Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[cubby]

Does the name Capt. Brett Crozier sound familiar? It should. He was featured in this article, containing amongst other things:



"Wow, it sounds like the captain of that ship really valued the safety of his crewmen. He sounds like a good person to have in charge."

Yes, he was.

"Was?"

He has been relieved of his command.

"Why?"

Oh, because the letter he wrote was leaked to the media. This is the era of Trump, don't forget. Optics is everything. We can't have people knowing there's a virus that could hurt people, can we?

Incidentally, an evacuation is already ongoing, apparently taking a few days. So it's not like his concerns weren't justified. So that's not the excuse.

I wish @Skroe could comment.

Interesting that in the letter the Captain says "it's not like we're at war" - I wonder if that set off El Cheeto.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Whats is really going to suck is a lot of these people that are getting fired / let go in the US probably weren't at the base / entry level pay at their jobs unless they were less than a year or two from hire. Many of them probably will be hired back, and I wouldn't doubt if some companies try to pull the old "you are a new employee and that is the entrance wage" game, combined with "your years of service have reset, you were not a concurrent employee" to fuck people over. After all, that would get the stock holders an extra few nickles.

[Paranoid Android]

Good thing Kavanaugh got the appointment then, eh? Kennedy sure did a good job arranging that through his son.

I got paywalled so no time to read the whole article. Yeah, its hard not get to "conspiracy" with the judge retirement. Obviously the cynic in me is it always connected and comes back to money. Add the politics of putting a more conservative (couth shill) judge like Kavanaugh. I suppose in the end Kennedy had the right to retire and even then he likely wanted a Republican to do his nominee.

[cubby]

I got paywalled so no time to read the whole article. Yeah, its hard not get to "conspiracy" with the judge retirement. Obviously the cynic in me is it always connected and comes back to money. Add the politics of putting a more conservative (couth shill) judge like Kavanaugh. I suppose in the end Kennedy had the right to retire and even then he likely wanted a Republican to do his nominee.

The link between Trump-JusticeKennedy-Kavanaugh is very strong. Kennedy's son was the ONLY banker willing to lend to Trump when he was facing bankruptcy number 5 or 6. United States' banks had cut Trump off completely. And Deutsche Bank loaned Trump close to a billion dollars - all through Kennedy's pressure/work.

Justice Kennedy meets with Trump privately (no one else) and BOOM! - Kavanaugh (Justice Kennedy's former clerk) is now the nominee.

Interestingly enough - Kennedy was pretty smart about it. Retiring when he knew he could get his man nominated and confirmed. I wish RBG had done that with Obama in 2010.

[Machismo]

The link between Trump-JusticeKennedy-Kavanaugh is very strong. Kennedy's son was the ONLY banker willing to lend to Trump when he was facing bankruptcy number 5 or 6. United States' banks had cut Trump off completely. And Deutsche Bank loaned Trump close to a billion dollars - all through Kennedy's pressure/work.

Justice Kennedy meets with Trump privately (no one else) and BOOM! - Kavanaugh (Justice Kennedy's former clerk) is now the nominee.

Interestingly enough - Kennedy was pretty smart about it. Retiring when he knew he could get his man nominated and confirmed. I wish RBG had done that with Obama in 2010.

I used to have some respect for Kennedy, but after his bullshit deal with Trump... fuck him.

[Breccia]

Interesting that in the letter the Captain says "it's not like we're at war" - I wonder if that set off El Cheeto.

There are two options:

1) Trump ordered him relieved of command. I don't think that's what happened, but if it is, that needs to come out.

2) Trump did not directly intervene, but, others did following the protocol they surmised from the Commander in Cheetos. It's possible that there's a "fire all leakers" rule for all military at all times, but, at what point was this supposed to be a secret? Especially considering there's an evacuation plan, what's the point in this case?

Barring new evidence, the only options seem to be "Trump did it personally" or "Trump didn't, but other military officers assumed he'd want to". If there's another way to look at it, by all means, anyone's free to chime in.

[Thekri]

"Wow, it sounds like the captain of that ship really valued the safety of his crewmen. He sounds like a good person to have in charge."

Yes, he was.

"Was?"

He has been relieved of his command.

"Why?"

Oh, because the letter he wrote was leaked to the media. This is the era of Trump, don't forget. Optics is everything. We can't have people knowing there's a virus that could hurt people, can we?

Incidentally, an evacuation is already ongoing, apparently taking a few days. So it's not like his concerns weren't justified. So that's not the excuse.

I wish @Skroe could comment.

Totally justified, and it was obvious it would happen from the moment the article was published. Has nothing to do with the Trump administration either, any Admiral would have done the same thing.

The reason he was removed wasn't for bringing up the problem, or for recommending that solution, it was for drafting an angry letter, and apparently distributing it quite widely. Widely enough that a major newspaper got ahold of it and published it.

Think about what that precedent that sets. Any time an officer disagrees with an order, he or she can just fire off an angry OPed to a newspaper, disagreeing with official policy? That would be total chaos, you couldn't have any sort of policy. There is a right way to do this, and a wrong way. Sometimes, when things are serious enough, you have to be willing to try it the wrong way, if the right way isn't working. But there will be consequences for that.

So it isn't that I fault that Captain per se, but this result was both inevitable and necessary. I hope it was worth it (And it very well might have been, that isn't sarcastic).

- - - Updated - - -

There are two options:

1) Trump ordered him relieved of command. I don't think that's what happened, but if it is, that needs to come out.

2) Trump did not directly intervene, but, others did following the protocol they surmised from the Commander in Cheetos. It's possible that there's a "fire all leakers" rule for all military at all times, but, at what point was this supposed to be a secret? Especially considering there's an evacuation plan, what's the point in this case?

Barring new evidence, the only options seem to be "Trump did it personally" or "Trump didn't, but other military officers assumed he'd want to". If there's another way to look at it, by all means, anyone's free to chime in.

Nope, see above. We can't have military officers publicly disagreeing with policy. It is actually criminal behavior under the UCMJ, and probably the biggest No-No there is, outside of actual warcrimes. All my disagreements with my superiors (And there were many) were behind close doors. Nothing gets to the men, and certainly no sign of disagreement gets to the Press.

Obama fired McCrystal for basically the same reason, and Truman fired MacArthur for it. This guy is lower then either of them, so an admiral fired him, not the President.

[Shadowferal]

Military...gotta remember you're an asset. And you don't have "freedom of speech."

[Inuyaki]

lol, I just thought "Well, let's laugh a bit before going to bed... let's open a stream of the daily Trump briefing"
And it worked. Those first 2 minutes of incoherent rambling without any point and structure is hilarious.
And I could not tell you one thing he said in those 2 minutes


PS oh it already ended... damn

[D Luniz]

lol, I just thought "Well, let's laugh a bit before going to bed... let's open a stream of the daily Trump briefing"
And it worked. Those first 2 minutes of incoherent rambling without any point and structure is hilarious.
And I could not tell you one thing he said in those 2 minutes

I remember whining about investigations while claiming it would help his poll numbers, I blanked out after that.

[Stormspark]

There are two options:

1) Trump ordered him relieved of command. I don't think that's what happened, but if it is, that needs to come out.

2) Trump did not directly intervene, but, others did following the protocol they surmised from the Commander in Cheetos. It's possible that there's a "fire all leakers" rule for all military at all times, but, at what point was this supposed to be a secret? Especially considering there's an evacuation plan, what's the point in this case?

Barring new evidence, the only options seem to be "Trump did it personally" or "Trump didn't, but other military officers assumed he'd want to". If there's another way to look at it, by all means, anyone's free to chime in.

Nazi Germany had a term for it. Working Toward the Führer.

[Inuyaki]

FOUR WEEKS AGO, WE HAD THE GREATEST ECONOMY IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD. WE HAD THE MOST JOBS EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES. ALMOST 160 MILLION JOBS, RIGHT? AND THEN ONE DAY I GET A CALL FROM DR. FAUCI AND HE SAID -- AND SHE SAID, WE HAVE A PROBLEM. I SAID, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? AND THEY SAID, WE MAY HAVE TO CLOSE IT UP. THEY SAID, CLOSE UP THE COUNTRY. I SAID, WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT? AND WE DISCUSSED TODAY, AND PROBABLY NOT SINCE 1917, CAME TO THE CONCLUSION, AND SHE IS A FANTASTIC PERSON, A BRILLIANT PERSON, AND THIS IS WHAT SHE KNOWS. I SAID, HAS IT EVER BEEN THIS BAD? AND I THINK I CAN REPRESENT THAT YOU SAID NO. PART OF IT IS THE CONTAGION. IF YOU SNEEZE, I PROBABLY GET IT. WHOEVER HEARD OF A THING LIKE THAT? IN THIS VERY TALENTED REPORTER IS BAILING OUT. HE IS OUT OF HERE. I DON'T BLAME YOU. BUT IT IS A VERY CONTAGIOUS THING. PROBABLY THE LIKES OF WHICH WE'VE NEVER SEEN. BUT 1917, OVER 100 YEARS AGO, IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT MANY TIMES, HORRIBLE, I'VE HEARD FROM 50 TO 75, 75 TO 100, BUT IT WAS TENS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. WE HAVE THE ADVANTAGE OF COMMUNICATION. THIS COULD HAVE BEEN JUST AS BAD. WE CAN SEE WHAT TO DO. WE CAN HAVE THESE MEETINGS. THEY CAN WATCH ON TELEVISION, WHICH THEY DO, AND THEY SAY, SOCIAL DISTANCING. BUT IN 1917, THEY DIDN'T HAVE THAT OPTION. THEY JUST NOTICED PEOPLE WERE DYING ALL OVER THE PLACE. A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY DIED. TO ME IT IS A GREAT QUESTION, HOW COME MORE PEOPLE DIDN'T DIE IN THIS COUNTRY? AND THEY SAID IT ACTUALLY STARTED IN THIS COUNTRY AND WENT TO EUROPE. RELATIVELY, WE LOST VERY FEW COMPARED TO EUROPE. SO THIS IS A TERRIBLE THING THAT HAPPENED AND WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW WITH PEOPLE IN JOBS, SO THINK OF THE POSITION I'M IN. WE HAVE BUILT, ALTOGETHER, THE GREATEST ECONOMY IN HISTORY. AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, PEOPLE COME IN, AND HERE'S THE THING, THEY WERE RIGHT. EVERYBODY QUESTIONED IT FOR A WHILE. THEY SAID, LET'S KEEP IT OPEN. LET'S RIDE IT. IF WE DID THAT, YOU SAW THE OTHER GRAPH. AND WHETHER IT IS TRUE OR ALMOST TRUE OR NOT TRUE, IT WAS 2.2 MILLION PEOPLE WOULD HAVE DIED. IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. THE GRAPH COULD HAVE BEEN EVEN SHORTER. I ALWAYS NOTICE THAT HORRIBLE ONE WHERE ECHOES HIGH, IT ACTUALLY COMES DOWN A LITTLE BIT FASTER. IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN OVER FASTER AND YOU WOULD HAVE LOST 2.2 MILLION PEOPLE. SO THEY COME IN AND THEY SAY, WE HAVE TO CLOSE UP THE COUNTRY. AND I SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT THAT DOES TO THE FABRIC OF THIS COUNTRY, TO PEOPLE THAT HAD GREAT JOBS, GREAT FAMILY, NO PROBLEMS WITH MONEY? EVERYTHING IS PERFECT, THEN THEY GO FROM THAT TO HAVING NO JOB. AND THEN YOU SEE 6 MILLION PEOPLE UNEMPLOYED. UNEMPLOYMENT NUMBERS GET RELEASED AND YOU SEE 6 MILLION PEOPLE. AND IT IS AN ARTIFICIAL CLOSING. IT IS NOT LIKE WE HAVE A MASSIVE RECESSION OR WORSE. IT IS ARTIFICIAL. WE TURNED IT OFF. WE ARE SAYING, DON'T GO TO WORK AND WE WILL PAY YOU. EVERYTHING IS THE OPPOSITE. IT WAS ALWAYS, GO TO WORK AND MAKE A LOT OF MONEY, THE AMERICAN DREAM. BECAUSE OF A HIDDEN ENEMY, WE ARE SAYING, DON'T GO TO WORK, AND WE ARE GOING TO PAY YOU. AND WE WILL PROBABLY DO MORE. I THINK INFRASTRUCTURE WOULD BE A FANTASTIC THING TO DO. YOU GIVE DEDUCTIBILITY FOR BUSINESSES WHERE THEY GO TO USE THE RESTAURANTS. THE RESTAURANTS WILL BE BIGGER AND BETTER THAN BEFORE. THEY STARTED DOING WELL, BUT THEY HAVE FEWER RESTAURANTS. BUT THE BLOOM OF THE RESTAURANTS IS WHEN THEY HAD DEDUCTIBILITY. AND ENTERTAINMENT. IT WAS A GREAT THING. BUT THEY CLOSED IT AND THEN THEY CLOSED IT AGAIN. BUT INFRASTRUCTURE. WE BORROW OUR MONEY NOW AT ZERO. IF WE WERE PAYING 5%, 4%, 3%, DIFFERENT BALLGAME. WE CAN BORROW LONG-TERM FOR LITERALLY ZERO. BECAUSE WE ARE CONSIDERED THE SAFE INVESTMENT ALL OVER THE WORLD. THAT IS WHY THEY WANT THE MONEY. SO I KNOW BETTER THAN ANYBODY. I KNOW WHAT THEY ARE GOING THROUGH AND IT IS HORRIBLE. BUT I WANT TO BE ABLE TO GET IT BACK FAST. WHEN THIS IS OVER, WE ARE GOING TO CELEBRATE. EVERYONE IS GOING TO GO TO WORK. AND WE'VE LEARNED A LOT. WE'VE LEARNED ABOUT BORDERS. WE'VE LEARNED ABOUT RELIANCE ON OTHER COUNTRIES. WE'VE LEARNED SO MUCH THAT I THINK WE REALLY HAVE A CHANCE TO BE BIGGER AND BETTER AND STRONGER AND I THINK IT IS GOING TO COME BACK VERY QUICKLY, BUT FIRST WE HAVE TO DEFEAT THIS ENEMY. SO WE WILL SEE YOU TOMORROW. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

His answer according to C-Span transcript.
Holy shit

This was the question:

6.6 MILLION AMERICANS FILED FOR UNEMPLOYMENT LAST WEEK. WE HAVEN'T HEARD YOU TALK A LOT ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE GOING THROUGH.

[Edge-]

Obama fired McCrystal for basically the same reason, and Truman fired MacArthur for it. This guy is lower then either of them, so an admiral fired him, not the President.

I mean...sorta kinda? McCrystal participated in a Rolling Stone profile, something he always knew would be public, and openly and on the record trashed Obama.

I read the letter from Crozier, and there's narry a mention of Trump or the administration. I see nothing in his letter worth firing over when it comes to the content. And I'm unaware that letters being discovered by the press is grounds for firing, either. I mean, remember that time a US general in Iraq wrote a very poor draft letter about US forces pulling out of the country and that found its way to the press?

That was Gen. William H. Seely III, and he's been nominated for a promotion the following week - https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Rel...announcements/

I'm not military, so if there's nuances I'm missing here let me know. But I'm not seeing either as remotely the same.

[PhaelixWW]

And I'm unaware that letters being discovered by the press is grounds for firing, either.

The CNN article stated that he was "expected to be relieved of duty for being suspected of leaking the memo, a defense official tells CNN."

[Edge-]

The CNN article stated that he was "expected to be relieved of duty for being suspected of leaking the memo, a defense official tells CNN."

Ah, missed that bit. That's reasonable, then. The content isn't objectionable, but if he leaked it then that makes total sense.

[Orbitus]

https://theweek.com/speedreads/90638...-30-golf-carts

So the Secret Service signed an "emergency order" apparently.

For golf cart rentals.

They won't say who it's to protect, just a "dignitary", but it just also happens to be at one of Trump's favorite courses.

I'm glad Trump has his priorities right. Pandemic facing the nation? Meh. Might not be able to go golfing for a weekend? WE MUST ADDRESS THE INJUSTICE IMMEDIATELY.

- - - Updated - - -

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...utpacing-trump



Unsurprising. But how's he faring in some of the battleground states he needs to win?



So...not great. Almost like being a shitshow and shitting on a pretty popular governor isn't a great electoral strategy.

Don't worry, Ghostpanther will link another biased Fox News poll that says the opposite.

- - - Updated - - -

Not great, but probably better than being murdered by Hillary Clinton for being loyal to the Clintons.

And yet, there is no evidence for any of this happening. Just you pushing fucking conspiracy theories again.

[Belize]

His answer according to C-Span transcript.
Holy shit

This was the question:

This is almost as unpleasant to read as it is to hear him talk.

Well done CSpan, you've even made reading Trump obnoxious.

[Odinfrost]

His answer according to C-Span transcript.
Holy shit

This was the question:

Can I get a TL : DR on that block of Trump? Normally, reading what he says is a struggle, but the all caps and lack of breaks between sentences or segments really messes with my eyes

[Zaydin]

Remember when Trumpkins were clutching their pearls and wailing about how awful it was that Hunter Biden got a job in Ukraine due to 'nepotism'?

Why aren't they wailing about how awful it is that Jared Kushner, a man grossly unqualified to run anything, is involved in handling the largest crisis to face the nation in decades who is only where he is now due to nepotism?

Based on the article, it looks like Kushner might have been where Trump got the idea that New York was exaggerating the number of ventilators they needed, too.

[Trifle]

Can I get a TL : DR on that block of Trump? Normally, reading what he says is a struggle, but the all caps and lack of breaks between sentences or segments really messes with my eyes

Don't worry, it's completely illegible even with better formatting. Apparently Dr Fauci is a 'she' now ? I have no idea...