why crucible is stupid

[MrMatticus]

it will be a pain in the ass for lootcouncil to evaluate things

Well that's your first problem. You should be using personal and not master. Guilds using ML in this day and age are doing it VERY wrong.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

A "bad" relic cannot become "BiS". Or how are you defining a relic to be "bad"? A Bad relic is one that has a non-output trait. The crucible doesn't fix the initial trait, so it can never become a BiS.

My main is VDH. All our traits are meh except for Fiery Demise. A relic that did not have FD that gains it goes from "bad" to "bis"

[Khallid]

My main is VDH. All our traits are meh except for Fiery Demise. A relic that did not have FD that gains it goes from "bad" to "bis"

OK then, that's quite nice for you. That is not the case for a lot of specs. I have 2 traits that are best, 2 more that are decent and the rest are trash. So any relic I roll on has to have two good traits and a good Light/Dark effect to be a BiS, also in the appropriate column to reach the second trait. For me, a bad relic can only improve to so-so status. However, a good relic can still be ruined. Two of my current relics got lousy RNG in the Crucible. My top relic was a 935 with the best trait that has now become crap.

[Ponji]

Suzy Q?
Wtf is a suzy q.
Oh right you run out of arguments.
Who cares if there are other things to whine about when we are here to discuss the feature of the game and i can whine all i want and not be satisfied with it.
You don't like it? Well tuff luck ma man get off your high horse and go tend to your garden.

Awfully angsty for a crybaby. What are you, 12? It seems like you're the one who's run out of arguments champ. You just posted a 5 line reply, and only 1 of those lines was even remotely relevant to the discussion.

You should really go grab a kleenex for all those tears. All that salt on your face must sting. Sorry for your bad day kiddo.
Infracted

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A "bad" relic cannot become "BiS". Or how are you defining a relic to be "bad"? A Bad relic is one that has a non-output trait. The crucible doesn't fix the initial trait, so it can never become a BiS.

It doesn't fix the initial trait, but it provides a way to supplement the utility trait with a DPS trait once you've reached a high enough artifact level. For example, I have a cauterizing blink relic that can option into +1s Combustion or +% damage on Pyroblast. My +% Pyroblast relic only options into utility traits.

[daiceman]

Your example will literally never happen though. You won't ever be stuck with the worst 2nd tier trait because you always have 2 choices, Light or Shadow. The worst scenario is if you get the worst Light trait to choose from and the worst shadow trait to choose from in the same relic and that will only happen 3% of the time. What also factors in is what 3rd tier trait you get and that also leaves you with 2 choices.

What will happen most of the time is that when you get a new relic the tier 2 and tier 3 traits will give you slightly higher than the average DPS so in your example it would roughly mean 50k DPS upgrade on average for tier 2.

It can absolutely happen. 2 light traits provide 0 DPS, so the lowest DPS option on Shadow side is the minimum. So there is a 1/3 chance that you have a 0% DPS choice on light.

[Ebalina]

Awfully angsty for a crybaby. What are you, 12? It seems like you're the one who's run out of arguments champ. You just posted a 5 line reply, and only 1 of those lines was even remotely relevant to the discussion.

You should really go grab a kleenex for all those tears. All that salt on your face must sting. Sorry for your bad day kiddo.

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It doesn't fix the initial trait, but it provides a way to supplement the utility trait with a DPS trait once you've reached a high enough artifact level. For example, I have a cauterizing blink relic that can option into +1s Combustion or +% damage on Pyroblast. My +% Pyroblast relic only options into utility traits.

Huur duur i think i'm smarted then every one huur duur comment.

Get a grip.
I'll whine all i want if you got a problem take it with the president or just shut the fuck up already.
Infracted

[TriHard]

The crucible is stupid because you have to go to argus to use it, that's it. Same with the artifact system, that should all be baked into the talent tree instead of something you have to go back to the garrison to use.

[cparle87]

This got me dead lmao so true

Yeah. Get good relics you would've used anyway, and get a bonus on top of them. That's what the system was meant to be. All this rage about turning bad relics into good ones and getting BiS is just unneeded frustration people put themselves through.

[chronia]

OK then, that's quite nice for you. That is not the case for a lot of specs. I have 2 traits that are best, 2 more that are decent and the rest are trash. So any relic I roll on has to have two good traits and a good Light/Dark effect to be a BiS, also in the appropriate column to reach the second trait. For me, a bad relic can only improve to so-so status. However, a good relic can still be ruined. Two of my current relics got lousy RNG in the Crucible. My top relic was a 935 with the best trait that has now become crap.

Wondering how it becomes crap though, i mean yesterday the relic was a good relic for you, your best even, now its still a good relic that has become better for "free", sure you could have been more lucky today, or the next relic you loot might blow this one out of the water. But its not like from yesterday to today the relic got useless it just didn't become what you might have wished it would.

[Khallid]

Wondering how it becomes crap though, i mean yesterday the relic was a good relic for you, your best even, now its still a good relic that has become better for "free", sure you could have been more lucky today, or the next relic you loot might blow this one out of the water. But its not like from yesterday to today the relic got useless it just didn't become what you might have wished it would.

Well the light/shadow effect is slightly stronger than my traits, and the third row had no output traits. So it went from having the best trait to having 1/3. It's not immediately crap because of course my artifact weapon is not level 72 yet, but a perfectly rolled relic would be worth about 15 weapon ilvls more, or 45 relic item levels. So my 935 with 1/3 crucible traits correct is only about as good as a 890 relic with 3/3 correct traits.

[yeto]

My best reliq pre NLC is now my worst reliq, but its still better then it was last week, so i do more dmg, i like it. and hey i can just farm a few more of the same reliq and it might even get better it dosent even have to titan forged to be better !

[Deleted]

Well that's your first problem. You should be using personal and not master. Guilds using ML in this day and age are doing it VERY wrong.

Why? I thought ML was preferred as you're able to give the loot to people who need it. With personal, you need people to have a high enough ilvl to be able to trade high WF/TF stuff to others.

(serious question, interested to hear other thoughts around it).

[mstg]

What sucks the most is now people wont pass you the relics even if they are not the highest level they have

[KaPe]

Why? I thought ML was preferred as you're able to give the loot to people who need it. With personal, you need people to have a high enough ilvl to be able to trade high WF/TF stuff to others.

(serious question, interested to hear other thoughts around it).

At this point, legendaries should make the vast majority of item slots tradeable. The only exception are tier pieces, due to some weird changes they made to that, and relics... which are going to be a mess anyway, regardless of loot method. So once those bonuses are taken care off, personal would offer more loot.

[Hammerfest]

To me, the "fun part" of your artifact progression stops once you've got Concordance.

[GreenJesus]

I was really hoping I could just chill and level alts/specs. However, it turns out I need to spend all my play time on my main spec to get more concordance for NLC.. GG Blizzard.

[Grimlokh]

You'll get shit done, no need to QQ over every single system blizz tries to implement. Even their worst system won't stop you from min-maxing if you are realy butthurt about that. If you have a guild and you're a good player..a couple of bad relics wont matter shit. And if you're gonna pug Antorus, players already have their retarded high-ilvl-means-you're-good system, so they will not care about bad relics as long as they're 950+ for Normal Antorus.

There. Solved that for ya.

You're welcome.

[Spiral Mage]

It's funny that such a simple system, with obvious uses/purpose is generating such confusion ...

[Saybel]

The best light/shadow effect is worth 13 ilvl on weapon for me and the best trait is worth almost 6 ilvl on weapon

RNG swings are too huge. Not fun.

[Seaintothesky]

crucible is fine. stop whine