Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[rda]

Individually Allied Races are fairly resource-light and easy to produce, but collectively the 8-10+ of them together are significantly more effort than 1-2 "regular" races would take. We're talking 3-4 times the number of faces, skin textures, ...

All allied races we currently have use models and textures that were already in the game. You are at best talking about some hypothetical future.

Moreover, you are saying that you disagree that allied races are low effort, but then you are juxtaposing 1-2 regular races and 8-10 allied races. You are saying 8-10 allied races are more effort but if, say, at 6-7 allied races you'd say "it's about equal", then that's a definition of low effort even taking your hypotheticals at face value. When people are saying that allied races are low effort, they mean that a single allied race is much lower effort than a single traditional race. They are right in this and with the current allied races they are as right as 2+2=4 is correct.

I am not saying that allied races are a bad feature, they are a good feature. Easy content at next to no dev cost is good, they should pick low-hanging fruit like that left and right. But let's not make allied races something they are not, they are little more than a checkbox to play in NPC skins.

[Marlamin]

The 8.0 Patch and BfA as a whole is of a level of quality that is below Blizzard.

I'm not ready to judge BfA as a whole yet, but other than that you seem to be preaching to the choir.

[Doomchicken]

I'm not ready to judge BfA as a whole yet

That would be the wisest thing to do, especially considering we don't know anything about post launch content.

But certain people will be perpetually salty.

[Broken Fox]

This patch screams "rushed".

Shareholder meddling.

Yeah I’m sure the shareholders gained a lot from a pre-patch, lol...

[rda]

Something that would cheer me up: Ion announcing in the Q&A that they are forfeiting the cost of a sub to players who play for more than X years.

(I kid, it won't happen. I wouldn't mind some movements on that front though. Maybe some discounts or free services.)

[Doomchicken]

Yeah I’m sure the shareholders gained a lot from a pre-patch, lol...

especially since the important parts are per Quarterly...and unless my math is wrong, that was LAST month, not this month.

[Deleted]

I think they may have finally screwed the pooch on this one. They've gone too long without any real competition. Become complacent.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...f_quality_that

The 8.0 Patch and BfA as a whole is of a level of quality that is below Blizzard.

Oh this would make a pretty good villain monologue like the ones we got from Kael'Thas, Zul'Jin and Putress.

"You have become complacent. You believed nothing or nobody can challenge you. You were wrong. And now everything you hold dear will fall."

[Broken Fox]

Oh this would make a pretty good villain monologue like the ones we got from Kael'Thas, Zul'Jin and Putress.

"You have become complacent. You believed nothing or nobody can challenge you. You were wrong. And now everything you hold dear will fall."

Isnt that pretty much Darth Malgus’ speech from that TOR trailer hahaha

[Deleted]

Isnt that pretty much Darth Malgus’ speech from that TOR trailer hahaha

In Return? Kinda yes.

[rda]

By the way, with connection issues being more or less over, scaling issues being an old hat, and people looking for things to do, the focus is turning to the war mode.

And, surprise, surprise, it's only good as a way to turn this world "PVP" off. :-)

Example thread:

"ok... so i dont complain about world pvp but when u have a raid size group of horde camping the spawn points on argus for the raid please add peacekeepers. should not take me 30 min to do a turn in WQ. i know i could turn WM off but i enjoy pvp servers since vanilla but plz can we get some help i am dead after that small loading screen and can tdo anything since the graveyard respawn is right beside it"

[Gorsameth]

Ah all these new people that have never done actual world PvP.
This is what world pvp is. Its not fair or 'fun'. There is a reason it completely died out the moment another alternative was offered (battlegrounds).

[rda]

Exactly. /10ch

[Doomchicken]

Ah all these new people that have never done actual world PvP.
This is what world pvp is. Its not fair or 'fun'. There is a reason it completely died out the moment another alternative was offered (battlegrounds).

I saw a thread on the official forums and it literally made me cringe at how stupid it was. Like, just turn off the damn pvp mode....or actually socialize with people and make your own group to combat them. It just baffles me how stupid some people on the official forums truly are.

[Deleted]

They literally launched a feature(communities) that basically broke the game at a fundamental level. It set their server infrastructure on fire.

If that doesn't scream "rushed piece of shit" I don't know what does.

I was a little disappointed that the class whining posts were overshadowed by "CANT LOG IN" at 8.0 launch. But they're definitely still there.

Now to wait for actual launch when the masses see the shit show. I've got popcorn. It's going to be beautiful.

- - - Updated - - -



Allied Races. Literally a low effort feature designed for that audience, overshadowing any other issue.

Slootbag, good player. Fatboss is a great team too. For a second I thought you said FinalBoss. That dude is garbage.

In a true case of schadenfreude, I was also mildly sad that the class change outrage was overshadowed by the game being broken as fuck. I know that makes me a bad person but after months of feedback being met with 'It's Alpha, stop complaining', I don't care.

[rda]

I saw a thread on the official forums and it literally made me cringe at how stupid it was. Like, just turn off the damn pvp mode....or actually socialize with people and make your own group to combat them.

You started well ("turn off the damn pvp mode") and then went bananas ("make your own group to combat them"). The latter does not help anything and is just as damn boring and pointless. You are just pressing an AOE button for an hour counting honor kills.

[Hitei]

You made two mistakes here. Your first was actually reading a post from scarecrowz. Your second mistake was responding to a scarecrowz post. Dude will be banned again soon anyway (lol)

scarecrowz is fine, just overly negative and too quick to see everything in that light.

All allied races we currently have use models and textures that were already in the game. You are at best talking about some hypothetical future.

Moreover, you are saying that you disagree that allied races are low effort, but then you are juxtaposing 1-2 regular races and 8-10 allied races. You are saying 8-10 allied races are more effort but if, say, at 6-7 allied races you'd say "it's about equal", then that's a definition of low effort even taking your hypotheticals at face value. When people are saying that allied races are low effort, they mean that a single allied race is much lower effort than a single traditional race. They are right in this and with the current allied races they are as right as 2+2=4 is correct.

I am not saying that allied races are a bad feature, they are a good feature. Easy content at next to no dev cost is good, they should pick low-hanging fruit like that left and right. But let's not make allied races something they are not, they are little more than a checkbox to play in NPC skins.

This is quite wrong in several ways.

HMT have new textures, Nightborne have new textures (their models actually also aren't the same as night elves, they're slightly modified to be thinner and things, but whatever), Void Elves have entirely new textures (significantly more muscle and bone definition to give them a leaner look, as with Nightborne). LFD are the only ones who use the same base textures, and even they have a completely new set of horns, hair, facial hair, etc made specifically for them (and expanded on beyond the ones used in Argus). Likewise, VE and NB also have entirely new hair textures and models. So no, I'm talking about all allied races, even without looking at the BfA set.

This effort logic is highly flawed. Like to the point that I don't even know why you actually bothered to type it out. Even if 6-7 allied races were "about equal" to a normal race, they've already made 8 and there will probably be another 2-4 later in the expansion. So no, it isn't the definition of low effort, because more effort is being put into the allied races this expansion than would be put into regular races.

2+2=4, but what you are arguing is that because 2 is less than 4, having two four-packs of beer is having more beer than having 10 two-packs. 20 is not less than 8. It just isn't.

I think you are under the serious misconception that all of this stuff was made for the NPCs and then just adapted to be an allied race, when it should be painfully obvious that the reason these specific NPC races were given so much extra detail and customizability is because from the start Blizzard knew they were going to end up allied races. It isn't hard to look at Taunka and see how little eforrt went into them as compared to the HMT, or the Zandalari on Isle of Thunder as compared to something like the Nightborne. It's why as soon as people saw the Army of Light Draenei on Argus, the immediate assumption was that the reason why they were so high quality and had such variable customization was that those new horns, hairstyles and facial hair were going to end up in player hands.

[Archmage Alodi]

I don't think anyone would disagree

Couple of white knights in this thread would disagree for sure.

[rda]

I think you are under the serious misconception that all of this stuff was made for the NPCs and then just adapted to be an allied race, when it should be painfully obvious ...

It was exactly this. Your "painfully obvious" is your imagination which makes you think you are seeing things that aren't there.

They do likely develop certain races as NPC+allied now, but I doubt the additional effort is that high (a fraction of that for a real race) and it only started after the first four.

I won't bother replying point by point, but only because I don't want to have one more set of pages in which it would appear that I am again complaining when I am not.

[Nyel]

Pre-patch must be out on time.

Wasn't tested properly. Feedback ignored.

Any person on Beta knows the expansion is also rushed.

Keep defending though.

Exactly. Pre-patch feels rushed and the release of BfA will feel rushed too. Don't know why they felt the need to release it now instead of two or three months later. An October or November BfA launch with pre patch in September would have felt much better and they would have had enough time to fix specs (fixes they delay now until 8.1). I mean even a release in September with pre patch in August like MoP would felt a lot better than the mess we have now and for sure will have during the first weeks of BfA.

[Hitei]

It was exactly this. Your "painfully obvious" is your imagination which makes you think you are seeing things that aren't there.

They do likely develop certain races as NPC+allied now, but I doubt the additional effort is that high (a fraction of that for a real race) and it only started after the first four.

I won't bother replying point by point, but only because I don't want to have one more set of pages in which it would appear that I am again complaining when I am not.

It isn't my imagination, it's common sense.

Naga were updated in legion to very high quality models. Do you know what their customization options are? Skin color. They are Legion-based NPCs who were given brand new model for both sexes, and their variation is limited solely to the same option that any given random animal or monster has.

The effort of a single allied race is less than that of a regular race, but the effort of 8, or 10, or 12 of them is completely beyond that of a normal race, especially when you look at Kul Tirans and Zandalari. I mean hell, even just looking at the Worgen druid forms and then the new druid forms should immediately tell you there is no lack of effort involved in the production of allied races.