So, can we call Legion a bust for anyone who played Ret, and what's in it for 8.0?

[Jester Joe]

What's the point of half-cd aw if you still can't catch a thing?

"ohnozzz, Returdin unleashed his wings, wut du! Guess I'll just kite him as usual"

Doesn't change PvP, but helps PvE at least.

And to be fair, mobility changes would be a whole other beast of a problem.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Doesn't change PvP, but helps PvE at least.

And to be fair, mobility changes would be a whole other beast of a problem.

Because it's so fething difficult to tune dragonslaying damage. Because there is no other way around to fix ret dps besides tinkering with aw. Not like they could up the coefficients, or, you know, fix their shit to begin with. Or give birth to GBoK.

And to be fair, mobility is not a problem.
Given: ret lacks mobility.
Solution: provide ret with meaningful, reliable tools to at least be able to catch up.
Outcome: ret is now able to connect, and actually do what an offensive spec is supposed to fething do.
Drawbacks: none. Because ret still fething lacks any offensive potential besides a pointy stick in hands.
Wow. That's rocket science alright.
Guess I'm just too smart or not seeing the GREAT MYSTERIOUS underlying TOTALLY SEWIOUS reason ret can't have proper tools or top-tier viability.

[Jester Joe]

Because it's so fething difficult to tune dragonslaying damage. Because there is no other way around to fix ret dps besides tinkering with aw. Not like they could up the coefficients, or, you know, fix their shit to begin with. Or give birth to GBoK.

And to be fair, mobility is not a problem.
Given: ret lacks mobility.
Solution: provide ret with meaningful, reliable tools to at least be able to catch up.
Outcome: ret is now able to connect, and actually do what an offensive spec is supposed to fething do.
Drawbacks: none. Because ret still fething lacks any offensive potential besides a pointy stick in hands.
Wow. That's rocket science alright.
Guess I'm just too smart or not seeing the GREAT MYSTERIOUS underlying TOTALLY SEWIOUS reason ret can't have proper tools or top-tier viability.

If you're getting kited nonstop, how would you say mobility is not a problem?

And who said that tinkering with AW was the only way? That's your assumption. Nowhere did my response say that, it was just that I'd rather not become a caster that can be interrupted just for the sake of more sustained/focused burst.

[Morally Grey Storm]

If you're getting kited nonstop, how would you say mobility is not a problem?

And who said that tinkering with AW was the only way? That's your assumption. Nowhere did my response say that, it was just that I'd rather not become a caster that can be interrupted just for the sake of more sustained/focused burst.

Did you not read my incredibly long winded explanation on how mobility is not a problem?

You did. You said "lowering the burst while retaining it", and provided the half-cd AW example. You don't lower ret burst any other way besides tinkering with AW, for AW IS ret burst. And nerfing anything besides aw nerfs ret sustained. Rocket science, I'm telling you. Very difficultestiestest. Greater difficulty.

[Jester Joe]

Did you not read my incredibly long winded explanation on how mobility is not a problem?

You did. You said "lowering the burst while retaining it", and provided the half-cd AW example. You don't lower ret burst any other way besides tinkering with AW, for AW IS ret burst. And nerfing anything besides aw nerfs ret sustained. Rocket science, I'm telling you. Very difficultestiestest. Greater difficulty.

Except none of that covered how we don't have any tools for that now?
I can't tell whether you're being satirical on that point or talking about a future where we could have such tool.

And that was in regards to our burst itself, not our pure number output. You're taking that out of the context and going "you saying this means you want this other thing that you didn't say!". That's your assumption, since my post was yet again, just in regards to the aspect of "on demand burst".

[Morally Grey Storm]

Except none of that covered how we don't have any tools for that now?
I can't tell whether you're being satirical on that point or talking about a future where we could have such tool.

And that was in regards to our burst itself, not our pure number output. You're taking that out of the context and going "you saying this means you want this other thing that you didn't say!". That's your assumption, since my post was yet again, just in regards to the aspect of "on demand burst".

I have a crutch. Can I walk like a normal person?
I have derpsteed. Can I catch up like a normal melee spec?
Now can you tell?

>talks about more consistent damage
>wants to lower burst while retaining it, through a nerf
> I am assuming

[Jester Joe]

I have a crutch. Can I walk like a normal person?
I have derpsteed. Can I catch up like a normal melee spec?
Now can you tell?

>talks about more consistent damage
>wants to lower burst while retaining it, through a nerf
> I am assuming

You are assuming. Yet again, my response was in regards to an entire rework of the spec that I wouldn't enjoy, and I pointed out one far simpler way to give controlled burst.

If you want to try to strawman that, you can. But you're making up things that I've never said, and there's no point of continuing this because literally anyone else can read and see I never said "nerf burst and don't do anything else!!!".

[Morally Grey Storm]

You are assuming. Yet again, my response was in regards to an entire rework of the spec that I wouldn't enjoy, and I pointed out one far simpler way to give controlled burst.

If you want to try to strawman that, you can. But you're making up things that I've never said, and there's no point of continuing this because literally anyone else can read and see I never said "nerf burst and don't do anything else!!!".

Oh it's on like Donkey Kong.

You're assuming I would ever strawman.

Here's to hoping my longwinded incredibly complicated explanation on how mobility is not an issue dud get through to you at this point.

- - - Updated - - -

How do I caustic

[Dald]

I swapped to Warrior for Arms/Prot over Paladin. Arms is less cooldown reliant all the while having a good cooldown on a lower cd. Same way for Fury.

[Hyral]

Need Selfless Healer back, Emancipate, Hand of Sacrifice, Empowered Seals, Word of Glory, Hammer of Wrath... I feel if everything was reverted to WoD we'd be in a much better position.

[Wrecktangle]

Posting again because I love my idea....

Holy Power redesigned akin to Shadow Priest's Insanity. Your paladin's special attacks generate Holy Power, which at 100 Holy Power, makes the ability Crusade available. Each point of Holy Power increases holy damage done by a percentage.

Blade of Justice generates 10 HP.

Crusader Strike generates 5 HP.

Judgment remains unchanged, increases damage taken from TV/DS.

Templar's Verdict/Divine Storm remains a hard hitting Holy attack on an 8 second cooldown. Blade of Wrath talent has a chance for BoJ to instantly reset the cooldown on Templar's Verdict/Divine Storm.

Upon reaching 100 Holy Power and activating Crusade the paladin deals increased Holy damage until cancelled and allows the Paladin to cast Holy Wrath, a channeled ability that deals heavy Holy damage to a main target and chains to nearby targets, reducing in damage for each additional mob at the cost of 10 Holy Power per second.



The suggested Playstyle is to build up Holy Power and deal increased damage with Crusade being used to burst and focus priority adds. In some situations, it would be more beneficial to maintain high amounts of Holy Power and save Crusade for important parts of the encounters. Once Crusade is active, the paladin will attempt to keep their Holy Power bar filled for as long as possible.

TL;DR Holy Power/Crusade interact and serve as a mega burst at the cost of having to re-stack our more consistent damage. This would make Paladin's experts at focusing damage on priority adds and/or "nuke" phases.

Your idea or mine...?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...bilities-etc-)

[AshenWings]

The thing I find ironic is, playing as Holy, the judgement debuff is less awful, due to not having to manage Holy Power. You judge, holy shock, and crusader's strike twice. Rinse repeat. It's less awful than ret at least.
I truly do feel like the loss of seals and auras has tarnished the class identity. I feel like I can do significantly more off healing as an Enhance shaman. Heck, even my DK has pretty much the same self heals with Death Strike as I do with Justicar's Vengance. Selfless healer helped this a great deal, as did the old Word of Glory.

[Whatever Dude]

A couple questions for you guys.

1.) Do you like the Holy Power system for Rets?

2.) If not, what kind of replacement system would you like to see?

[Morally Grey Storm]

1. No.
2. None.

[Thundering]

gife seals back that was the times!

[Sigxy]

A couple questions for you guys.

1.) Do you like the Holy Power system for Rets?

2.) If not, what kind of replacement system would you like to see?

1: No.
2: Just make mana more important. And then if we are about to run low on it, seal / judgement-effect to give mana.

[Whatever Dude]

To be honest I kinda like the holy power system, it just feels lackluster to me because mana is so irrelevant right now. Rets having to actively manage both Holy Power and Mana at the same time could be cool.

[Morally Grey Storm]

That would require them to, you know, apply actual effort.

[Vintersol]

Holy Power is bs in its current form. It should act like a buff mechanic instead of being a cheap combo system. We already have mana, so this should be the default resource.

[Morally Grey Storm]

All the while mana is a rudiment.
Does it affect our dps? No.
Do we care for it, at all? No.
All it does currently is limiting our however pitiful it is, our offhealing capabilities.
Yey?