Blizzard just give up on LFR

[Deleted]

"As mentioned in the last developer Q&A, our philosophy toward Raid Finder in Legion has been to reduce the overall number of mechanics, but keep one or two important ones that players will need to react to in order to succeed"

I really don't get it and wonder if it is different on US realms but the experience on EU realms is always a the same.

A couple of people will follow tactics and essentially prop up the rest. Some will do decent dps or healing but ultimately will just tunnel and then there will be those that afk or just don't do even a minimum level.

No amount of work or though as intended by blizzard above will actually change this as we will continue to complete lfr through a combination of the players following tactics propping others up and stacks of determination.

If Blizzard generally want it engaging and making players have to wake up or learn the tactics through lfr they would be better placed to make it a single player experience like scenario where the player doesnt then have a choice but to learn.

As a raider I appreciate everyone has to start somewhere and am not even judging people based upon meters as mechanics are far more important but I seriously doubt that you learn more from lfr in its current state than any video you can watch.

I do appreciate blizzards intention but they have to wake up and realize what lfr currently is for the majority of the community and not rose tint the experience. Sometimes it is painless but many times it is a horrible mess and so long as it can be cleared with a small portion of the group trying people will not learn those encounters, will not learn basic mechanics and will not help with any development of new players into content beyond.

Please blizzard accept what LFR actually is like and put some thought into a different approach.

[zinfandel]

I agree. The death of LFR as a reasonable challenge was the nail in the coffin of me staying on as a super casual. I know loads of folk will say 'pug normal' but this takes time I don't have.

I assume Blizz has metrics that tell them the easier LFR gets the more people play - I'm just not sure who. I can only think it's the under 12 crowd.

[Emerald Archer]

If LFR is harder, people wont' be able to just afk it, meaning they'll get kicked if they do. So eventually people will know in lfr, they need to do shit.

Whereas atm, people know they can afk and it'll all die.

[Deleted]

I agree. I think originally it held a valuable place to teach people to get them ready. It no longer has that value. Blizzard can claim you need to follow tactics but that is not true of all that queue and ultimately those that can do content beyond will normally follow the tactics but there is no incentive for the newer player. As much as people didn't like it I feel that the dungeon scenario from mop was more conducive to teaching people basic mechanics such as interupts, movement, wow and stuns.

I think raiding is befitting of the same treatment rather than the mess that is lfr

[Shamu]

LFR really should be a stop gap between heroic dungeons and full raiding but it has turned a different direction with it being more a chore and people afking the whole thing. in my opinion it should be just short of normal raid and not even have all the bosses. (more like a carrot on a stick to get people to try full time raiding), hell even casual guilds can do heroic raiding though not fast but they can still do it.

or even try a system where each boss gets more harder on lfr.

[Deleted]

I agree again. At the moment the only reason many raiders do lfr is for AP or chance at loot we have missed from normal, HC or mythic. None of us do it for fun.

In my guild we often take pugs and are more than happy to teach them patiently.

I just wish lfr would do more to contribute to a newer players learning. This would help those newer platers get into normals and beyond if that's what they wanted.

[Deleted]

As a mythic (7/9 atm) raider, I really dont understand the point of such threads. Why the hell you people care about LFR?

LFR is for people that dont give a shit about the mechanics and dont wanna learn the game and just wanna say they killed the bosses: LET EM HAVE IT.
If you think its too easy there is normal, hc and even mythic to keep you challenged. Why the fuck you whine about LFR is really out of my mind.

Every time I do LFR I usually do, alone, 20% of the total dmg... i dont give a shit if people are afk or watching tv series, I just do it for runes and AP.

Do the same and mind your own fucking business, for once, and you'll live 100 years.

PS This AINT school, you dont have to teach anybody anything. If people want to learn, they have million ways to do it on their own, and if they dont wanna learn, dont give a shit, its their right to do so. God how much i hate people that FEEL the need they need to tell others what to do, mind your own fucking business.

[Destram]

As a mythic (7/9 atm) raider, I really dont understand the point of such threads. Why the hell you people care about LFR?

LFR is for people that dont give a shit about the mechanics and dont wanna learn the game and just wanna say they killed the bosses: LET EM HAVE IT.
If you think its too easy there is normal, hc and even mythic to keep you challenged. Why the fuck you whine about LFR is really out of my mind.

Every time I do LFR I usually do, alone, 20% of the total dmg... i dont give a shit if people are afk or watching tv series, I just do it for runes and AP.

Do the same and mind your own fucking business, for once, and you'll live 100 years.

People care because a large number of people still run LFR just for the legendary chance/to build back luck protection. You can get a legendary a week if you clear every raid on LFR, normal, and heroic, and you do the nether disruptor every day it's up. As a supposed mythic raider you should be aware of this more than anybody, since legendaries are more important to you than everyone else. Perhaps you're lucky enough to already have every legendary for every spec of your main, or maybe you're just lying, i have no idea, but either way you should be less oblivious to this.

[WskyDK]

I for one, and looking forward to the endless threads bitching about he difficulty of LFR.
Avatar's dps check, and KJ's soak check are going to be the new norm.

[Deleted]

People care because a large number of people still run LFR just for the legendary chance/to build back luck protection. You can get a legendary a week if you clear every raid on LFR, normal, and heroic, and you do the nether disruptor every day it's up. As a supposed mythic raider you should be aware of this more than anybody, since legendaries are more important to you than everyone else. Perhaps you're lucky enough to already have every legendary for every spec of your main, or maybe you're just lying, i have no idea, but either way you should be less oblivious to this.

Thats right, I have all 21 legendaries on my mage and missing 1 on my priest for every spec. So what exactly is your point? Again: who the fuck cares about lfr? You do it for legendaries and you care if some people in the raid dont wanna learn? Or you're whining because you clear a wing in 20 minutes instead of 15 if everyone was playing right and not going afk?

As a mythic raider the only problem i have lfr is the end boss, archi guldan and KJ when their wing opened did lead to some wipes the first week, thats it. Who cares anyway, its not that 15 minutes every 5 months are a big deal.

[Deleted]

Also I am not whining I am providing what I and others see as useful feedback. Teaching others I agree I don't have to do but I feel personally a stronger community is good for wow and I personally enjoy helping others to reach their potential or get better.

It is your right to enter lfr and ignore all those who you are carrying but I have the same right to help those without the abuse from you.

Frankly your post is agressive and not helping what is a constructive discussion. No one here is saying the intention of lfr is wrong it just is not working in its current iteration.

[Hctaz]

As a mythic (7/9 atm) raider, I really dont understand the point of such threads. Why the hell you people care about LFR?

LFR is for people that dont give a shit about the mechanics and dont wanna learn the game and just wanna say they killed the bosses: LET EM HAVE IT.
If you think its too easy there is normal, hc and even mythic to keep you challenged. Why the fuck you whine about LFR is really out of my mind.

Every time I do LFR I usually do, alone, 20% of the total dmg... i dont give a shit if people are afk or watching tv series, I just do it for runes and AP.

Do the same and mind your own fucking business, for once, and you'll live 100 years.

PS This AINT school, you dont have to teach anybody anything. If people want to learn, they have million ways to do it on their own, and if they dont wanna learn, dont give a shit, its their right to do so. God how much i hate people that FEEL the need they need to tell others what to do, mind your own fucking business.

The reason people talk about this stuff is because Blizzard does.

They've recently stated that they no longer want LFR to be a Tourist Mode. They want to turn it into a mode with few mechanics that are extremely important to follow instead of the mode with almost all the same mechanics but none of them matter at all and can all be healed through and ignored.

So OP is saying that it's too late to save LFR and they really should just give up on their new design philosophy of trying to use it as a mode to teach players the basics of how to do mechanics.

What you're saying in your post actually completely supports OP. It's not supposed to be a mode that teaches people things. It has always been a mode that allows players to AFK and not give a shit. They're claiming they want to turn it into a mode that is basically supposed to force people to do mechanics now, albeit a very small number of them. OP is saying that's stupid and they really should just make something new because the people who actually run LFR are not going to want this shit.

I know I personally don't want to live in a world where LFR players have to soak Armageddon rain or they wipe. Fuck that noise. I don't want AFK people getting in the way of Maiden colors but Blizzard is trying to make LFR hard for people who run LFR as their only source of content by making mechanics matter.

[WskyDK]

You say it like eaching people is overly difficult. LFR KJ has two mechanics to worry about (three if you're a tank)

/rw -soak swirls until they disappear-stack and kill adds asap-use personals and lock rocks in darkness-win-

[Chickat]

Next year, WoW will have had lfr longer than it didnt.

[Hctaz]

Next year, WoW will have had lfr longer than it didnt.

This is my favorite argument. I know people who have had cancer longer than that hadn't had it. I don't hear them saying "Well this is just a part of me now." No fuck that, they say "Well shit if I could fucking get rid of it then I would." Difference is that it's a lot easier to cut out LFR than it is to cut out cancer regardless of the fact that they're one in the same.

[Deleted]

The reason people talk about this stuff is because Blizzard does.

They've recently stated that they no longer want LFR to be a Tourist Mode. They want to turn it into a mode with few mechanics that are extremely important to follow instead of the mode with almost all the same mechanics but none of them matter at all and can all be healed through and ignored.

So OP is saying that it's too late to save LFR and they really should just give up on their new design philosophy of trying to use it as a mode to teach players the basics of how to do mechanics.

What you're saying in your post actually completely supports OP. It's not supposed to be a mode that teaches people things. It has always been a mode that allows players to AFK and not give a shit. They're claiming they want to turn it into a mode that is basically supposed to force people to do mechanics now, albeit a very small number of them. OP is saying that's stupid and they really should just make something new because the people who actually run LFR are not going to want this shit.

I know I personally don't want to live in a world where LFR players have to soak Armageddon rain or they wipe. Fuck that noise. I don't want AFK people getting in the way of Maiden colors but Blizzard is trying to make LFR hard for people who run LFR as their only source of content by making mechanics matter.

What surprises me is how people still listen to what blizzard says... after 13 years you should know they so often just lie thru their teeth with pathetic bullshit. Remember the first time they said it wont happen again that you'll have the last raid of an expansion last 12 months? I forgot when was that, WOLK? Well guess what, they did it again in pandaria, with 13 months SOO. They said it wouldnt happen again, and guess what? It did happen again in WOD with HFC, 14 months!

Best thing about blizzard is when they say "our devs learned from this mistake bla bla"... I mean, the game has pretty much been the same for 13 years, and they still have to learn the same things over and over? They tune stuff wrong and then "fix" it by saying "hey guys we didnt expect some people would farm it non stop". How pathetic, they know some people do that since day1 of WOW.

Best way to deal with blizzard is not to listen to them. They tried to make LFR harder and had to change it because some people just dont wanna learn, let those be.

[oldgeezer]

Sometimes it is painless but many times it is a horrible mess and so long as it can be cleared with a small portion of the group trying people will not learn those encounters, will not learn basic mechanics and will not help with any development of new players into content beyond.

I think you're mistaken in assuming that LFR is a stepping stone for other forms of raiding. Also, why do people need to learn the encounters if the content is cleared so easily? ToS LFR seems very undertuned (with the possible exception of KJ). I don't have a problem with this; quick and easy LFR is good LFR.

[Taeldorian]

I agree. The death of LFR as a reasonable challenge was the nail in the coffin of me staying on as a super casual. I know loads of folk will say 'pug normal' but this takes time I don't have.

I assume Blizz has metrics that tell them the easier LFR gets the more people play - I'm just not sure who. I can only think it's the under 12 crowd.

You're quitting because LFR is too hard? Is that a joke?

LFR is still insanely easy. 1 shot avatar repeatedly. KJ is a little bit harder. I'm so sorry that you can't que and afk and still get rewards.

I don't believe for a second you don't have 2 hours throughout the 7 days of the week to run normal. I work full time 6 days a week and take care of family and still manage to raid heroic/mythic 2 days a week. Maybe you're time management is really bad or maybe you just don't want to dedicate some time to raiding. Both are fine but quitting because LFR became a little bit harder is insane.

If you want your LFR run to be better maybe coordinate with the group? Raid lead and try to help the group. Is that too much for you? No time for that? Unfortunate. I don't feel bad that you're quitting because you can't watch Netflix and get loot anymore, I feel bad because the lack of effort that you put into the game is so low I'm surprised you were ever on the game.

Not only that, but clearing all of LFR takes longer than getting into a pug and clearing normal for me every single time. No idea what you're deal is but okay mate.

TLDR: There's a lot of steps you can take to make you're experience better in LFR as it becomes harder. Lead the group, help the group. Rather than afking in LFR as a "super casual" maybe you can explain some mechanics and help people learn. If you don't want to do any of that then hey, it's your call. Kick the people who afk. LFR is still very easy even as a "reasonable challenge" so throwing a fit over having to do 1 or 2 mechanics is insane to me.

[Decyde]

It's pretty bad anymore. You have people who really have no business being in lfr from either afking, not knowing how to play their classes or just being retarded.

Blizzard likes to point out that it allows gamers to raid who would otherwise not be able to do the content and there's a reason why they dont.

At this point they should just let these people watch a 30 minutes video of the fights and then click a button to roll for a piece of loot. There's no difference at all between that and lfr now.

[WskyDK]

This is my favorite argument. I know people who have had cancer longer than that hadn't had it. I don't hear them saying "Well this is just a part of me now." No fuck that, they say "Well shit if I could fucking get rid of it then I would." Difference is that it's a lot easier to cut out LFR than it is to cut out cancer regardless of the fact that they're one in the same.

Don't let hyperbole get in the way of a bad argument

- - - Updated - - -

It's pretty bad anymore. You have people who really have no business being in lfr from either afking, not knowing how to play their classes or just being retarded.

Blizzard likes to point out that it allows gamers to raid who would otherwise not be able to do the content and there's a reason why they dont.

At this point they should just let these people watch a 30 minutes video of the fights and then click a button to roll for a piece of loot. There's no difference at all between that and lfr now.

Which is why they're looking to change it...