Is pvp still terrible?

[djcoin]

I remember my Vanilla PVP days, helped a lot of people get GM and HWL. made some good friends. Even though I have no idea where they ended up, I hope they all are doing good.

I really don't miss it, to be honest. Get Raid gear, blow shit up. I do miss the people though

Vanilla was all about gear. I'm talking about pure skill related pvp and none of that boring 1v1 crap, 1v3+ is the way to go.

3 is that perfect number where you're not just ccing the off-target until it's his turn for the chopping block and you have a third dynamic to deal with, of course more is always better if you can handle it.
I've found 2-3 is typically the average I can deal with if my gear is meh. I only rarely manage a 1v5 if my gear isn't good or if it's not the beginning of an expansion.

Like I said my gear was 1 year out of date when I did 1v3-5s all day on timeless, most of the people I killed were in gear a tier or two ahead of me. I did like 4 times less damage then I should have, the difference is I knew how to use finesse and control to win. I mean you should have seen videos of my gameplay, it was insane.
Skill>all.
Unfortunately the WoD pruning removed most of the toolset on all classes and thus greatly decreased the skill cap and capability of all classes and the Legion changes were just completely retarded, they put more effort into making sure the new abilities fit the fantasy roll then they did caring about how it affected gameplay.

[Deleted]

Last time I really enjoyed PvP was in TBC

[Underverse]

Doing some random BG's or brawls are fun as a ret paladin. Play a healer or caster?? Forget it. Completely horrible experience. When I try playing holydin a melee or two just lock onto you, stun stun, interrupt, locked out, dead.

I play a holy priest. Lots of fun, unless your allies are terrible, then you can't do much.

[Lightbull]

Statistically, yes. Mostly because PvP has no reward aside from prestige and rating. World PvP is also kinda dead because PvE gear runs rampant.

Arena and BGs are fine. Stat templates keep instanced PvP alive, but it could use more customization.

[VyersReaver]

Why is everyone so mental about WPvP? It's obtuse, interruptive, and is generally enjoyed only by bad people, who relish in suffering of others. Instanced PvP is great this expansion (well, OK, it IS a bit boring), specifically because of Templates. Those are turned off in WPvP, and some specs simply dominate just because they are not tuned down.

To me it looks like OP actually simply misses the requirement of less skill in ganking (as opposed to what he is trying to show as skillful, 1vX was never about skill, it was always about gear, less gear on ganked party, and overall class balance). Now that his main got dunked, he decides to throw in some shit on the fan, and blame overall PvP situation, which he will undoubtedly find support here in this circle jerk. Pathetic, really.

[subrosian]

Why is everyone so mental about WPvP? It's obtuse, interruptive, and is generally enjoyed only by bad people, who relish in suffering of others. Instanced PvP is great this expansion (well, OK, it IS a bit boring), specifically because of Templates. Those are turned off in WPvP, and some specs simply dominate just because they are not tuned down.

To me it looks like OP actually simply misses the requirement of less skill in ganking (as opposed to what he is trying to show as skillful, 1vX was never about skill, it was always about gear, less gear on ganked party, and overall class balance). Now that his main got dunked, he decides to throw in some shit on the fan, and blame overall PvP situation, which he will undoubtedly find support here in this circle jerk. Pathetic, really.

Because for some people WPVP is a component of their characters, and the world, feeling alive. During Mists, my guild had a server rivalry with the other faction's top guild. It was fun doing WPVP outside of raid instances, or meeting in open fields to fight it out after raids. Otherwise, we never would have interacted with those players or gotten much of an experience of the world.

As stupid as it sounds, looking back at the game after not playing for a few years, I remember random world PVP, quests, time doing dungeons, time leveling alts, etc... as fondly as some of the toughest bosses - maybe more, in part because those experiences were things I chose to do just for fun, they weren't tied to a reward or "progression" - they were purely exercises in the mechanics and skills of the game, the highest type of flow and immersion.

[Thelxi]

Yeah. We most likely have to wait for next expansion for serious change, I doubt they would do much before that other than minor bandaids like disenchanting pvp gear into tokens.

[djcoin]

and is generally enjoyed only by bad people, who relish in suffering of others.

HAHAHA! Damn straight!
The important thing about Wpvp is it is endlessly dynamic. It is the only pvp like this.
There are a million and one reasons, places, and ways to kill people in Wpvp. The most interesting and hilarious forms of pvp are always in the world.

[Deleted]

A long time ago, i really liked WoW pvp. Spent hours every day with it.

Now... im on the field with those who said (even back at that time) that WoW is not meant for pvp. It was only a sideeffect in a pve game, which broke its chains when Blizzard thought they can ride the esport horse. (Arena)

If i want pvp there are plenty of opportunity in shooters, or mobas or sport games or fighting games. WoW is not built for pvp.
It was terrible, its is terrible now, and will continue to be terrible.

[Sparklelord]

-doesn't read thread-
Yes.

[deadman1]

The only reason we are in this position is because "modern" Blizzard had the wheel when they revamped the classes. "Modern" Blizzard employees are clueless.
Essentially meaning WoW is a lost cause at this point.
Is there any other game in which skill scaling is a thing?

You're saying the problem with PvP is the fact that everyone is on the same playing field stats wise? Because that isn't the problem at all.

Not large scale WPvP, but your ability to 1vX and duel was a pretty great show of class mastery depending on the expansion.

Literally never.

[Rafoel]

You kept 1vs5 in world pvp?

Haha dude, it wasn't your skill. Your class was just op. That, or that 5 people were people who were still leveling.

[jontunnel130]

bring back honor, bring back resil/pvp power
the honor grind for gear needs to come back. throw out the random garbage slot machine. remove warforged/titanforged entirely. remove pve gear from pvp. bring back on use trinkets.

Basically it's not just pvp, though pvp itself is quite effed, it's legion as a whole. I srsly can't believe this went live. the artifact power fiasco. the 8000 free legendaries you can get from basically doing nothing. class raping. pvp templates are balls. it's just an out for freshly dinged or for the pve folks that hop in the occasional by for quests. basically nullifying the hours you've spent pvping instead of being like a 1/3 of your potential they come in....aint done shit all season and bam they're at 90% of your potential. ain't right. bring the honor grind back. order at the very least reimplement resilience/pvp power. make tank specs put out 50% less damage in pvp and healing/absorbs are 50% less effective

[Deleted]

PvP overall is pretty terrible and neglected. Also, increasing the number of prestige levels every patch is not real content...

World PvP has never been this broken I think, in all the years of WoW. If you have high end gear with the right legendaries you can literally oneshot people and/or be unkillable yourself.

[Kryptoon]

I think whoever is still hoping for a comeback of the old pvp feeling or at least something enjoyable should look elsewhere, as Blizz will never bring back any good pvp.
What we have now is what they can provide with minimal investment in this, while still making reasonable $$ on people's hope.

I've put below a bit of history, from this us official forum tread (https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...867834?page=25) so you can get real expectations about pvp.

Quote:
When WoD was tanking across the board and it was revealed that pvp participation was way down in WoDs second/third season Holinka took to twitter and asked players why do the play HotS and don't pvp in WoW. A pvper replied to him and told him if he wants answers to aid pvp he should talk to his pvp base to which Holinka basically replied he doesn't care what pvpers think about pvp and wanted outside opinions.

Edit: http://www.wowhead.com/bluetracker?topic=16716231901 (if this doesn't open your eyes I don't know what will)

Why would he do this? He did it because they didn't have community approval on the changes that were already in written in stone as far back as MoP and they needed some sort of justification to bring in the changes they wanted to bring in.

It spawned massive threads on GD for weeks wherein the pve crowd gave them all the impetus they needed to say "this is what the player wants" when they knew damn well its what they wanted. Like any successful con job - you make your mark think it was his idea.
The complete removal of character customization, a big move away from skill defining counterplay and abilities, and everything else thats been lost to cosmetic grinds, RNG casino gearing, jump in no risk no reward kindergarten pvp is A LOT cheaper and easier to maintain than having to balance around every conceivable player choice option with complex tool kits.

That's why it was done($$$$$) - it has nothing to do with players desires especially when planned way in advance.
….
Templates are not in the game for the players - that's marketing jargon (which quite obviously works because players are spitting out the company line word for word 2 years later). Templates are in the game because Blizz is no longer investing big time resources into a dying franchise.
End quote.
So however thinks Holinka had his hands tied by pve development team while he was well intended should read the above, on how he played his pvp base hopes.

[Rascal Bob]

WPvP has never been this bad. For some reason they have a "everything is allowed" policy for everything outside of instanced PvP.

But to be completely honest a lot of the stories the OP has told especially the 1v25 are pretty much statements of how he likes imbalance, which would indicate that he would like killing people because of gear. Anything beyond 1v2-3 and especially beyond that is and has always been about gear or class imbalance.

At the end of MoP a ww monk was so OP that I could kill a healer and dps in just a single FoF, heal for just the same amount of damage as I did and move around the map like a god. I mean it was fun boosting people with no gear or experience to around 1.8k in 2's but it wasn't fair, a feral or a really good rogue and some other classes could do the same. WoD removed the ability to heal that much and gave most classes a single role, some classes have still strong utility through off heals but can't heal their selves back to 100% in a few casts. This was a lot of fun for me personally but it was never skill and shouldn't be mistaken for it, just imbalance between specs and classes which some classes for good reason complained about but it definitely removed the fun factor out of some classes for me.

Timeless isle had pretty much a content drought of a year so there didn't have to be that much of a difference between the gear you had and the gear others had. If you were in pvp gear with resilience and the enemy wasn't then you should have been quite strong. Again this is gear, resilience was pretty much everything because it normalized the damage enemies could do, which is missing in WPvP now and it sucks... Rogue was perfectly viable, maybe not as OP as a warrior with second wind or a monk/feral in duels or 2's but a single dfa could delete pretty much 50% of someones health, it definitely wasn't undertuned.

I do not agree however that a glad title is a joke, if anything it's become harder to get since less people are participating in PvP. Any gladiator title obtained before Cata or MoP is a joke however if you compare it to a glad titles from later on, the skill of the average player was way lower and even looking at the gameplay of pro's from those days is a bit underwhelming if you compare it to maybe cata, MoP and beyond.

MoP was the most fun for me in terms of PvP and WPvP, WoD did remove that fun for some classes for me but some are still a lot of fun to play. Now I play arcane mage which is a lot of fun and still has room for really nice plays with mass inviss and so on, look up sparticle if you want to see someone doing some 1vx's.

What might bother the OP most is the fact that WPvP is dominated by PvE heroes because there is no stat template or resil gear in the game currently for WpVP and most of them aren't complete horseshit at PvP anymore.

Some classes are boring(lol DH) in PvP but some classes still have room for nice plays (rogue, mage specifically.) Saying that the current PvP system requires no skill is a false statement and I could show that by playing some 3v3's. Saying that you don't like the current PvP playstyle is understandable and I somewhat feel the same way.

[Kryptoon]

Yeah, never been so balance .... now the comp with most DH is clear winner. Not to mention the best FC

As for skill cap I agree with OP, since Blizz pruned half of our abilities, and threw few into PvP talents, making the baseline classes very barebones, while having to unlock abilities we've had for many years in pvp talents feels like once we fought with modern warfare we are asked to apply the same tactics with a slingshot.
So here you get me lost how come more skill is needed now.

[Mafic]

World PVP has never been this broken.

A Rogue with the right legendaries and FoK can one shot an entire raid.

Instanced PVP is dying as well as rated PVP.

Rewards have been removed. Gearing through PVP is so bad that you can gear faster chasing around squirrels (not a joke).

Templates makes the pruning of classes worse as most classes and specs are playing with a perma rez sickness.

- - - Updated - - -

Instanced PvP is more balanced now than it's been in a very, very long time. The issue is that think they like PvP don't actually like PvP. It was never about balance to most people, it was about the flavor of the month.

World PvP on the other hand is horrendous.

Instanced PVP isn't balanced. Balancing is so bad when double DH is rank 1 viable.

[docterfreeze]

Literally never.

Rarely. Class, then gear, then skill for world PvP. Unless you think rogues using seal of ravenholdt, then fok from legendary shoulders is skill.

You guys must be new.

[SupBrah]

Great Question! Let's take a look...


Legion Season 3:
74 R1 Spots (42H/32A)
296 Glad Spots (210H/150A)

Now let's take, say WoD S3 (which had low participation and brackets were not split by faction):
242 R1 Spots
1213 Glad Spots

In other words, PVP is not only still terrible, but much, much worse. Just look at the steep, steep decline in competitive PVP.