Has Blizzard ignored PvP in your opinion???

[Louz]

One would say that since we got stat templates, abilities behave differently in instanced PvP and they "have the tech" to adjust anything at any time, we could have had atleast SOME balance.

But no, let's have people dying in a single stun or on the other hand, immortal healers.

Another thing - the TERRIBLE matchmaking in the random battlegrounds. Why yes, let's make the enemy team have 3 healers while yours has none, but you get a prot pally instead, heh.

They were so obsessed with pushing their shitty little arenas as an esport so that everything else is just outdated or messed up beyond redemption.

[MyndZero]

Legion is very PvE favored in my opinion. What did they add to PvP lately? oh yerh WEEKLY BRAWL HYPE.

Every expansion, and including vanilla, is PvE favoured. PVP is lucky if it gets ONE battleground or arena map in an expansion

[Arrashi]

Its clear they assumed that prestige will be big enough motivator for people to ignore, or at least bear through most of problems. And boy they were wrong. Maybe if honor gains were 2-3 times bigger than now. But as it is, pvp is simply not fun for average player, and rewards are too grindy to be real motivation.

[Ishayu]

Someone in another thread said that Blizzard puts all their effort into raids, and ignores other aspects of the game.

Considering just how absurdly bad PvP is, I really have to consider that this might be a possibility.

One thing that I will say Blizzard, is that it would be nice if you could focus more on PvP, and less on Trial of Style, and AH Dance Party!!!

We haven't had a new BG in a LONG time, and balance is SO ABSURDLY BAD!!!

Things are so bad with PvP, that I quit the game over it even!!!

What's the deal YO???

To say that we haven't had a BG in a long time is quite disingenuous. While it's true that no new BG maps have been added to the map pool, we've gotten several new maps with the brawls. TM vs SS, frozen AB are a couple of great examples. We also got no less than 4 new arena maps, if you count revamp as a new map.

The real problem with WoW PvP as it exists today is simply class design. It's just awful. THere's a million reasons why, but I've said it so many times I'm tired of repeating myself.

[TheVaryag]

Someone in another thread said that Blizzard puts all their effort into raids, and ignores other aspects of the game.

Considering just how absurdly bad PvP is, I really have to consider that this might be a possibility.

One thing that I will say Blizzard, is that it would be nice if you could focus more on PvP, and less on Trial of Style, and AH Dance Party!!!

We haven't had a new BG in a LONG time, and balance is SO ABSURDLY BAD!!!

Things are so bad with PvP, that I quit the game over it even!!!

What's the deal YO???

Pretty much yes.

I mean what did we get so far In PvP? And no, giving us more levels of prestige and 200g/artifact power doesn't qualify as something to work to, my work table missions give me 500+ gold and then there's a bonus roll to get a 1000+ gold that's pathetic for PvP to get 200g.

Also not counting the "Warden towers" as that's unbalanced piece of <Insert swear word>, that might as well just be a PvE quest, same goes for the 4 pvp quests per zone that gives you a PvP mount... which you can completely earn by donig PvE things, because logic. Unless there's a tryhard boring person that wants to kill every PvPer he spots, you'll see your "Opposing faction players" just walk past you like "Hey how you doin" as they go do the quest by killing mobs, the PvP part Is entirely optional and just a hassle, so again might as well just be PvE and reward a PvE mount, If you give out mounts as high end pvp rewards and then give the exact same looking mounts to PvE'ers by not doing PvP then why are PvPers working towards this Mount goal If you can do It in PvE? Also why are mounts high end rewards for PvP anyway?

But I digress, the real "Content" added has been a snowy arathi basin, eye of the something that has craaaaazy gravity and other "Brawls" which do nothing but make current Battlegrounds boring. Really the only PvP content for the entirity of Legion -is- the prestige system and that's not even good In the first place.

So yeah, a new BG wouldn't go amiss, or two.

Lastly, It was a big mistake to remove high end pvp gear as the equalizing powerlevel for hardcore PvPers, cause now every casual sod who thinks he can beat hardcore PvPers -can- actually do that, cause of random class balance making him stronger and stat templates. The difference Is that before you had to work towards Conquest Gear, which was 2nd Tier pvp gear and the highest you can get, below that was Honor Gear which really anyone could get but only Conquest gave you the best advantage and the gear you had to pimp out and actually earn.

But now everyone Is "Equal" from the getgo, and that's not PvPing. You EARN better shiz to BE stronger, If you're WEAK you get better GEAR and then you're EQUAL-ish to other pvpers depending on your class skill and balance and team work. Being equal was never fun. Have I ever told you the definition of Competative?

"as good as or better than others of a comparable nature"

Being better Is what we want, and If every casual joe can just go Into a BG and pwn everyone cause he happened to be boosted by friends, paid for It and therefore got all the OP PvE gear which Is the only thing that will make you better In PvP, by getting PvE gear... I thought we were beyond that years ago but apparently must return to It for "Balance" and "Equality" reasons.

[Ishayu]

One would say that since we got stat templates, abilities behave differently in instanced PvP and they "have the tech" to adjust anything at any time, we could have had atleast SOME balance.

But no, let's have people dying in a single stun or on the other hand, immortal healers.

Another thing - the TERRIBLE matchmaking in the random battlegrounds. Why yes, let's make the enemy team have 3 healers while yours has none, but you get a prot pally instead, heh.

They were so obsessed with pushing their shitty little arenas as an esport so that everything else is just outdated or messed up beyond redemption.

You can't balance PvP because of the class design. It doesn't matter what you do with the numbers at this point.

The game is not focused enough on small choices and rotational utilities, and too focused on smooth rotations and massive cooldowns.

Basically, the game has become an exercise in cooldown alignment and cooldown trading. That's the extent of the depth now. Every once in a while you feel like something else in there that works, but unfortunately that leads you to the second problem - the fact that Dampening nerfs every healer over time equally regardless of their prior performance. As a result, they'll both be unable to heal at the same time, and therefore the individual small decisions that could have led to a mana disparity and therefore a win are all ignored.

I think one of the most important things Blizzard can do is to change how Dampening works, so that instead of reducing healing over time, it instead simply reduces MP5 mana regen, and that would solve a good chunk of the issues.

The next thing they need to do is add costs to every freakin' CC in the game. If you use it, you forgo something else. This not only means lower damage during stuns and the like, but it also means that you add some real depth and choice to the combat.

Then you add to that by substantially reducing the power of DPS cooldowns, especially those 2 and 3 minute ones.

Round that out with some retuned spells where you are encouraged to use them circumstantially instead of using it based on procs - take a lot of inspiration from vanilla on this one - and I think you've got some really good PvP on your hands.

[Osmeric]

The real problem with WoW PvP as it exists today is simply class design. It's just awful. THere's a million reasons why, but I've said it so many times I'm tired of repeating myself.

The reward design is just as important, in my opinion.

[Super Kami Dende]

Legion PvP is the most fun I have in PvP since Cata.

[Billy Idol]

They lost the desire on how to improve PvP.

[callipygoustp]

I've always felt Blizzard has paid too much attention to PvP. Trying to balance so many classes against each other.... an impossible task. With the exception of a few "god modes" that existed along the way, Blizzard should have left well enough alone.

[Druitz]

You can't balance PvP because of the class design. It doesn't matter what you do with the numbers at this point.

The game is not focused enough on small choices and rotational utilities, and too focused on smooth rotations and massive cooldowns.

Basically, the game has become an exercise in cooldown alignment and cooldown trading. That's the extent of the depth now. Every once in a while you feel like something else in there that works, but unfortunately that leads you to the second problem - the fact that Dampening nerfs every healer over time equally regardless of their prior performance. As a result, they'll both be unable to heal at the same time, and therefore the individual small decisions that could have led to a mana disparity and therefore a win are all ignored.

I think one of the most important things Blizzard can do is to change how Dampening works, so that instead of reducing healing over time, it instead simply reduces MP5 mana regen, and that would solve a good chunk of the issues.

The next thing they need to do is add costs to every freakin' CC in the game. If you use it, you forgo something else. This not only means lower damage during stuns and the like, but it also means that you add some real depth and choice to the combat.

Then you add to that by substantially reducing the power of DPS cooldowns, especially those 2 and 3 minute ones.

Round that out with some retuned spells where you are encouraged to use them circumstantially instead of using it based on procs - take a lot of inspiration from vanilla on this one - and I think you've got some really good PvP on your hands.

Reducing mana regen will favor rdruids that can go healing touch build and never oom + innervate.
Also dampening have nearly no place in 3ve as games are usually fast max 3 min so this change i dislike will only affect aids bracket where we get no titles.

Reducing power of 2 and 3 min cds? Same should be done with 1 min cds then. Whould you like to see frost dk pillar of frost be equal to 3 min cd incarnation? Where is balance here?

Pvp templates are nice. Who cares about itemization in pvp? Its finally more fair than ever. Getting 900 ilvl without legendaries is possible in 3 days without raiding. 3% stats difference? Its not insane and on low ratings where everyone start people usually have 910-920 ilvl.

In wod when you leveled new char you had to deal with people 20% stronger because of shit gear. I was queing arena games with heirlooms (games were winable at 50% win ratio because of had bad 1500 ppl are).

The only bad thing is class designs and synergy between classes. With pvp hotifxes meta changes so other comps are op. Like sp/lock/rshaman is very strong now and feral/mm-sp-destro/x was some time ago. You can adapt to meta or re-roll on alt.

On top of that endless AP farm. I had 56 traits in 7.2.5 without raiding and 53-54 on alts when ppl had 61+. Try to grind it on 3 characters without no-lifing.

[Louz]

You can't balance PvP because of the class design. It doesn't matter what you do with the numbers at this point.

The game is not focused enough on small choices and rotational utilities, and too focused on smooth rotations and massive cooldowns.

Basically, the game has become an exercise in cooldown alignment and cooldown trading. That's the extent of the depth now. Every once in a while you feel like something else in there that works, but unfortunately that leads you to the second problem - the fact that Dampening nerfs every healer over time equally regardless of their prior performance. As a result, they'll both be unable to heal at the same time, and therefore the individual small decisions that could have led to a mana disparity and therefore a win are all ignored.

I think one of the most important things Blizzard can do is to change how Dampening works, so that instead of reducing healing over time, it instead simply reduces MP5 mana regen, and that would solve a good chunk of the issues.

The next thing they need to do is add costs to every freakin' CC in the game. If you use it, you forgo something else. This not only means lower damage during stuns and the like, but it also means that you add some real depth and choice to the combat.

Then you add to that by substantially reducing the power of DPS cooldowns, especially those 2 and 3 minute ones.

Round that out with some retuned spells where you are encouraged to use them circumstantially instead of using it based on procs - take a lot of inspiration from vanilla on this one - and I think you've got some really good PvP on your hands.

My biggest problem with PvP is how some classes can burst you out of blue without any ramp-up necessary AND pop up an immunity at the same time while doing the same amount of damage. Some even have the effects baked in, like Pillar of Frost - damage cooldown AND a defensive?

Arenas should really be put on a second rail or made a brawl-kinda thing.

They should focus on improving battlegrounds, like proper roles setting (just like you need a tank, a healer and 3 dps for a dungeon), make all battles rated so that people don't queue for quick loss, but keep a "practice" matches available, even with bots, add "play again" button after the match ends so that when you meet with decent people, you can play again (just like you can when finishing a dungeon), or even fix the damn maps, so that you could actually LoS stuff instead of being shot through rocks and tree stumps, add tutorials so that when you're new, you can try it out and then be actual benefit to the team, not a clueless pve guy who just came along for the weekly event.

[khazlol]

thought the pvp template might have fix'd pvp for leveling but people found a way to abuse the ilvl stuff and nothing was ever done about it...

[Ishayu]

Reducing mana regen will favor rdruids that can go healing touch build and never oom + innervate.
Also dampening have nearly no place in 3ve as games are usually fast max 3 min so this change i dislike will only affect aids bracket where we get no titles.

No, it won't. And even if it does, we can apply it differently to different healers if we need to. But if there is a disparity in mana usage across healers, that's a PvE balance issue too, and should be treated as such.

It's true that the problem is much lesser in 3v3 than in 2v2. Like Dampening, the mana regen debuff could be different in the two modes, however I would like to point out that the main reason Dampening is different is that it nerfs healing rather than efficiency, making the whole situatio n very "You can survive and you don't go OOM" or "You cannot survive at all and just straight up die". Ideally what we want is to hit that sweet-spot where if you pop a lot of stuff, you become less efficient, but you stand a good chance of survival, although in some circumstances you should die, and if the enemy team doesn't mana pressure at all, you should just be scott-free to do nothing.

Reducing power of 2 and 3 min cds? Same should be done with 1 min cds then. Whould you like to see frost dk pillar of frost be equal to 3 min cd incarnation? Where is balance here?

No. The whole point is 30 sec and 1 min CD's remain strong and as a result play a bigger role.

Some of them should be nerfed however, since the goal is to move further away from cooldown based gameplay.

I think an appropriate thing to do would be to give a lot of them costs so that, when using them, you give up something else, whether that'd be CC or damage or healing or whatever.

Pvp templates are nice. Who cares about itemization in pvp? Its finally more fair than ever. Getting 900 ilvl without legendaries is possible in 3 days without raiding. 3% stats difference? Its not insane and on low ratings where everyone start people usually have 910-920 ilvl.

In wod when you leveled new char you had to deal with people 20% stronger because of shit gear. I was queing arena games with heirlooms (games were winable at 50% win ratio because of had bad 1500 ppl are).

I absolutely hate stat templates. It's one thing to normalize gear, but to rip out all customization options in regards to stats is just disgusting, shocking, and sad. It vastly limits strategic opportunity and synergy and dumbs the game down a ton. It really is no fun in a game like this.

WoW should be an MMORPG first and an action game second.

The only bad thing is class designs and synergy between classes. With pvp hotifxes meta changes so other comps are op. Like sp/lock/rshaman is very strong now and feral/mm-sp-destro/x was some time ago. You can adapt to meta or re-roll on alt.

On top of that endless AP farm. I had 56 traits in 7.2.5 without raiding and 53-54 on alts when ppl had 61+. Try to grind it on 3 characters without no-lifing.

Part of this problem is a lack of depth stemming from the above issue. It's very easy to figure out what the best specs and comps are, and as a result people flock to them very fast, and when it happens the meta really can't change until Blizzard retunes the balance.

The stat template does make it easier to balance the game, but it also reduces customization and counters to the point where it's far more impotant to get perfect, and as a result nothing really changed.

[Duckypoo]

No they did not, sadly they gave the job to people who are far too young/inexperienced and suffer from ADHD.

ADHD would actually be beneficial to them. They would be able to hyper focus on their job and not be bothered by anything else around them. Maybe you should educate yourself on things before make make dumb ass posts about them.

- - - Updated - - -

Legion PvP is the most fun I have in PvP since Cata.

I'm not sure if you're trolling or have a very skewed definition of fun, but Cata PvP was trash thanks to all the garbage changes they made.

[Tyrannica]

I might be in the minority, but I am enjoying PvP. I think all the classes feel unique and it is although melee heavy, I think there is balance.

Inb4 'says the DH,' I play Ele sham and arcane mage.

What?!!!

I quit the game, because all the classes do feel the same and this is allready a problem in the dominating PVE aspect of the game. In BGs and Arenas we have mechanics that make all classes feel the same even more, due to limitations in customizing your chars and the pvp stat template.

If the designers of this game want to bring back the fun to this game they should consider to make classes and their subclasses give meaningful diversity back again. When it comes to rpgs its obviously more important than a boring balance. Perfect balance isn't needed in wow, its needed in starcraft kinda games. In a game like wow all thats needed is to shut down the most op stuff not every tiny aspect of the game that was supposed to be fun.(like stacking mastery or crit and sometimes HP)

[Super Kami Dende]

I'm not sure if you're trolling or have a very skewed definition of fun, but Cata PvP was trash thanks to all the garbage changes they made.

I played a Tank in Cata. Cata Tank PvP was the GOAT because of vengeance stacking in PvP. I do half my PvP in Legion as a Tank.

Cata and Legion were expacs where I could play my PvE mainspec "successfully" in PvP thus my enjoyment of both. Not Trolling.

[Sanguinerd]

They didn't give up on PvP they just chose to balance it around the wrong thing: arena. The majority of PvP is done in battlegrounds yet most if not all mounts, titles and unique gear are tied up on rated arena(and rated bgs but that's not done so much).

I don't like arena, never have never will. It's just not fun to me yet I'm almost forced to play it due to wanting those vicious mounts. I've tried doing some rated battlegrounds but just fail to find proper groups but that's not completely Blizzard's fault.

I'm not a fan of the PvP templates either, I LIKED gathering the best possible gear to PVP with and crush my undergeared enemy. I didn't mind when someone outgeared me and won because of it - I also liked giving that person one hell of a fight before going down or even beating someone with better gear than me. With the template system you can't really give your char the stats YOU want, you just get what Blizzard decided you should have.

For a long time I've just been wondering why someone like me, who does a ton of random battlegrounds can't get rewarded in some way that is equal to people doing arena. I don't mind having to win 300 random battlegrounds to get a vicious saddle, I'd take that over having to do arena or rated bgs in a heartbeat.

[Duckypoo]

I played a Tank in Cata. Cata Tank PvP was the GOAT because of vengeance stacking in PvP. I do half my PvP in Legion as a Tank.

Cata and Legion were expacs where I could play my PvE mainspec "successfully" in PvP thus my enjoyment of both. Not Trolling.

So because tanks were easy mode in PvP you thought that PvP was great? To each his own, but the rest of PvP was shit. Playing a tank is fun (it's what I do) but that shouldn't be your only weight of judgement.

/quack

[Tyrannica]

Can I get pvp mounts in the cash shop yet? /s

OT: This is one of my least favorite pvp expansions, but it doesn't feel totally ignored. Could be a lot better, though.

The only PvP expansion that deserved beeing named as such, was TBC!