Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Seramore]

It was garbage, pretty clearly. Anyone claiming T11 was "good raidin'" is either:

A) Rose-tinted to the max.

B) Trolling.

or

C) Such a weirdo outlier that he should be ignored.

Firelands and Dragon Soul could, just about, be arguable (particularly Firelands), but T11 was utter trash.

And let's be real, Ion is a massive shit-talker, but one thing which he said which was undeniably real was that Cataclysm was "log in, get summoned to raid, raid, log out", and it wasn't enjoyable, and it wasn't good for the game. I didn't come back until the end of Pandaria as a result.

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Did I make an assumption?

As far as I can see you made two wrong assumptions:

1) That I love more things being on the GCD (man what again).

2) That more things being on the GCD makes the game play really badly. (In reality it barely changes things for most specs of most classes - certainly the ones I've tried, but TBH I do loathe Fury so I haven't tried that - that's one spec though).

But AFAICT I made zero wrong assumptions, except possibly assuming you had an argument. Is that it?

Not only does your original post completely discredit any potential argument you wrote, the fact that you forgot what your assumptions were just make what you say even less relevant.

[Nalera]

Arms
Protection
Holy
Protection
Retribution
Survival
Marksmanship
Beast Mastery
Assassination
Combat
Holy
Shadow
Discipline
Frost
Blood
Unholy
Enhancement
Restoration
Elemental
Frost
Fire
Arcane
Affliction
Demonology
Destruction
Brewmaster
Windwalker
Mistweaver
Guardian
Feral
Restoration
Balance
Vengeance
Havoc

there is nobody not "devastated" by this change, because it feels like shit for everybody.

Lol? You just listed every spec now go through every spec and actually articulate like a big boy why. That's a lot harder to do.

[Eurhetemec]

One of the arguments regarding transmog is also rather silly. Yes there were 21 takes on mage armor, ignoring how that is inflated with shared sets and non-mage themed garbage, but there is also a huge gradient in quality over those 21 sets. 50+% of them I wouldn't want to be caught in dead. The older ones are also extremely low res often. Getting new ones, even if they are just reimaginations, is kinda nice, especially since the quality improves considerably.

I think I see both sides on this argument, but I do think it is legit to try and move away from making so there are basically only two types of transmog out there on 90% of players:

1) A class set with a weapon that matches the look.

and

2) Slutmog.

I guess there's also

3) THE BIGGEST BRIGHTEST LOUDEST GEAR I OWN. But that's a lot less common than the other two.

And then there's a tiny minority of actual creative mogs.

If we had say, four-five pretty cool-looking sets per class that people actually wanted to mog, from an expansion, I think things might end up looking more interesting. And particularly this is an issue because even with class sets, it's very clear that 90% of them get ignored. People are always like "OH I LOVE CLASS SETS I NEED MORE!" and then like, you watch what they actually mog, and it's like 2 of the 21 class sets, and it's like, do you REALLY love class sets, because you sure don't act like it.

[Seramore]

No kidding I play demo warlock on live and the BfA version is night and day more fun to play they don't really have anything that was off GCD anyway even in legion. Balance druids also only have one thing that really is impacted by it and since they don't chain cool downs in a row the impact does not feel that bad. Now there are some classes hit hard by this but it is by no means all of them.

Sorry, but every class is negatively affected by this change. Please name a class that would say "wow I'm really glad this ability is on a GCD, it increases the pleasurability of the gameplay of this spec!"

Lol? You just listed every spec now go through every spec

haha nice observation, I'm surprised you figured that out haha

[TheFirstOnes]

Survival against what? The people who don't really want to fight them all that much?

That's what Ion said, not me.

[Eurhetemec]

Not only does your original post completely discredit any potential argument you wrote, the fact that you forgot what your assumptions were just make what you say even less relevant.

So you have no kind of argument, just a few cheap, lazy, ad hominems? Okay, sure thing buddy. Nobody even knows what you're referring to at this point, given how incredibly vague you are being (presumably because if you weren't being vague, you'd have to make an actual argument, which you have no interest in doing).

[Seramore]

So you have no kind of argument, just a few cheap, lazy, ad hominems? Okay, sure thing buddy. Nobody even knows what you're referring to at this point, given how incredibly vague you are being (presumably because if you weren't being vague, you'd have to make an actual argument, which you have no interest in doing).

If you didn't have dementia, you'd realize my argument is that this change isn't positive.

[Eurhetemec]

Sorry, but every class is negatively affected by this change. Please name a class that would say "wow I'm really glad this ability is on a GCD, it increases the pleasurability of the gameplay of this spec!"

They aren't though, not meaningfully. You're just a guy on the internet talking nonsense because he's not in the beta. Most classes are are largely unaffected. They may TECHNICALLY be "affected negatively", but it's like claiming you've been "WOUNDED!!!" when you have a paper cut.

If you didn't have dementia, you'd realize my argument is that this change isn't positive.

No, that's a claim. It's not an argument. An argument needs to be, well, argued. You've just made vague claims with no supporting evidence, and little or no logic.

[Seramore]

They aren't though, not meaningfully. You're just a guy on the internet talking nonsense because he's not in the beta. Most classes are are largely unaffected. They may TECHNICALLY be "affected negatively", but it's like claiming you've been "WOUNDED!!!" when you have a paper cut.

They are, though.

source: I actually have the beta

wow what a plot twist that wasn't hinted at when I originally said "guess both of our accusations were wrong"

can you give an actual reason about how I'm wrong, and how this change positively affects classes, instead of fixating on the "clear" fact that somebody doesn't have the alpha for the 6th time as a defense for your argument

[Eurhetemec]

They are, though.

source: I actually have the beta

wow what a plot twist

I believe you may technically have access.

I don't believe for a second you've actually played it much, if at all, because otherwise your weepy "OMG ALL THE CLASSES R HAVE BIN RUNED!!!" nonsense would have stopped, because in fact, it's a minor annoyance at worst for most specs, less important and annoying than a lot of other changes.

For example, Marks Hunter - the total pain of the GCD change (esp. with Disengage being fixed) is LESS than re-introducing fucking Steady Shot. That is a bigger, worse negative than the entire GCD change for Marks. Overall I think Marks is very slightly in a better place than live, but it's narrow because FUCK STEADY SHOT.

[Seramore]

I believe you may technically have access.

I don't believe for a second you've actually played it much, if at all, because otherwise your weepy "OMG ALL THE CLASSES R HAVE BIN RUNED!!!" nonsense would have stopped, because in fact, it's a minor annoyance at worst for most specs, less important and annoying than a lot of other changes.

For example, Marks Hunter - the total pain of the GCD change (esp. with Disengage being fixed) is LESS than re-introducing fucking Steady Shot. That is a bigger, worse negative than the entire GCD change for Marks. Overall I think Marks is very slightly in a better place than live, but it's narrow because FUCK STEADY SHOT.

so your argument about how I'm wrong about the gcd change feeling bad and is negative, is that it does actually feel bad and still negatively affects gameplay, but is overshadowed by another worse feeling gameplay change in regards to ability design for marksmanship

[Eurhetemec]

so your argument about how I'm wrong about it feeling bad, is that it does feel bad and still negatively affects gameplay, but is overshadowed by another worse feeling gameplay change

I'm saying it's a paper cut and you're crying like your entrails have spilled out on the floor and you have minutes to live.

That's what I'm saying.

If you want to say "WELL TECHNICALLY ITS NEGATIVE SO I WIN!", well, no, because you foolishly claimed earlier on that it SIGNIFICANTLY negatively impacted gameplay. And it doesn't. You're straight-up wrong. It doesn't significantly affect gameplay for most specs at all. So even if it is negative, because you foolishly claimed that earlier, your goose don' be cooked son. If only you had stuck to just claiming "technically a negative" or something.

I guess you're admitting you haven't actually played the beta much, if it all, so kudos for that.

[Seramore]

I'm saying it's a paper cut and you're crying like your entrails have spilled out on the floor and you have minutes to live.

That's what I'm saying.

If you want to say "WELL TECHNICALLY ITS NEGATIVE SO I WIN!", well, no, because you foolishly claimed earlier on that it SIGNIFICANTLY negatively impacted gameplay. And it doesn't. You're straight-up wrong. It doesn't significantly affect gameplay for most specs at all. So even if it is negative, because you foolishly claimed that earlier, your goose don' be cooked son. If only you had stuck to just claiming "technically a negative" or something.

I guess you're admitting you haven't actually played the beta much, if it all, so kudos for that.

actually, my original claim was

Arms
Protection
Holy
Protection
Retribution
Survival
Marksmanship
Beast Mastery
Assassination
Combat
Holy
Shadow
Discipline
Frost
Blood
Unholy
Enhancement
Restoration
Elemental
Frost
Fire
Arcane
Affliction
Demonology
Destruction
Brewmaster
Windwalker
Mistweaver
Guardian
Feral
Restoration
Balance
Vengeance
Havoc

there is nobody not "devastated" by this change, because it feels like shit for everybody.

if not a single class is positively affected by this change, I would consider that a devastation in design and a significant effect on gameplay

[Eurhetemec]

if not a single class is positively affected by this change, I would consider that a devastation in design

Daaaamn. You don' son, it's over. You can't just respec what you said earlier, like some dubious politician. You said:

"there is nobody not "devastated" by this change, because it feels like shit for everybody."

That's real clear and that's real wrong. Most specs are not "devastated". It does not "feel like shit" for most specs. It doesn't even feel meaningfully different for most specs that I've tried. I'm sure it feels like shit for Fury Warriors, but I haven't enjoyed Fury since what, Cata or something?

That's the end of this argument. You can content yourself that I do agree that it's a largely negative change (certainly on a spec-by-spec basis - maybe it'll improve the game overall - I very much doubt it, but I guess we'll see in a few months, if it goes live). It's just that the amount it's negative is tiny for most specs, so much smaller than all the other negatives and positives in the class changes that it's totally lost in the mix.

[Seramore]

Also I find it quite ironic how you keep mentioning that I don't have an actual argument when you jumped from me not having beta as a defense to your arguments, to me not playing the beta enough as a defense to your arguments.

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Daaaamn. You don' son, it's over. You can't just respec what you said earlier, like some dubious politician. You said:

"there is nobody not "devastated" by this change, because it feels like shit for everybody."

That's real clear and that's real wrong. Most specs are not "devastated". It does not "feel like shit" for most specs. It doesn't even feel meaningfully different for most specs that I've tried. I'm sure it feels like shit for Fury Warriors, but I haven't enjoyed Fury since what, Cata or something?

That's the end of this argument. You can content yourself that I do agree that it's a largely negative change. It's just that the amount it's negative is tiny for most specs, so much smaller than all the other negatives and positives in the class changes that it's totally lost in the mix.

What the fuck are you talking about? I literally re-iterated that everybody is "devastated" by this change.

if not a single class is positively affected by this change, I would consider that a devastation in design and a significant effect on gameplay

[Magnagarde]

That's just not true though, because the vast majority of people engaging in truly pointless negativity haven't actually tried the specs out, so they cannot have "tested them, given feedback, and been ignored". Also given they only put the GCD change in a few weeks ago (is it a month even?), expect them to revert it already is just ridiculous and laughable.

Trying to justify it without having it get tested more than "a few weeks" is therefore as equally laughable as this.

I'm not really concerned by it as I'll play either way, but I've read the feedback given, I've played through 8 different classes and can agree with almost all objective observations.

[Lightwysh]

LOL at people "devastated" by GCD changes.

Like how do you get so far outside of reality that something like this devastates you?

Personally I don't mind the change. I don't use burst macros nor does something being on/off the gcd really matter IMO.

I can maybe see making sure defensives are off GCD, or on their own GCD, but offensives should 110% all be on the GCD.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

LOL at people "devastated" by GCD changes.

Like how do you get so far outside of reality that something like this devastates you?

Personally I don't mind the change. I don't use burst macros nor does something being on/off the gcd really matter IMO.

I can maybe see making sure defensives are off GCD, or on their own GCD, but offensives should 110% all be on the GCD.

You mean offensive Cds and not rotational abilities.

[Seramore]

LOL at people "devastated" by GCD changes.

Like how do you get so far outside of reality that something like this devastates you?

Personally I don't mind the change. I don't use burst macros nor does something being on/off the gcd really matter IMO.

I can maybe see making sure defensives are off GCD, or on their own GCD, but offensives should 110% all be on the GCD.

I said classes are devastated, not actual people. Do yourself a favor and read full discussions, or at least a full post, before deciding to interject on something that somebody didn't even imply.

[Lightwysh]

You mean offensive Cds and not rotational abilities.

Rotational and offensive should be on the GCD