We have to grind for raid nerfs too?

[jontunnel130]

gotta love the blizzard apologists. defending their "gotta keep em subbed by any means necessary" approach. rng on rng on rng. gtfo srsly. for those of you "liking" this "style" you are one or all of the following: young, naive, myopic, under the mean iq, or just a flat out blizz employee. the game did die in cata. wrath was the zenith regardless of your fanboy opinions defending dev decisions at every turn. for me I came back and am reluctantly hanging around for antorus. emotional bonds with my characters and the memories associated with them are what truly keep me playing

[Deleted]

The real problem is that there hasn't been enough grinding in recent times and players no longer understand what it truly means to play an MMO.

Yeah, it's a damned shame we're not all NEETs leeching from society like the real MMO players of today.

[david0925]

@styil: I have alts that only do follower missions for AP that are sitting at 58 traits right now. If you actually play your main, you should have much higher at this point even with zero intentional grinding. You're making a much bigger deal out of this than it actually is.

[Deleted]

@styil: I have alts that only do follower missions for AP that are sitting at 58 traits right now. If you actually play your main, you should have much higher at this point even with zero intentional grinding. You're making a much bigger deal out of this than it actually is.

Dude, I have the main at 70, my first alt at 69, second alt at 67, almost killed KJ mythic and lemme tell you, this system is trash. They ruined what was fine in WOD. The legendary ring system was perfect: you want an upgrade? Kill end boss and you get it. Quick and easy. Worked great for those with just a main and for those with several alts since getting a kill of Archimonde would take 15minutes top all considered. With legion they added this shitty AP system where you actually need to waste a lot more time to get the upgrades. To even make it worse, they removed the flying from argus, which takes even longer to do the bullshit repetitive WQs. At least they could make it so if your rep is exalted you're allowed to fly there, i have THREE alts all exalted with army of the light/argussian but apparently its not enough for blizzard to let me fly there.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Dude, I have the main at 70, my first alt at 69, second alt at 67, almost killed KJ mythic and lemme tell you, this system is trash. They ruined what was fine in WOD. The legendary ring system was perfect: you want an upgrade? Kill end boss and you get it. Quick and easy. Worked great for those with just a main and for those with several alts since getting a kill of Archimonde would take 15minutes top all considered. With legion they added this shitty AP system where you actually need to waste a lot more time to get the upgrades. To even make it worse, they removed the flying from argus, which takes even longer to do the bullshit repetitive WQs. At least they could make it so if your rep is exalted you're allowed to fly there, i have THREE alts all exalted with army of the light/argussian but apparently its not enough for blizzard to let me fly there.

This takes it back to the conundrum of pleasing both those who want to log in 1-2 nights a week for raids, AND those who want to log in 5+ nights a week and have something useful to do every time they log in. The latter want some way to continue powering up their favorite toons all through the week, while the former want to stay caught up while only playing 2/week. I don't know how else Blizz can balance this other than playing with the value/importance of AP.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't see how anyone that has real life obligations can possibly say that Legion, objectively, isn't grindy.

Most people, in my opinion, forget that just because you have a raiding guild, doesn't mean you want to commit more time outside of scheduled raid time (and also outside of doing whatever else you do) signing up for M+ runs to grind for gear, or AP, or whatever else you may desire.

I don't think it's a coincidence that my favorite expansions that I've ever played were Cata, MoP, and WoD. In that order. The key difference between those expansion and this one is that blizzard wasn't trying to introduce convoluted and unnecessary garbage to the game (my opinion.) I mean does anyone really even get excited for legendaries anymore? Or do you just cross your fingers and hope it's not some bullshit grind, or if it is that it's not THAT annoying to do? At least prior to this expansion, when I was done with a rep, there was no reason to go back. Not playing because I've completed all there is to offer is infinitely better than stopping because I feel exhausted trying to keep up.

Honestly though, I think I'm just old, and tired of playing at this point. I quit for a little while during WoD, and ever since then it's never been the same. It was like stepping away gave me perspective that I really actually hate all the busy work I have to do just to raid, which is all I want to do.

I took a long break at the end of Cataclysm, came back for the last tier of WoD, and feel like my time away has given me a better perspective for enjoying the game. Main thing is I think of it as a game. I have fewer expectations, less stress about any of it, and wouldn't care that much if it all went away tomorrow. That said, I do log in most days and play, and I mostly enjoy it. I'm back at raiding, which I didn't expect to do when I started playing again. I MT for a H guild that dabbles in M, which has always been my niche. I have a handful of alts, mostly tanks, and I enjoy a lot of the content you seem to resent. I do WQs over a beer after work, or with my morning coffee. I set one night aside for M+, which I actually enjoy more than raiding; I prefer the tighter teamwork and comradery that you can develop with a 5 team. I am moderately competitive, as in wanting to show up prepared and feel like I'm pulling my weight on the team, but I don't stress over min-maxing and don't feel life begins when I have bis everything. Reflecting on it as I type this, I guess I mostly just enjoy developing my characters, creating an image and transmog I like for each of them, farming the occasional power up from whatever source. I don't really care if they get a power up from raiding, M+, world boss, or the gradual accumulation of AP; as long as it feels like they are progressing while I chill with my nice craft beer and I don't have to deal with a lot of drama in the process.

For the record (not that it should matter, but someone always wants to go there): I do also work full time at a job I love, pay my own bills, and have other hobbies (mostly trail running). I enjoy WoW, but it's only one of many ways I find to enjoy life.

I don't judge anyone who enjoys the game differently than I do. A lot of my comments on MMO-C are just playing devils advocate and reminding people not to take a game too seriously.