Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Paranoid Android]

The President's unpredictable behavior led advisers to hesitate to give him military options because they feared he could start a war

Amid escalating tensions with both North Korea and Iran, President Donald Trump's advisers hesitated to give him military options fearing the President might accidentally take the US to war and deliberately informed their counterparts in both countries that they did not know what the President would do next, multiple former administration officials tell me.

So scary. Basically his own advisors believed Trump too be so ignorant, so unpredictable that they did not want to give any military options fearing he might work on them.

Also again, they talked about how Trump never wanted to read Intel reports and his advisors stated he would skim the first page or couple of bullet points. So they knew that they had to make these briefings into shorter bullet points so he would actually read them. Guess what? He still didn't read them.

Plus anytime Russia or Putin would come up, Trump would explode on his advisors. Sort of "I don't want to hear it". The analysis is that Trump really admires Putin and his power over Western Democracy. So yeah a typical authoritarian wannabee.

Just want comment that this no more rumor or fake news. From the start of his first year and probably on the first few pages of this thread, when discussed about Tillerson, that Trump did not read his Intel briefings.

[Ursus]

The President's unpredictable behavior led advisers to hesitate to give him military options because they feared he could start a war



So scary. Basically his own advisors believed Trump too be so ignorant, so unpredictable that they did not want to give any military options fearing he might work on them.

Also again, they talked about how Trump never wanted to read Intel reports and his advisors stated he would skim the first page or couple of bullet points. So they knew that they had to make these briefings into shorter bullet points so he would actually read them. Guess what? He still didn't read them.

The only way to get him to "read" the intel reports would be to animate the reports into cartoons, occasionally interspersed with pornography.

[Felya]

The only way to get him to "read" the intel reports would be to animate the reports into cartoons, occasionally interspersed with pornography.

Republicans joined Democrats in voting to limit Trump’s war powers against Iran, he vetoed it and said it was insulting.

[Monster Hunter]

Interesting video.

There was a lot of content in there, but several themes stand out.

1) China is employing tactics used by the Europeans when they were ascendant, and also by the US when we overtook Europe. Now China is doing it, and neither the US nor Europe are worried or are even acknowledging the existence of a problem. When China buys out one port and uses it mostly for their advantage - wow look at that! Now that it's a pattern, we don't take any action to slow it down. Greece needs money, Portugal needs money (two cases brought up in the video) - and it's China to the rescue. For a price of course, just like we or Europe did in the past (and present).

2) The US media talks incessantly about how evil and inefficient and stupid the Chinese are. The media lies may comfort Americans, but they also lead us in bad directions. A while back, we were incredulous about the response to us BRAVELY LIBERATING AND FREEING THEIR COUNTRY in Iraq and other countries and asked "Why do they hate us so much?". Now we ask ourselves - how did STUPID EVIL COMMUNIST CHINA that has so many OBVIOUS PROBLEMS get so economically strong? How did COMMUNIST China bring more people out of poverty than there are people in the US? (US conservatives used to talk a lot about the world wide reduction in poverty until it was pointed out that China is responsible for most of it). Our media being so dishonest leads the US down many bad paths.

3) One of Trump's national policies is to talk a good game about being TOUGH ON CHINA, while taking actions that strengthen China and weaken the US. Due to the hard work of our dishonest media, this policy seems to be ingrained in the US, and won't change even if Trump is no longer in office in January.

Problem is alot of people nowadays, politicians included no matter there stripe are very stupid when it comes the details of history, every ones happy to say "empire bad", focus on the terrible things that happend at there height but they just assume that every empire was built the same way as Rome and Spain by marching a big army in, but that's a very simplistic view and not accurate when it comes to how nations like Britain and the Dutch built there empires starting with ports and expanding mostly by treaty's, every leader of a nation has a price there willing to sell there people out for, history tells us this and China knows this, but worse America isn't even contesting it.

And I'll admit before watching that and looking into it I was mostly unaware of how those empires were built. But I'm just a peasant, not the leader of a nation who needs to counter this some how.

[Stormspark]

I think he knows this is bs that will pissoff all but his most rabid base, or he wouldnt do this late at night

Trump bans dealings with Chinese owners of TikTok, WeChat

Been hearing some people claiming this will affect Discord, IF true, thats effectively every social gamer instantly angered.

Yeah, I'm not turning off Discord. Period. Will not happen, he can go fuck himself. Worst case scenario, I have to use a VPN.

[Felya]

Yeah, I'm not turning off Discord. Period. Will not happen, he can go fuck himself. Worst case scenario, I have to use a VPN.

Then Anita Sarkisian wins... lol

Edit: Is Trump going to go against Chines gold sellers in WoW next or does Steve Bannon still run one of those?

[Gorsameth]

The President's unpredictable behavior led advisers to hesitate to give him military options because they feared he could start a war



So scary. Basically his own advisors believed Trump too be so ignorant, so unpredictable that they did not want to give any military options fearing he might work on them.

Also again, they talked about how Trump never wanted to read Intel reports and his advisors stated he would skim the first page or couple of bullet points. So they knew that they had to make these briefings into shorter bullet points so he would actually read them. Guess what? He still didn't read them.

Plus anytime Russia or Putin would come up, Trump would explode on his advisors. Sort of "I don't want to hear it". The analysis is that Trump really admires Putin and his power over Western Democracy. So yeah a typical authoritarian wannabee.

Just want comment that this no more rumor or fake news. From the start of his first year and probably on the first few pages of this thread, when discussed about Tillerson, that Trump did not read his Intel briefings.

There was an 'incident' I think kind of early on in Trumps term where the military gave him a 'soft' option and a bonkers one that no one would pick in order to make the softer option seem more like a good idea. Trump being the idiot he is went with the bonkers option.
Makes sense that his advisers don't want to make another mistake like that.

[Monster Hunter]

America is not "doomed to recede no matter what". The idea is ridiculous. Are we currently losing ground? Sure. Is anything inevitable? Hardly. The US still has a GDP more than 50% larger than that of China.

In 1930 the British empire was at its height, it stretched around the globe and America was the the British what China is to America, a growing power but still insignificant to the empire, in 20 years Britain was a broken nation, if I asked some one in 1930 if Britain loosing its empire to America was possible, most would laugh at the idea of some backwater nation surplanting Britain.....and then it happend.

Whilst America turned it eye inwards China has grown, not just economically but mostly influentialy, Chinese power plants power Europe, Chinese owned ports now dot a line from Europe to China, half of Australia is in there ownership and Chinese troops are stationed at many of those ports.

Half of Africa bows to Chinese investment, there hook's are well embedded in South America, Greece who sold a port to China and takes its money vetoed the EUs annual reports into Chinese human rights violations.

China already has more global influance than the USA. All that remains is to convert that into economic and military domination.

This isn't me being happy about that, this is me just pointing it out, you can check each of those things if you want, its all true.

America is at a crucial point, that will define the next 100 years of global power, this next election in America is THE most important election in the world in the last 100 years, if America fails to look outward and check china's growing influance, China will start to strangle America economically in the comming decades and it will be too late for America to do anything about it.

Mark my words well.

[Felya]

In 1930 the British empire was at its height, it stretched around the globe and America was the the British what China is to America, a growing power but still insignificant to the empire, in 20 years Britain was a broken nation, if I asked some one in 1930 if Britain loosing its empire to America was possible, most would laugh at the idea of some backwater nation surplanting Britain.....and then it happend.

No it wasn’t... this is complete conjecture. US overtook Britain, because a war destroyed most of Europe. The US Great Depression literally happened in the 1930s.

Whilst America turned it eye inwards China has grown, not just economically but mostly influentialy, Chinese power plants power Europe, Chinese owned ports now dot a line from Europe to China, half of Australia is in there ownership and Chinese troops are stationed at many of those ports.

When? When did US turn inward?

Half of Africa bows to Chinese investment, there hook's are well embedded in South America, Greece who sold a port to China and takes its money vetoed the EUs annual reports into Chinese human rights violations.

Yeah, China even owned Trump’s debt, for his bankruptcy.

China already has more global influance than the USA. All that remains is to convert that into economic and military domination.

... and baseless fear mongering...

This isn't me being happy about that, this is me just pointing it out, you can check each of those things if you want, its all true.

Nope, your immediate premise is off:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression

The decline in the U.S. economy was the factor that pulled down most other countries at first; then, internal weaknesses or strengths in each country made conditions worse or better. Frantic attempts by individual countries to shore up their economies through protectionist policies – such as the 1930 U.S. Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act and retaliatory tariffs in other states – exacerbated the collapse in global trade, contributing to the depression. By 1933, the economic decline had pushed world trade to one third of its level just four years earlier.

America is at a crucial point, that will define the next 100 years of global power, this next election in America is THE most important election in the world in the last 100 years, if America fails to look outward and check china's growing influance, China will start to strangle America economically in the comming decades and it will be too late for America to do anything about it.

Said every fucking election...

Mark my words well.

Why? We hear it every 4 years...

[omerome]

This brutal anti-Trump ad just aired during Fox & Friends.

Surprised they let it air, honestly.

Ouch! But we both know that Fox doesn't care or has any principles other than making money. In fact, this type of ad goes along with what they have stood for - making money. And selling fear is a money making machine.

[Breccia]

This brutal anti-Trump ad just aired during Fox & Friends.

Surprised they let it air, honestly.

I honestly don't know how many ads a TV station will turn down. That's part of the industry I know nothing about.

Here's the thing, that ad is doubly damning. Run the equivalent in 2016. Were people better off in 2016 than 2012? I think most people would have said "yes". Trump tried to run against Obama as the worst President ever, but jobs were growing just fine. The GDP was growing just fine. Unemployment had dropped a lot. And you could fill 60, 90, 180 seconds of "America is respected" pictures/videos of Obama getting along with everyone except Putin, Chavez, and the Pink Power Ranger.

Other than "judges" there are precious few ways any American could try to cherry-pick that lives of Americans in general (the plural of "anecdote" is not "data") are better now than 2016. Trump campaigned that everything was bad, it was all Obama's fault, and only he could fix it. You can't say "only I can fix it" yet avoid responsibility when it doesn't get fixed. As challenged in my previous post, you either have to say "Trump tried but failed" or "Trump didn't try".

Or, announce your hypocrisy by handwaving it.

[Milchshake]

I think he knows this is bs that will pissoff all but his most rabid base, or he wouldnt do this late at night

Trump bans dealings with Chinese owners of TikTok, WeChat

Been hearing some people claiming this will affect Discord, IF true, thats effectively every social gamer instantly angered.

Trump may have just unintentionally technically tried to ban financial payments to Riot Games, Epic Games, League of Legends, Valorant, Fortnite, and half the gaming industry by clamping down on Tencent

I dunno what will be funnier:

• Trump accidentally shivved the entire videogame industry and still gets the fawning support of uppercase Gamers because he shares their irrational hatred of seeing women and minorities in works of fiction.
• Or when your average reddit user realizes that TenCent owns their favorite vidya games.

But instead, let me tell you what Al Gore's wife did 30 years ago...

[Felya]

Trump may have just unintentionally technically tried to ban financial payments to Riot Games, Epic Games, League of Legends, Valorant, Fortnite, and half the gaming industry by clamping down on Tencent

I dunno what will be funnier:

• Trump accidentally shivved the entire videogame industry and still gets the fawning support of uppercase Gamers because he shares their irrational hatred of seeing women and minorities in works of fiction.
• Or when your average reddit user realizes that TenCent owns their favorite vidya games.

But instead, let me tell you what Al Gore's wife did 30 years ago...

Uhm... I have time and money invested in all of those...

[Milchshake]

Uhm... I have time and money invested in all of those...

For the last time, having a character with a /played of 5+ years, is not an investment.

[Felya]

For the last time, having a character with a /played of 5+ years, is not an investment.

Fine... spent... better? lol

[Breccia]

I dunno what will be funnier

League of Legends is literal trash. It tops the list.

Related: FB just took down an Official Q/QAnon group for breaking their rules.

I wonder what this election will look like, if social media suddenly remembers all the rules apply to all their customers? I mean, I'm sure there are left-leaning conspiracy sites out there, but are they really needed? "One hundred fifty thousand Americans dead and ten percent unemployment" is just kind of sitting in plain view. You don't need to add "and also Trump snorts ground-up Popeye's mild seasoning".

[Frolk]

For the last time, having a character with a /played of 5+ years, is not an investment.

Thats a very BOOMER choice of words you just used.

It might not be an FINANCIAL investment, but a TIME investment into his hobby.

[Thekri]

This might not be historical revisionism, but it is most certainly a very poor understanding of history.

In 1930 the British empire was at its height, it stretched around the globe and America was the the British what China is to America, a growing power but still insignificant to the empire, in 20 years Britain was a broken nation, if I asked some one in 1930 if Britain loosing its empire to America was possible, most would laugh at the idea of some backwater nation surplanting Britain.....and then it happend.

By 1930, literally everyone knew that was happening. In every nation in the world, people were extremely aware that the British Empire was in decline, and America was on the rise. In fact, most considered the US already well past Britain as a world power by that stage. By purchasing power parity, the US became the largest economy in the world by 1883, and has never come close to losing it since then. The country it took the title from? China.

The UK wasn't even close, even the entire British Empire combined didn't match the US by the early 20th century. By 1930, the British military was mostly obsolete, poorly led, and staggeringly expensive (A position the US may find it self in extremely soon, and may already be in).

Whilst America turned it eye inwards China has grown, not just economically but mostly influentialy, Chinese power plants power Europe, Chinese owned ports now dot a line from Europe to China, half of Australia is in there ownership and Chinese troops are stationed at many of those ports.

Where the hell are you getting this from? There seems to be a real confusion as to the definition of "Chinese power plant". There are three major players in the energy generation space, the people that build heavy power plants. General Electric (US), Siemens (EU), and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (JP). Chinese energy manufacturers have a market share of less than 1% in new unit installation, because they have no heavy turbines on the market. Without turbines, the only major power generation available is Solar... which is mostly French made. These plants are "Chinese" because Chinese companies do hold ownership share in the utility companies buying them, however they are legally barred from holding controlling majorities, and these stakes are rarely profitable.

The stuff about the ports is a similar misconception. China has been aggressive at expanding their positions in international ports, but those ports are by no means solely Chinese. The US and EU have far larger positions in almost all of those ports.

Half of Africa bows to Chinese investment, there hook's are well embedded in South America, Greece who sold a port to China and takes its money vetoed the EUs annual reports into Chinese human rights violations.

Except for the Greece part, this is all just rhetoric. "Bows" is not a provable status. China invests heavily into developing economies, and gets extremely broad deference from those governments in return. It is morally, diplomatically, and strategically problematic, but it is again scarcely a Chinese exclusive issue. Individual western companies do exactly the same thing, and it is generally the same industries. If a western mining company wants to develop a new resource in Tanzania, it will follow almost the exact same tactics as a chinese mining company. The difference is that the Chinese one is a state owned, and the entire operation is a lot more coordinated. That is a non-trivial difference, but the principles are all the same.

China already has more global influance than the USA. All that remains is to convert that into economic and military domination.

This isn't me being happy about that, this is me just pointing it out, you can check each of those things if you want, its all true.

Only most of it isn't "True" it is vague generalizations of observations you don't really understand. There are grains of truth there, but it isn't really anything like what you are pretending it is. "Global influence" is a vague term, and in any measureable way, China still has far less then the US. It has certainly closed the gap in the last 4 years, because the US is essentially wearing its underwear as a hat, and throwing its feces at people right now.

China has a LOT of problems ahead of it, and it is constantly overstating the strength of its position, because that is what the regime needs to survive. So they flood the internet and media with a bunch of people pretending their ascendancy is inevitable. Which it isn't. It is certainly possible, but their economy and regime are both far more fragile then they pretend. While they have a lot of money to throw around, they have no ideological friends at all. China is fundamentally nationalist, its primary position is Chinese supremacy, and unsurprisingly that isn't an appealing message to anyone that isn't Chinese. They have a lot of stooges, but no significant allies. Even more importantly, their rivals are extremely strong, and fairly unified. India hates them, Japan really hates them, Europe distrusts them, America dislikes them, and Russia is constantly tries to exploit them. So they might manage to gain a lot of influence in Angola and Suriname, but that isn't much of a base for international support, particularly since they are generally despised in those countries as well, and only tolerated while there are paying.

America is at a crucial point, that will define the next 100 years of global power, this next election in America is THE most important election in the world in the last 100 years, if America fails to look outward and check china's growing influance, China will start to strangle America economically in the comming decades and it will be too late for America to do anything about it.

Mark my words well.

Yeah, yeah. They aren't particularly original words, and China isn't going to be strangling anyone. China has no path to a US style global hegemony. While it is likely push its way into the same tier as the US, it is more likely to be a return to a Great Powers system, rather then the single Superpower. China might be the largest economy someday (or it might not), but India and Indonesia will likely keep pace, and the EU and US will remain powerful. It isn't a winner take all system.

[Milchshake]

Fine... spent... better? lol

Better!

I also typed that as I'm installing Skyrim <again>.

On this playthrough. I'm going to roleplay as a witch, who is kink-positive and into worker's rights.

Watch out Jarls... my tagline is, "Dragon Shout if you're horny for communism!"

[Breccia]

I also typed that as I'm installing Skyrim <again>.

Friends don't let friends uninstall Skyrim. I'm worried about you, smoothskin.

On topic: the economy added 1.8 million jobs, which is higher than the 1.2 million people who filed for unemployment, which seems at first like a net gain.

And this is still recovery-based news, and good to see.

However, the problem we see now is that the jobs being lost and the jobs being created aren't lining up.

The number of people receiving some form of unemployment insurance from the government as of July 18 rose to 32.1 million, up by 1.3 million from the previous week.

That's because fewer people are applying for traditional unemployment benefits, and more are moving to extended unemployment programs like the Pandemic Emergency Unemployment Compensation program and the Short-Term Compensation program.

While less than 90,000 people had qualified for these extended programs as of the week ending April 11, there were 1.5 million recipients for the week ending July 18.

That number nearly matched the total number of people claiming benefits in all unemployment programs during the comparable week in 2019.
Why it maters: "There are 14 million more unemployed workers than job openings," EPI senior economist Heidi Shierholz says.

The coronavirus pandemic has caused a "reallocation shock," economists at the Chicago Fed write in a new blog, and that could increase unemployment by up to 4 percentage points and keep it elevated for two to three years.

"Because the pandemic has had disproportionate effects on different industries, it may lead to a reshuffling of workers across those industries."

We've seen plenty of data that low-wage workers were disproportionately fired, furloughed, or otherwise let go. And some industries are doing better than others. And while, in theory, low-wage jobs being destroyed and higher-wage jobs being created is a good thing, (a) it's not at the same pace and (b) you still need to be qualified.

That "add four percent" above sounds pretty damned intimidating too. And both PPP funds and unemployment bonuses run out in...um...now, basically. Trump and the Democrats are both apparently stuck on something in their own relief bills they refuse to budge on (pretty sure it's the $600 for Pelosi and Trump might want that FBI building, but I doubt that's the red line, my guess is payroll tax cut) so there's no evidence it'll return.