Shoulder and Denial Nerf Inc.

[Deleted]

All pure classes should always have one spec at the sharp end of the meters.

no they shouldn't.

They should be no different than a ret pally/ boomkin,\ frost dk /etc etc.

[Deleted]

You realize that there are rogue specs other than sub right? Did you think that Outlaw was in dire need of a nerf with their hugely overtuned damage? Rather than blizzard nerfing an overtuned spec and buffing undertuned specs to give some semblance of a choice for the players, we just end up with this shitshow where two specs get fucked because some monkey decided nerfing legendaries was the way to go. You should apply for a class design position with that kind of brilliant insight.

if sub is better, why do you play outlaw or assa? k don't understand how you are on a pve forum and talking about min maxing legendaries if ur not prepared to change spec

[Deleted]

no they shouldn't.

They should be no different than a ret pally/ boomkin,\ frost dk /etc etc.

That's a statement not an argument.

[Xelion]

if sub is better, why do you play outlaw or assa? k don't understand how you are on a pve forum and talking about min maxing legendaries if ur not prepared to change spec

? Have you looked at warcraft logs? Have you messaged every single player who is not playing the top spec for their class on any given mythic fight and told them what filthy casuals they are? You mean you haven't done that?

Where am I talking about min-maxing legendaries? I'll spell it out for you since you seem to be completely fucking retarded: nerfing legendaries was not the way to go because you've fucked over outlaw and assassination rogues as well, neither of which needed a nerf. Shuriken combo bonus damage was the only thing that needed to be tuned, as it is the sole reason why you see sub rogues doing so much boss damage on mistress and host.

Half the people on this forum likely haven't stepped into mythic yet, mmochampion is not some elitist haven where all the top tier players come to chat btw, hate to burst that bubble.

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Don't try to take the highroad now; you dismissed anything i said when you tried acting superior with 'i dont know why im even replying to you'..
If im wrong about the rotation mentioned; explain the mistake and correct me, no need to get cocky and then expect a decent response.

On; Mantle needed a nerf, having 1 legendary be BiS by a large margin for all 3 specs is bad design.
Does this screw over Outlaw? Yeah, it kinda does, since the spec is already bottom of the barrel (and has been bare a week after release and a couple days prior to NH).
Doesn't mean the Mantle nerf is unjustified tho.
Just swapping out the Mantle for Ravenholdt (with the replacement gear being far higher ilvl then the ring im replacing btw) im losing 50k dps in simcraft.
Should any legendary really have that much power?
For all 3 specs?
No.

Ambush generates 2 combo points, you want to vanish at 4 cp.

Should mantle be the only viable choice on pretty much everu fight? No of course not, I'm sure blizzard dreams of a utopia where the belt and the healing legs are as equally used in mythic as shoulders/bracers.
You know what a possible solution to that problem would be? BUFFING the shit legendaries. As it stands blizzard has just nerfed our damage (because every rogue that has been playing since close to the start of Legion has all legendaries for their main spec), and now a bunch of mouthbreathers have leapt into this threat to point out that 'ur leggos r closer together in value gais, y r u complaining??'

[Akachan]

Cant say Im surprised though. They are notorious for taking the scumbag easy way out instead of doing the actual work of fixing mechanics.

[Xelion]

if sub is better, why do you play outlaw or assa? k don't understand how you are on a pve forum and talking about min maxing legendaries if ur not prepared to change spec

Because I find it more fun, and my guild is not in the top 100 so I'm fine to play whatever I want as long as I pull ok numbers. Blizzard specifically said at the start of this expansion that they didn't want to keep radically shifting balance so players felt they had to keep switching specs to stay on top. Would you agree that that has been an incredibly successful design goal so far?

You're absolutely right though, and I assume that since you're asking me this you must have also messaged every single person who is not playing the top spec for their class on any given mythic fight, and told them what filthy casuals they are, and not to complain if their spec stays in the shitter for the rest of the expansion. I think it's worth the possible infraction/ban to call you a fucking retard, because that's what you are.

You should try and understand that this 'rebalancing legendaries' this is just a straight up nerf to all three specs, because the other legendaries are as trash as they have always been, when only one spec needed tuning down slightly (shuriken combo bonus damage would have been a much better target for a nerf imo, as I've already said in this thread).

The fact that you think mmochampion is some elitist haven where all the top tier players come to talk about stuff is a bit confusing as well, I'm sure that at least half the posters/visitors here haven't set foot in mythic yet.

[Xelion]

Don't try to take the highroad now; you dismissed anything i said when you tried acting superior with 'i dont know why im even replying to you'..
If im wrong about the rotation mentioned; explain the mistake and correct me, no need to get cocky and then expect a decent response.

On; Mantle needed a nerf, having 1 legendary be BiS by a large margin for all 3 specs is bad design.
Does this screw over Outlaw? Yeah, it kinda does, since the spec is already bottom of the barrel (and has been bare a week after release and a couple days prior to NH).
Doesn't mean the Mantle nerf is unjustified tho.
Just swapping out the Mantle for Ravenholdt (with the replacement gear being far higher ilvl then the ring im replacing btw) im losing 50k dps in simcraft.
Should any legendary really have that much power?
For all 3 specs?
No.

You're right, I was a (bit of a) dick, sorry. You should vanish on 4 cp, as Ambush generates 2cp.

I would be fine with a mantle nerf, if they gave outlaw the same kind of shitty bandaid aura fix they've used all expansion (3% more damage, spec fixed amirite). But this is blizzard, so I'm not actually confident if their chimps (class designers) are even aware that they've nerfed outlaw and assassination.

Mantle is only such a large dps increase for outlaw though, for sub the vigor ring is a lot closer and can be used instead of shoulders (especially with the 4p t20). Assassination I'm unsure of but I don't think mantle is as strong for them as it is for outlaw either.

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if sub is better, why do you play outlaw or assa? k don't understand how you are on a pve forum and talking about min maxing legendaries if ur not prepared to change spec

Because I find it more fun, and my guild is not in the top 100 so I'm fine to play whatever I want as long as I pull ok numbers. Blizzard specifically said at the start of this expansion that they didn't want to keep radically shifting balance so players felt they had to keep switching specs to stay on top. Would you agree that that has been an incredibly successful design goal so far?

You're absolutely right though, and I assume that since you're asking me this you must have also messaged every single person who is not playing the top spec for their class on any given mythic fight, and told them what filthy casuals they are, and not to complain if their spec stays in the shitter for the rest of the expansion. I think it's worth the possible infraction/ban to call you a fucking retard, because that's what you are.

You should try and understand that this 'rebalancing legendaries' is just a straight up nerf to all three specs, because the other legendaries are as trash as they have always been, and only one spec needed tuning down slightly (shuriken combo bonus damage would have been a much better target for a nerf imo, as I've already said in this thread).

The fact that you think mmochampion is some elitist haven where all the top tier players come to talk about stuff is a bit confusing as well, I'm sure that at least half the posters/visitors here haven't set foot in mythic yet.

[Jarg]

What I find hilarious is the phrasing of the wrist nerf.



The wrists don't reduce anything. They EXTEND the duration of Shadow Blades. They are so fucking clueless they don't even know what their own items actually do.

Its just shows how fucking clueless you are about mechanics.

[Deleted]

Its just shows how fucking clueless you are about mechanics.

You have 0 mythic experience, who are you to speak about mechanics?

[Jarg]

You have 0 mythic experience, who are you to speak about mechanics?

Is that related to how spells/icds/other working under the hood?

[Xelion]

Is that related to how spells/icds/other working under the hood?

'Your finishing moves extend the duration of Shadow Blades by 0.3 sec for each combo point spent.'

Nothing to do with 'how things work under the hood', 7eq is right, the wrists don't reduce the cooldown of anything, can't see how you're possibly trying to argue that.

[Deleted]

to give a statement about the nerf:

Mantle:
assuming they didn't fix the Vanish bug we lose close to nothing if we start using the bug(video showing the bug ,it works for all 3 specs, the video is just showcasing it using sub)

Denial:
Its a 1/3 cut to the legendary, seems a rather big hit for st fights but we will be okay.
bracers stay the strongest legendary in the major cases others just get closer to it.

[Coldkil]

No need to be rude against other people in here or even Blizzard. Rude words don't make any argumentation better or more valid.

[RobertoCarlos]

No need to be rude against other people in here or even Blizzard. Rude words don't make any argumentation better or more valid.

The legendary system has gotten everyone a little hot under the collar at some point. I'm glad I took a break after clearing heroic otherwise I would be damn upset at how difficult blizzard is making it to enjoy legion when it's so close to being a good game again

[Deleted]

Im okay with that if they add a flat 5-6% buff to sin/outlaw

[Sephiroso]

Im okay with that if they add a flat 5-6% buff to sin/outlaw

they're not. i can't rightfully call blizzard's balance team what they are less coldkil infracts me for it.

[Riverr]

The numbers are for BIS combos:
Sub: ~5% nerf
Sin: ~2% nerf

Sadly for sin, this hurts your opener rotation more than anything else. I think the sub nerf might be a bit too harsh, they were mostly fantastic for add wave fights. The saddest thing is that sin is currently very middle of the pack (or lower), so an aura buff seems warranted. I haven't included Outlaw because they haven't really been a contender through the expansion outside early theory crafting.

[Coldkil]

The legendary system has gotten everyone a little hot under the collar at some point. I'm glad I took a break after clearing heroic otherwise I would be damn upset at how difficult blizzard is making it to enjoy legion when it's so close to being a good game again

Well, it's one of the reasons why i stopped playing Legion before entering Nighthold (main is being bored of a game which is the same after 10+ years).

Let's be clear. I'm not against criticism against Blizzard as i think a lot of stuff in Legion is cool only on paper but made the whole thing way too grindy and RNG dominated when WoW simply is not the type of game where you want this high degree of RNG.

My point is simply that calling Blizzard employees names won't have any sort of effect whatsoever in game development and makes the whole thread just look bad as a bunch of people whining at stuff they don't like. It's simply not needed.

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they're not. i can't rightfully call blizzard's balance team what they are less coldkil infracts me for it.

I won't. Not my problem if you do it, but posting just to say "Blizzard are XYZ" doesn't bring the discussion very far. Too much of that and the thread becomes a race at who comes out with the most creative insult.

[Msi]

I think we are by far the number 1 class that got sooo many nerfs this expansion.
God its a fucking frustration to play a rogue :/

[Deix-EU]

At least with rogues you have a viable spec. Get that honor.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps + utility makes it for class stack.