druid tanks bad?

[Deleted]

Monk maybe because they're just great. Warrior? Nah.

Monk because they can basically dodge every other attack
Warrior because block/crit block shreds any physical (sometimes magical melee attacks) to nothingness

I guess that's why the world first race was won with double druid on what's arguably one of the most bursty physical boss in the game.

As I said earlier: poorly designed encounter where it's required to have roar

I think you mean Stampeding Roar and that's kind of a silly reason to switch your tanks around IMO.

Same exact silly reason they used Blook DKs on Mistress before nerf: poorly designed encounter

Which you shouldn't. No one is saying "Prot Warriors are bad", they're just ~<5% weaker than Guardian for Physical attacks. Every tank is pretty damn close together, but even a ~5% difference is a huge difference in the world first race.

Maybe 5% overall strenght, but on damage taken, Warriors sits as the king with least damage taken intake. And yes laugh as much as you desire, but I still take half the damage Bear takes

That said, Warrior destroys Guardian on fights with consistent magical damage. Frenzied Regeneration is amazing against burst hits but does very little on consistent damage fights, while Ignore Pain eats consistent shit up for breakfast.

I would say id more or less equal on magic damage. In my experience Ignore Pain tends to negate any magic damage in one second and in another 3 seconds you drop very low

Ironfur putting you at 88%+ Physical Reduction alongside a 10M+ HP pool says hi. Burst hits that get through get healed with one of my three FR charges.

Untill you hit 85% armor cap. Also as I said earlier normal block is 40% DR, Crit block is 80% DR and with 52% chance to crit block puts me at 60% DR
Also not forget I have 56% DR unbuff from armor alone.

In not so distant past, I did math and came to conclusion that base armor + crit block reduces the damage taken by 92.4 % And that's excluding aby additional buffs/ Ignore Pain

No, Guardian is the best at physical reduction because it's also the worst at magical reduction.

It's still good against Magic Damage thanks to passive % reductions like Adaptive Fur or Rend and Tear. Also Bear mastery actually do something against magical damage

[exochaft]

Can't we just agree that any tank in the hands of a good player will be fine? World firsts usually revolve around niches of a tank class can trivialize important mechanics versus their overall package, hence why you don't always see the same tank class for every different boss kill in the world first race due to mechanical differences of each boss. Beyond world firsts where we can consider the tanks undergeared for the content, at this point any decently geared tank can do the content.

Back to the main topic, the bear tank in question is not a good bear tank player, hence all the issues where there shouldn't be any. As I said in my previous post before we even had logs to see, almost all bear tank problems I've seen in pugs boil down to poor ability rotation (aka, spamming Swipe way too much) and little/no active mitigation use. If the player doesn't accept the help that would fix their problems, then you need to start finding a replacement.

[vsb]

Many tanks don't realize that their taunt increases their threat by 300% for 3 seconds, so they must use 3 hard hitting abilities to get good aggro. They can have problems with aggro. If tank understands that, it's just unrealistic to lose agro. Every tank does the same DPS, 500-600k. No matter how many crits you have in the row, it won't be enough. So either they don't properly use their taunt buff, or they just don't even try to do DPS. I don't like tanks who's trying to get more DPS, tanks are about survival, not about DPS, but it doesn't mean that tank should be just plain bad.

Unfortunately in those cases second tank must be smart one and stop his DPS. It's better than wipe.

[Marrilaife]

I think you mean Stampeding Roar and that's kind of a silly reason to switch your tanks around IMO.

Silly, but true in the same manner as switching half of your melee to rogues, or priests / dks racechanging to goblin to cheese the knockback. If out of 6 tanks 4 survive just fine but 1 brings extra utility that is extremely valuable... what do you bring? It's similar story as it was in HFC with Xul / Mannoroth, bring extra DKs for mass grips even if that was the only reason to slot them over another class. Or remember Blackhand and bring a boomkin for balconies?

What alternative exists to bears for movement buff? Ferals? But the melee roster is tight with all the soak rogues. Shamans with windwalk totem? Not sure why but shamans in any guild I was always QQed they have to spec for it so I guess the tradeoff is non negligible and also dps shamans aren't great for that fight so you have 1 resto and that's it. Any other movement buffs are either single target (priest feathers, monk's tiger lust) or personal only.

Swapping a tank is the least of a sacrifice since the spec is not weak by any means (having to bring let's say dh tank for something could pose a bigger issue) and most tanks in top guilds will have a bear alt since it was one of the best classes in TOV and NH.

Also if you would watch Sco's video commentary, druids have extra perks for themselves on this fight like skull bash used as a mini charge can prevent a knockback on you, also rage of the sleeper makes you immune to cc negating some of the issues.

It's just bears are so good on this fight there's no reason not to bring them and all the reasons to bring them. Same thing that existed with shadow priests / MM hunters on Helya progression.

[huth]

also rage of the sleeper makes you immune to cc negating some of the issues.

Not just CC, knockbacks too. A raging bear is pretty much impossible to stop or move against his will.

[Thulmir]

I think you mean Stampeding Roar and that's kind of a silly reason to switch your tanks around IMO.

Go watch the FinalBossTV interview with Method on the world 1st KJ kill. Sco legit says that's the only reason they ran double bear tank. A roar for every soak isn't silly, it's ridiculously powerful.

Prot warriors are essentially where they were before NH from a play style perspective in a raid that is mostly physical damage with another ~40-50 ilvls of gear(late EN to now). They are more than viable right now.

I swapped to Guardian for NH (5/7M EN on my warrior), and I have enjoyed the last 2 raid tiers on my druid (5/10M and pushing to 4/9M this week). But I just dusted off my prot warrior last night, and it felt great. I'm not going to swap mains again, but I'm
for sure going to be playing more prot warrior going forward. I might even start running him instead of my prot paladin on our alt raid nights going forward. Very fun, very viable.

[Joshtradomus]

It sounds like they maybe were just being lazy / afk'ing half the fight. While threat can still be taken (even though it is much harder than it used to be), it shouldnt really happen these days if the other tank is doing the right rotation.

[Purpleisbetter]

Bad enough to pretty much nullify physical damage once you got your third IF stack up.

In KJ, from a healing perspective, Bear is just mind boggling boring to heal. A meatball harder then steel.

Wars are quite cool too, altho they might get a spike if the war got some bad rng with blocks.

At the end, as long as they're not Palas or DHs, i'm very fine.

[Deleted]

I dont see anything wrong with druid tank, its pretty good, even a solid dps when geared well.

[Tygerman]

the druid was actually an old guild mate ><

i say old because i was going to offer to help him out and he blew up at me and told me to F OFF and a bunch of other stuff then he kicked me from the guild.

It's interesting you say this, I recently ran a pug M+ with a DH tank that told me the same exact thing when trying to tell him how to tank the last boss in Nelth's Lair since he hadn't done it before. I wonder if it's the same person, but on a different character.

Either way, it's amazing how people "try" to get better, but show no interesting in learning from others.

[Duckypoo]

It's interesting you say this, I recently ran a pug M+ with a DH tank that told me the same exact thing when trying to tell him how to tank the last boss in Nelth's Lair since he hadn't done it before. I wonder if it's the same person, but on a different character.

Either way, it's amazing how people "try" to get better, but show no interesting in learning from others.

The problem is with people trolling others. Back in in classic or BC I'd totally have taken the advice of others without second thought. We're in a new gaming generation now and I honestly question anything people say.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

They are so bad.. I mean.. who minus like almost everyone would want one.

[Deleted]

They are pretty cool imo