Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Magnagarde]

I'm happy they put Danath there and I'm also happy they gave him these colors, instead of turning him into yet another Stormwind-styled commander.

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I really want to face these things in Vol'dun;

Whenever I see one of these, I instantly think of Hellfire Peninsula.

[Jack Black]

said it in another thread, that looks like horde leveling gear

Its warrior PvP gear from WotLK. If its red it doesn't mean its Horde.

[Biotec]

said it in another thread, that looks like horde leveling gear

It's old Wrath PVP gear with the shoulders from two different sets colored to be the same.

Just give Danath a new model Blizz, come on. Or at least something that looks a little more regal while still being warrior-inspired like Varian had.

[Daffan]

Still making stuff up again arent we. Ignoring the last 4 years of ppl constantly asking if scenarios coming back

2 people = everyone constantly asking

Scenario = 5 minute dps zerg fest or running around picking up bananas and clicking on things.

And yet, people kept asking for them in later expansions. Should probably not try to talk for everyone.

To me, the Islands seem like an interesting concept. No content is going to stay fresh forever, no matter how different each Island is (its always the same premise afterall, collect Azerite), so the best they can do is make it interesting as long as it can be, and so far it seems to be doing that. Not to mention that small group content without the traditional healer/tank/3dps lineup is always quite interesting for something to do with ones friends.

Yeah its usually a really crap dps zerg like GW2. Even more fun with randoms.

[Venziir]

said it in another thread, that looks like horde leveling gear

It's a mix of two warrior pvp sets from wotlk

[Drekmar]

I have a bad feeling about those island skirmish things.

It's like MOP scenarios level of mehtastic. Nobody would have ever done them in MOP if it wasn't for the daily thing.

People wouldn't do rHC if it wasn't for the daily essences. People wouldnt do M+ if it wasn't for the weekly chest. Mostly everything in this game is done for a reward.

[Phunkle]

That reminds me - any clues whether we're seeing something similar to valor points again so far?

[Deleted]

Why have a clear upgrade path when you can have more RNG!!!

Because randomness is gratifying and fulfilling a set goal isn't

[Marcellus1986]

2 people = everyone constantly asking

Scenario = 5 minute dps zerg fest or running around picking up bananas and clicking on things.



Yeah its usually a really crap dps zerg like GW2. Even more fun with randoms.

It’s obvious reading your keyboard diarrhea that you haven’t watched any of the footage from alpha of the expeditions.

[Steampunkette]

I mean I know if I designed the game it would probably be far more deterministic at least in reward structure. It would probably also make less money though . . .

The real issue is striking the balance between randomization and determinism.

If you run an MMO with a constant influx of monthly subscriptions as the primary, or sole, means of income you -must- keep people subscribed on a month to month basis. Unfortunately, no matter how huge your development team is, you will never be able to produce content at an equal rate to the method of consumption. What takes months to design is eaten up in a few hours of dedicated play.

So you must create false barriers to delay progress. You must invent new ways of slowing down the majority of players without completely undermining their desire to complete the content. Increased randomization is a -very- effective way to do that.

There are other options, like Valor. Where long weeks of effort result in a pre-determined reward. These usually last a month or two as incentive-drivers. But by increasing the randomization of Drops, by adding in Warforging and Titanforging, you can give some portion of the playerbase an increased incentive to rerun content and extend their overall play time, extending your overall profit margin.

But. Every system you add, increases the amount of developer time spent on -that- system, which reduces the profit margin increase in a form of diminishing returns. So, ultimately, it's better to focus on a small number of systems which increase player returns as much as possible.

And you can guess whether Randomization or Determination increases player retention more effectively.

All that said, I hope they create ways for players to skirt around -some- randomization. Like letting us keep our Artifact Weapons going forward by leaving the traits fused but adding new Relic Drops to continue increasing the item level of the weapons themselves... That would -really- help the Dual-Wielding classes a lot.

[Steampunkette]

I honestly prefer time gates to RNG. Use Valor with a weekly cap, have solid crafted gear that requires materials that are crafted with a daily cooldown, gate things being reps that cannot really be grinded past. I personally like all those solutions far more than RNG on top of RNG. The primary gearing is still via RNG by looting gear in actual content but you can have a clear upgrade path by the side for those who are unlucky and/or not doing raid content.

Like, I get that, I totally do. I'd honestly like a variety of methods to get everything rather than just a single one and done (I'd pay real money for the Bloodfang Widow, for example, or love to have both RNG and Deterministic methods of getting ahold of raid gear or at least weapon relics).

But it can't be about that for Blizzard. What they personally like and what's best for the bottom line are sometimes going to be different, and since loot is pretty much -the- central player retention mechanic to maintain continued retention, it's the one that's gonna get hit by that bottom line.

[Nathanyel]

I honestly prefer time gates to RNG.

People hate those, though. With RNG, you can trick your mind into believing that you'll be lucky.

Time gates, no matter how well-constructed and believable, make people feel like they have to wait just for the sake of waiting. The backlash about the timegating on the Broken Shore was immense, and more than drowned out any complaints about RNG for its duration.

[Deleted]

The backlash about the timegating on the Broken Shore was immense, and more than drowned out any complaints about RNG for its duration.

People complained because the gating didn't reward anything in the end. IoT gating was gratifying because it rewarded mounts and an interesting story.
Broken Shore 'campaign' was doing the stuff you did on day one for 12 weeks.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

People complained because the gating didn't reward anything in the end. IoT gating was gratifying because it rewarded mounts and an interesting story.
Broken Shore 'campaign' was doing the stuff you did on day one for 12 weeks.

I don't disagree the Broken Shore was underwhelming as a *campaign*. I can guess why that is but regardless of why, it still deserved better.

[Steampunkette]

The salient point was that the problem with the Broken Shore was not the timegating itself.

I kinda feel like it was?

Now that the timegating is -almost- gone, there, it's a lot more enjoyable to rush through it with alts going after their Class Mounts. The story itself is minimal, sadly, and doesn't bear much impact, but that's a common problem to any Daily Zone. Which is what Isle of Thunder, Vale of Eternal Blossoms, Firelands Incursion, and previous daily zones all were.

I honestly hate dailies. I'm -so- glad they got phased out in favor of World Quests that give me variety, choice, and reward options that feel like it's more under my control.

[Steampunkette]

Well Broken Shore had no story whatsoever. Those other places you mentioned all had some story (heck Isle of Thunder had a LOT of story).

Sure, but it was all so -disjointed-. Here's an area where the various Mogu Lords are buried! And over here is the Saurok part of the Island. WATCH OUT FOR DINOSAURS!

Mostly I'm talking about the dailies, rather than the actual weekly story progress, here.

[Corroc]

I feel like I'm moving up in the ranks.
Mop beta
Legion beta
and now alpha!

[Lahis]

Today I'm on a mission to figure out what the Spade is used for in island expeditions

Find "soft spots" on the sand. Yuo can dig up people, chests, something from those.

[Ningjinq]

Well, they said I believe what the issue was with Broken Shore. They were going to gate the content itself as well but then realized that was an even more awful idea so they just unlocked everything at once.

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I was wondering with datamining and things hitting the database, how much does Blizzard control what hits the builds?

By that I mean, did they know things like the Mag’har armor and mount were going to hit Alpha builds? What about the Dark Iron totems indicating shamans? And Kul Tiran bear form indicating Druid?

[Corroc]

Well, they said I believe what the issue was with Broken Shore. They were going to gate the content itself as well but then realized that was an even more awful idea so they just unlocked everything at once.

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I was wondering with datamining and things hitting the database, how much does Blizzard control what hits the builds?

By that I mean, did they know things like the Mag’har armor and mount were going to hit Alpha builds? What about the Dark Iron totems indicating shamans? And Kul Tiran bear form indicating Druid?

Afaik they confirmed all the allied races in Q/A so. Even Kul'tirans which was just speculation before.