DK is lacking raid utility, bring back AMZ to PVE !

[omegalulz]

And it has been even more evident with the class stacking going on during ToS progress that some classes just bring much more than others, not only DPS-wise but most importantly on the utility side.

Why is it like that ? One thing I don't understand is why Warriors and Rogues are always the N°1 melee in this game no matter the tier and other melee specs are completely optionnal, left behind.

One easy fix for DKs would be to bring back AMZ in PVE, it is such a nice spell bringing a very good utility CD to the raid. Warriors have Commanding Shout, on top of doing more damage, on top of having 2x more mobility, so why the fuck not ?

[Lacruiser]

What makes rogues n1? They lost smokebomb as well, and the only thing they bring is a cloak of shadows that is just slightly better than AMS

[Deleted]

I'll stick with unholy having extremely competitive dps over having utility.

[Deleted]

What makes rogues n1? They lost smokebomb as well, and the only thing they bring is a cloak of shadows that is just slightly better than AMS

Cloak is 100000000000 times better than ams. They also have feint, cheat death, really good dmg the list goes on. there is a reason why top guilds used like 4 rogues on world first KJ and Avatar.
They should give dks amz, gorefiends grasp and at least like 15% more speed.

[Nnyco]

What makes rogues n1? They lost smokebomb as well, and the only thing they bring is a cloak of shadows that is just slightly better than AMS

you cant compare immunity vs a 30% shield really

[omegalulz]

I'll stick with unholy having extremely competitive dps over having utility.

I am also happy with the state of our DPS, but honestly dude it's really not as good as arms on the most important fights (Avatar/KJ).

So yeah, it's not like we have the best DPS in the game to compensate the lack of utility, we are just fine.

[Lacruiser]

you cant compare immunity vs a 30% shield really

Of course I can, AMS makes up for the "not being an immunity" aspect by being on a shorter cooldown. For KJ for example you soak armageddon without getting debuffs, as you can do on a plethora of other bosses as well. If you are frost, you can even dispel undispellable debuffs from yourself. Could you dispel spore debuffs with cloak on Botanist as rogue? Dk's could at least, which made us a ton better than rogues for soaking on that fight as well for example.

Both defensive abilities gives the same utility, with rogues being a bit better for most cases but having a longer cd instead. In my book that makes them roughly equal

[Deleted]

Of course I can, AMS makes up for the "not being an immunity" aspect by being on a shorter cooldown. For KJ for example you soak armageddon without getting debuffs, as you can do on a plethora of other bosses as well. If you are frost, you can even dispel undispellable debuffs from yourself. Could you dispel spore debuffs with cloak on Botanist as rogue? Dk's could at least, which made us a ton better than rogues for soaking on that fight as well for example.

Both defensive abilities gives the same utility, with rogues being a bit better for most cases but having a longer cd instead. In my book that makes them roughly equal

Cloak removes every dot too, it makes you literally immune to magic dmg and you can soak everything without worrying about dying. i dont understand how you can even compare them, cloak is considered best defensive cd in the game.

[omegalulz]

@Lacruiser



Tell me where is the DK lul

[Deleted]

@Lacruiser



Tell me where is the DK lul

That was the first kill of one guild.

Unholy is very good atm.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#boss=2051

4 rogues, 3 DKs, 2 arms warrior, 1 dh - and 0 ww, enhancers, ferals...

DKs are also best melee dps atm (highest boss dmg, strong AOE). Sub is close on boss dmg, but much weaker at aoe.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#difficulty=4

There is currently no reason to complain as unholy DK. Rogues are currently kings of def cds, but unholy is 2nd best, close to sub.

Others like enhancers, ferals have absolutely NOTHING. They cant soak at all, not even armageddon. They take much more damage because they lack defensives. E.g. no passive 20% aoe damage reduction...

[omegalulz]

That was the first kill of one guild.

Unholy is very good atm.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#boss=2051

4 rogues, 3 DKs, 2 arms warrior, 1 dh - and 0 ww, enhancers, ferals...

DKs are also best melee dps atm (highest boss dmg, strong AOE). Sub is close on boss dmg, but much weaker at aoe.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#difficulty=4

There is currently no reason to complain as unholy DK. Rogues are currently kings of def cds, but unholy is 2nd best, close to sub.

Others like enhancers, ferals have absolutely NOTHING. They cant soak at all, not even armageddon. They take much more damage because they lack defensives. E.g. no passive 20% aoe damage reduction...

Again, I didn't complained about our DPS, I already said it: we are fine. I just think we are lacking some raid utility, and this is what is very important during progress.

Obviously as the time go on, we will see more diverses comps because guilds will be less reliant on theses utility CDs, they become more confortable with the fight and have more gear so it's less a big deal. We can not compare a progress comp with a farming comp.

Idk I think AMZ would be widely enough to solve this "issue" imho. And I speak for Dks because that's what I play, but yeah some other specs/classes definetely have the same issue

[Deleted]

dont worry.. they will bring it back... they are at a point where they have to remove stuff to bring it back later to have "new stuff" to present to the players.

[ChronoSul]

Again, I didn't complained about our DPS, I already said it: we are fine. I just think we are lacking some raid utility, and this is what is very important during progress.

Obviously as the time go on, we will see more diverses comps because guilds will be less reliant on theses utility CDs, they become more confortable with the fight and have more gear so it's less a big deal. We can not compare a progress comp with a farming comp.

Idk I think AMZ would be widely enough to solve this "issue" imho. And I speak for Dks because that's what I play, but yeah some other specs/classes definetely have the same issue

In theory another way to solve this issue could be by giving gorefiend's grasp back to the 2 dps specs since it would be unique across dps specs making both dps specs have there own role to play

[Casterbridge]

Personally I would love to have some utility. I find it makes raids a bit more interesting to have other jobs than to always tunnel the boss.

Whether it be grasp, AMZ, or something new.

[Deleted]

I'd settle for getting more rp from soaking...

[bungie]

Nah, give us back mass grip as DPS, that would probably be enough.

[Razion]

DPS DKs have Dark Succor to kind of replace Feint, but Frost/Unholy no longer have Purgatory to replace Cheat Death.
Blood DKs still have Gorefiend's Grasp. I think if Rogues got Smoke Bomb I'd be happy having AMZ again.

[Deleted]

In theory another way to solve this issue could be by giving gorefiend's grasp back to the 2 dps specs since it would be unique across dps specs making both dps specs have there own role to play

And make them mandatory for many things again. And a new race would start. Then enhancers would need sonething, then monks, oh give smoke bomb to rogues, ah and now dhs need something...

Deathgrip on its own is already utility. Mass Grip can be such a gamechanger. In HFC you wanted 2 or 3 DKs for mass grip alone...

[Wizzi01]

Is be happy if they brought presences back with death's advance and gorefiend's grasp for every spec.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Sadly, I'd expect less utility coming if anything. They really are having problems keeping these sort of things out of raids.