Guild Wars 2 has the best progression system in any MMO that I've ever played.

[Valeron]

Well if mounts are gated behind Masteries I won't bother mate.

I'm still on the fence actually.

The mastery system is tied to mounts but it isn't necessary to progress in the system once you have the mount, which is basically once you get to the Crystal Desert. I hope you won't let that stop you from playing if you enjoy other parts of the game

[Super Kami Dende]

Well whether you agree or disagree, I would think most everyone would agree that it is probably the most alt friendly system out there.

FF14 is the most Alt friendly. Since you literally don't need to have an Alt and can do everything on 1 character.
Swtor is probably the 2nd most Alt friendly to me since all Quick-travel abilities and account systems are spread across characters.

GW2 is fairly meh when it comes to alts. I'd say Legion is more friendly.

[Valeron]

GW2 is fairly meh when it comes to alts. I'd say Legion is more friendly.

How so? I'm genuinely curious.

[Eleccybubb]

The mastery system is tied to mounts but it isn't necessary to progress in the system once you have the mount, which is basically once you get to the Crystal Desert. I hope you won't let that stop you from playing if you enjoy other parts of the game

As I said still on the fence. Masteries are just boring to me. Always have been.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Eh, level caps aren't really "progression" in a meaningful sense there. It doesn't even feel like progression, you're just being pushed backwards for the sake of it. ("Oh no, random ogre is a danger to me again! Well, lets level real fast so he's back to being an afterthought like he was yesterday before the level cap went up.")

I don't mind it when you're starting out and the world is pretty much designed from the ground up to have you grow up from a newbie adventurer just starting out and getting stronger as you explore the world, but after that just raising the level cap constantly feels silly.

I mean, I know they want to have something to time gate things a bit, keep the questing/exploration types happy, and give everyone a reason to go through the new zones and experience the lore, so it's kinda beneficial to the developers to force it in SOME form from a game mechanics standpoint, but lets not pretend that it's some super-important aspect of an MMORPG that must exist.

Hell, frankly it wasn't until WoW came along that the idea raising the level cap EVERY expansion became a thing. EQ would go several expansions without raising it, for example. (In fact, I think they still do stagger level cap increases)

WoW's leveling system and progression is fine. The focus need not be on having it removed for arbitrary reasons such as "I don't think it's a progression!" (it is), but rather on reforming the experiences and bringing old leveling up to the standard of modern areas.

I enjoy entering a new world and gaining levels with every new expansion.

- - - Updated - - -

How so? I'm genuinely curious.

Heirlooms
Catch-up mechanics
Invasions

And in 7.3, it'll be even more alt friendly with automatic AK levels, unlock of third relic slot, account-wide unlocks of certain Argus content etc etc.

Legion is the most alt friendly expansion I've experienced to date (played since WOTLK) both from a replayability-aspect as well as a catch-up aspect.

I don't consider "you don't have a need for alts!" to be alt-friendly... I enjoy playing different characters, races, classes... Emphasis on the word "playing". I enjoy for some things to be unlocked account-wide, but all of them? No thanks.

[Valeron]

Some of that stuff is greek to me. So once you level a character to max level there, everything unlocks account wide (that you achieve with that character)?

[Super Kami Dende]

How so? I'm genuinely curious.

Because I've found it easier leveling multiple Alts in Legion then I have leveling my 3rd/4th Characters in Gw2.

[Valeron]

I don't consider "you don't have a need for alts!" to be alt-friendly... I enjoy playing different characters, races, classes... Emphasis on the word "playing". I enjoy for some things to be unlocked account-wide, but all of them? No thanks.

fair enough, it's subjective I get it

[LilSaihah]

It's really, really silly design. I'm not a fan of it at all, and I'm sad that they seem to be doubling down on it for PoF. It seems extremely anti-casual.

From what I've read (leaks & demo screenies, take it with a grain of salt)

Only the unlock itself is a movement effect. The raptor's first one is a combat upgrade. The last one for each mount gives you another mount's skill (but I'm not sure what precisely that means; whether it's the combat or movement skill).

So you might be in luck, so long as you've just unlocked each of the mounts which come in the story steps?

edit;
Looks like there's actually a +jump range mastery for the raptor. 6 points in.

[Svifnymr]

Because I've found it easier leveling multiple Alts in Legion then I have leveling my 3rd/4th Characters in Gw2.

I played WoW from a little before Wrath to a little before Mists, and it was very alt-unfriendly. I returned for a month in tail end of Mists when they did the coin-gold thing and the mounts/pets had gone account wide which was nice.

Likewise, I'm a regular GW2 player, so leveling an alt is easy since I have so many books or account bumps that they are literally level 80 in the starting zone (free bank NPC, so I bump up level before the first NPC finishes his greeting). That's not typical of a new player, certainly, but there is also a difference in GW2 that none of the content is really non-relevant, so it's not like you need to hit max level and then go somewhere.

That said, how easy is it Legion if you have a top-raid-gear main, to get the alt to that same gear level? I saw a lot of complaints about even gearing alt-specs in Warlords, but I don't even keep up on current WoW anymore.

SW:TOR had the typical WoW problem of mailing stuff to alts, but not too long ago they unlocked all flightpaths for alts when any character unlocked them which is a very nice thing. I know WoW does that when you level bump, but not for all Alts, right? GW2 they unlock like 5 waypoints on a level 80 bump, it's hilarious.

[TheFirstOnes]

As impressive as it is, WoW just does it better.

If anything, WoW and FFXIV are my favorite MMO's.

[Svifnymr]

I don't consider "you don't have a need for alts!" to be alt-friendly... I enjoy playing different characters, races, classes... Emphasis on the word "playing". I enjoy for some things to be unlocked account-wide, but all of them? No thanks.

Back in the Ancient Days of Yore, I had one alt that had a bunch of pets. Each of my alts would earn a main mount and signature pet for themselves. It was so tedious at times.

When they merged pets/mounts and made them account wide, it was so much easier/ better, but also very disappointing in a way. Just sort of made them a little less unique.

[PACOX]

SW:TOR had the typical WoW problem of mailing stuff to alts, but not too long ago they unlocked all flightpaths for alts when any character unlocked them which is a very nice thing. I know WoW does that when you level bump, but not for all Alts, right? GW2 they unlock like 5 waypoints on a level 80 bump, it's hilarious.

Why would they give you all waypoints in GW2 when they're tired to legendaries?


The way WoW handles alt is trash to me unless you have heirlooms. Which means you spend a bunch of sub money. In GW2 you can how better characters at while still keeping access to your guilds (GUILDS), bank inventory, currencies, and in a lot of cases gear. Unlocking something is account wide in most cases except for things tied to story progression and map completion.

WoW: I gotta play or I'll fall behind and I fall behind I'm going to have to spend half my half my sub time to catch up. Damn, DKs are trash this patch, now I have grind ilvls and AP for my druid!?! Repeat every release

GW2: I gotta log in for 2 sec to get this LS episode for free. Shit, I took a break and the meta change, now I have to swap my stats! Hmm,
I don't like playing guardian anymore. Let my swap to my warrior.

[Svifnymr]

Why would they give you all waypoints in GW2 when they're tired to legendaries?

What waypoints are tied to legendaries?
When using the level 80 bump, they should really give at least a couple waypoints in each city, especially Lions Arch. They give you one outside of each city except LA and they give you Dry Top/ Silver Marches. They also need to get rid of the LA cinematic when you arrive, old players don't care, new players never saw old LA so also don't care and it relocates you from Asura Gates to north end.

Heirlooms were neat enough in WOW, but were a patch to a flawed system. Then they kept having to invent new ones to extend the level range. Then they added xp to gathering and stuff and you'd outpace zones easily, which sort of defeats the purpose of the leveling experience at all, so may as well just level boost. Then they come up with a level boost and it's so hilariously overpriced it's silly. WoW's cash shop wasn't bad content wise, but prices were just crazy for most stuff even ignoring the fact you have a subscription fee. Okay, that last part isn't about alts, but still amusing to me.

But I could take almost all that until Pandas. :-p (Now they messed up gnome faces so I can never return...)

GW2 does need something like SW:TOR though in that some unlocks in TOR can be account wide or character only, with a price difference. I might buy extra bag slots if there was a bulk/ account wide option for a decent price. Or probably not, I'm too cheap to bother with 20 item bags for some alts...

[PACOX]

What waypoints are tied to legendaries?
When using the level 80 bump, they should really give at least a couple waypoints in each city, especially Lions Arch. They give you one outside of each city except LA and they give you Dry Top/ Silver Marches. They also need to get rid of the LA cinematic when you arrive, old players don't care, new players never saw old LA so also don't care and it relocates you from Asura Gates to north end.

Waypoints are tied to legendaries in that you need need world completion to craft a legendary. I dont seem them changing it since they've rebranded Core, HoT, and PoF and "standalones". Its mostly marketing nonsense but it allows them to justify giving you a bunch legacy/core unlocks.

[Super Kami Dende]

That said, how easy is it Legion if you have a top-raid-gear main, to get the alt to that same gear level? I saw a lot of complaints about even gearing alt-specs in Warlords, but I don't even keep up on current WoW anymore.

I mean, we have been talking about max-level EXP driven progression. I guess I could ask how easy is it to get full ascended on a Elementalist Alt after you've gotten full Ascended on a Warrior Main in GW2 if we are going to compare Alts that way.

[Edge-]

Loathe how masteries gated things, still have yet to complete unlocking them as a result (in part, the other part being that I loathe HoT zones and don't want to do them for the mastery points needed to unlock them to begin with).

I'm fine with alternate progression systems in games, and I'm generally quite a fan of them, but masteries only ended up pissing me off more often than not in HoT. I'm hoping they take the approach to them that they took with the LS updates, those were infinitely less of a pain in the ass to deal with and weren't locking you out of shit for long periods of time while you needed to grind to unlock the mastery to access whatever you needed.

[Jamie081]

It's just another case of locking what you need behind a grind, except what you need is conveniences and not power.

[stomination]

My level 90 priest would fare beautifully in Broken Shores.

Do I need to go on with this?

Actually, there was a fast leveling thing on the broken shore at one time.

[Kazgrel]

It's a decent go at an alternative (in the form of horizontal progression) to the tired old "increase level cap" that we see in just about any and every MMO with vertical progression.

The mastery system, as a concept, is fine; what wasn't fine was it's initial form. Anyone remember Itzel Poison Mastery? I 'member. They went back and either removed the requirement for it for whatever that quest was pretty quickly, though. If/when it's pulled off in a fluid manner that allows you to go through the story without having to stop and grind out mat farming, events, whatever, then that's fine in my book. It was when folks would get stonewalled by high level mastery requirements that made it awful.

On the subject of alts; FF14 does it better, imo. The whole "all classes/jobs on a single character" absolutely spoils you after a while. Decide you want to play as a different race? No problem, aside from having to spend $10. IIRC, the ID Repair Kit in GW2 costs the same, although that at least lets you change your name...but you can't change your race. Eh, on that, I suppose they are even, but not having to re-do the same story or re-acquire all the waypoints again is worth it. Prior to FF14, I would give GW2 the nod as being the most alt friendly of any MMO I've encountered.

Heck, I remember being absolutely furious when ascended gear was unveiled 2-3 months into the game's lifespan. At that time, one of the big promises about GW2 was no vertical progression...yet there we were, faced with vertical progression. I wouldn't play again for another 6-8 months. Then, over the course of about 4-5 months, I finally assembled full ascended gear for my elementalist. I was not a fractal junkie back then (nor have I ever been), so the exotic gear I used up to that point did the job just fine for any content I was tackling. The fun part is the fact that the ascended gear that I farmed up nearly 2 years ago is still pretty much BiS...although that's nothing compared to the gear set I have on my GW1 wammo, which is still BiS after 10+ years...lol. That said, I am fortunate that berserker/power ele is still viable; my luck they could've made a vastly superior condi ele in the time I've spent away.

Whether it's been for better or worse, I can only commend Anet for at least trying to think and work a little outside the box that is ye ol' MMO design. I suppose that's ironic seeing that I've been playing FF14 as my MMO of choice for the past year and a half, but having spent ~2k hours on GW2, I appreciate what they've done there. It isn't perfect, but no game is.