ignoring everything else they are.

I mean you are being the reductionist here. Not *just* savage, think about it as a culture that new the apex of civilization but turn away from it, with good reason. Sentinels were the biggest organization for 10000 years, Tyrande herself a warrior priestess. It's a martial society, one that resorts to action and violence because they know what it's at stake. Night Elves were never primitive, they are a race that advanced so much that ended on the other end of the spectrum. There's just so much complexity and just different morals and ethics Nelves should have, but we never see represented. They were the original "edgy" elves of warcraft III. Now BfA has to bring another edgier elf.

I feel like that the night elves' biggest issue is that they're forced into neutrality and have been nerfed to the ground due to gameplay reasons. I believe that all that you've mentioned happenened not because of them having to fit in with the human narrative, but because they would otherwise be overpowered in terms of the gameplay and lore.

They were introduced as the race that has the protection and aid of Cenarius himself, whereas Cenarius was brought in as a neutral character in WoW. Malfurion is an extremely powerful druid and whenever he had a chance to rise and shine as a night elven hero, he was nerfed to the ground into neutrality in WoW. Shandris Feathermoon literally only moved across a small body of water in Feralas and replaced her old fort with a new one.

They're forcibly written as badly as they are because otherwise they'd probably be the most potent and powerful race in WoW. This is being done to make the other races look relevant because in comparison to the reach and grasp of the night elven civilization, all other playable races seem meaningless.

They've also never been given a big role within the Alliance because of the same reasons. If it was written the way we knew them from Warcraft 3, then Cenarius would come to Suramar, raise the entire wildlife and nature of the Broken Isles and send it crushing down against everything in his path.

Indeed I think that plays a role, but they could have found other ways to make the night elves have a need for allies -thus why they needed to join the alliance- By the end of War 3, the night elves lost cenarius and their immortality, they were definitelly not as OP as they were, so it stands to reason they would need an alliance, an alliance of convinience that would have been much better served with more conflict between human and night elven ethos.

After the third War the night elves did lost most of their power so I don't think at all they were invincible. To your point about Malfurion stands, and tbh, if there had to be a nelf hippie it would be him, so neutrality for him.

It could mean that the Horde is having it worse by having to fit into the narrative of an undead high elf. It could easily be said from a Horde player's POV. I know many pro-Horde players who feel the same way and such an opinion doesn't make them anti-Horde or pro-Alliance.

But that isn't what I was talking about, is it?

[Gurmech]

IDK, I think a conversation with their brethren in the exodar would leave them with a pretty bad impression of the orcs, to say the least.

[Maxilian]

I wonder, with the addition to the Lightforged to the Alliance, and it seems that not only to the Alliance, but the culture of the Draneai, will we see the Lightforged expand to other races? With Turalyon we know that Humans can also become Lightforged, so would it be possible to have Turalyon, slowly but surely, push the idea of becoming Lightforged to members of the Church of the Light? (mostly humans)

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Looked like a Horde/Alliance thing, because lorewise, Horde members are made to defer to their one leader (Sylvanas now) far more.

But I'm also not happy with how Night Elves, Gnomes, Trolls and some other races have been treated.

While it's not pertinent to the point I was making about night elves, I will say that while horde members are expected to differ to Sylvanas more, they are allowed more independence, they exist more as entities on their own; they all have their own thing going on, and that might not allign with what the warchief wants.

Contrast to the alliance, that are made to be "Yes men" of the humans at large, with all their goals being the same, getting lost within the hegemony of alliance groupthink. It just makes everyone not human loose their identity in a way.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I mean you are being the reductionist here. Not *just* savage, think about it as a culture that new the apex of civilization but turn away from it, with good reason. Sentinels were the biggest organization for 10000 years, Tyrande herself a warrior priestess. It's a martial society, one that resorts to action and violence because they know what it's at stake. Night Elves were never primitive, they are a race that advanced so much that ended on the other end of the spectrum. There's just so much complexity and just different morals and ethics Nelves should have, but we never see represented. They were the original "edgy" elves of warcraft III. Now BfA has to bring another edgier elf.

You decided to bring up savage so I mentioned it. I don't want Night Elves to act dumb, fine don't tolerate bullshit but don't cross lines. If anything, their recent experiences should humble them and not be xenophobic idiots. I mean sure you can have Tyrande still not care for the Horde(Or Orcs rather, since well they did the tree taking down and well the whole Cenarius thing). I'm still adovcating Ashenvale being one of the Warfronts(Because if Blizzard wants more nostalgia poking, Ashenvale is perfect for that).


It would be cool if Ashenvale is really attacked(Lol again) Cenarius would show up but the rest of the Wild Gods stay back since it's not their place and well Cenarius is the lord of the Forest.

Contrast to the alliance, that are made to be "Yes men" of the humans at large, with all their goals being the same, getting lost within the hegemony of alliance groupthink. It just makes everyone not human loose their identity in a way.

This is more of a design problem. Lore design rather, some races when given a good opportunity well


*Crickets*

Suramar was a good place for Night Elves..........but it didn't go as well.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

what I see is that many players of the alliance are very enthusiastic about the idea of "rebuilding" the seven human kingdoms, I read many saying "nobody cares darmassus"

If that doesn't speak against the insidiousness of the human hegemony I don't know what else does.

Down with human supremacy on the alliance!

in the end all the people who complain will love the void elves.

Duh, they are elves, and we are all basic bitches.

I think that with those colors are fine, more colors ruin the racial aesthetics

Why such limited thinking, think about, the possibilities.

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You decided to bring up savage so I mentioned it. I don't want Night Elves to act dumb, fine don't tolerate bullshit but don't cross lines. If anything, their recent experiences should humble them and not be xenophobic idiots. I mean sure you can have Tyrande still not care for the Horde(Or Orcs rather, since well they did the tree taking down and well the whole Cenarius thing). I'm still adovcating Ashenvale being one of the Warfronts(Because if Blizzard wants more nostalgia poking, Ashenvale is perfect for that).

Yeah but you could not why to reduce a term to it's lowest possible meaning, you get me? My point is that nelf and human ethics and morals and values should have a lot more friction, night elves have quite a different story and, literally inhuman perspective of the world. I'm not talking about dumb exterior policies, I'm talking about going about things differently, the outlook of it all, to really show that night elves aren't humans.

The whole point is about showing that human values/morals/ethics are not inherently right. At the end of the day one of wow's biggest issues it's its over reliance in moral absolutism, which is at odds with their intention of showcasing both horde and alliance having a point.

Ashenvale should definitely be a warfront.

[Rhlor]

If that doesn't speak against the insidiousness of the human hegemony I don't know what else does.

Down with human supremacy on the alliance!



Duh, they are elves, and we are all basic bitches.



Why such limited thinking, think about, the possibilities.

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Yeah but you could not why to reduce a term to it's lowest possible meaning, you get me? My point is that nelf and human ethics and morals and values should have a lot more friction, night elves have quite a different story and, literally inhuman perspective of the world. I'm not talking about dumb exterior policies, I'm talking about going about things differently, the outlook of it all, to really show that night elves aren't humans.

The whole point is about showing that human values/morals/ethics are not inherently right. At the end of the day one of wow's biggest issues it's its over reliance in moral absolutism, which is at odds with their intention of showcasing both horde and alliance having a point.

Ashenvale should definitely be a warfront.

maybe dark grey

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Yeah but you could not why to reduce a term to it's lowest possible meaning, you get me? My point is that nelf and human ethics and morals and values should have a lot more friction, night elves have quite a different story and, literally inhuman perspective of the world. I'm not talking about dumb exterior policies, I'm talking about going about things differently, the outlook of it all, to really show that night elves aren't humans.

The whole point is about showing that human values/morals/ethics are not inherently right. At the end of the day one of wow's biggest issues it's its over reliance in moral absolutism, which is at odds with their intention of showcasing both horde and alliance having a point.

Ashenvale should definitely be a warfront.

Considering how there is some foils to Anduin(Jaina, Genn Greymane). It's not like Humans are totally aligned in how they think, they just aren't outright assholes all the time(Speaking of which if Rodgers isn't around with Genn well that's sad). I doubt Night Elves have too much friction with humans. At worst they may just be less aggressive in combat(Unless you're a Worgen). There's only one issue that should be addressed with Night Elves: How they react to Teldrassil burning. If they don't get some spotlight related to it

Well that hurts the importance of the event.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Check your mentions

I love you.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

maybe dark grey

Such revolutionary thinking, groundbreaking.

I joke, but yeah. Hair dye is a thing in Azeroth, ALL RACES should have a lot of more options. The pandaren female color stripes? love them.

[Steampunkette]

So let's talk about old people.

I'm guessing that if you live in America you probably have that Racist grandparent or aunt or uncle or something who makes people uncomfortable at Thanksgiving Dinner but you really can't -address- the issue 'cause the last time someone tried the racist family member got into a screaming match about how they're "Just telling the truth" or something similar.

Every generation we move further and further forward on the issue of race in America. Sometimes we stumble, and usually we don't make -too- much progress, but we're making our way towards not being completely horrible. But guess what? 40 years from now, you're going to be Racist aunt Erma. At least by comparison to society's new standards that other people get and understand while you're out of touch with the truth 'cause your idea of whatever topic it is was cemented 15-30 years before that point.

Now imagine Racist Aunt Erma is 10,000 years old and got her ideas when she was only 1,000 years old. You know. Back when the Pyramids were being built.

Now imagine an -entire- society like that. Where the oldest people almost invariably had control over society because of royal bloodlines that never really go anywhere 'cause people live for tens of thousands of freaking years.

Tyrande Whisperwind's cultural outlook should be so outdated that Archaeologists don't bother pulling up ancient relics, they just talk to her. Her ideas of what sort of things are or aren't appropriate were cemented into her personality before the Scarab Wall went up in Silithus. Her whole society should be so culturally out of touch with everyone else that it's terrifying.

Instead she's treated as a particularly tall and blue religious human in her 30s-40s.

Narratively speaking, Elves should be regressive as hell, Dwarves only slightly less so, and both view humans as whackjobs who are so quick to grab and discard ideas and social norms that it's amazing they haven't destroyed themselves.

[Deleted]

http://www.wowhead.com/news=277571/v...ilers#comments

So the Alliance get Dreadscar Rift 2.0 and Exodar Mini while the Horde get Suramar and Thunder Totem?

What a joke, we had better get Shadowforge City and Gilneas.

[Rhlor]

Such revolutionary thinking, groundbreaking.

I joke, but yeah. Hair dye is a thing in Azeroth, ALL RACES should have a lot of more options. The pandaren female color stripes? love them.

about void elves I think now you are seeing the truth about this whole thing !! Many complained about not having exactly what they wanted, but the more things they see about them, the more they like them! their aesthetics is great you can not resist!

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I somehow really can't believe a race not changing over 10 thousand years in terms of their morality and or how they feel about others.

So the Alliance get Dreadscar Rift 2.0 and Exodar Mini while the Horde get Suramar and Thunder Totem?

What a joke, we had better get Shadowforge City and Gilneas.

That's assuming it's an actual zone said races get to visit permanently and not just a zone stuck in the leveling area from 20 to whatever(Like Mar'dum).