Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[cubby]

Would it have, though? Nothing in this would likely have done anything to change Trump's response to this pandemic, which means it likely would have had little to no effect on the actions of the Cult of Trump.

Remember, February 7th was TWO FRICKING DAYS after Trump's impeachment vote. If people weren't swayed at that time by the impeachment findings and vote, then this quote would have done absolutely nothing to change anybody's mind, especially since there had been 0 deaths in the US at that point.

The reason these quotes have such an impact right now is largely because of what we know now, which we didn't know back then. It's also a testament to how much 7 months of a pandemic can wipe away the memory of a presidential impeachment. Had this quote come out back then, then the talking points would have been long-established by the time the full impact of the lie was felt, and the public wouldn't be as moved by them anymore.

It's a sad, but true, commentary on the attention span of the public at large.

Agreed - these quotes might not have even made a single news cycle given what we going on in February, @Benggaul. Now, with audio proof, they are yuge. Knowing now that Trump has been lying the entire time, KNOWING, with proof, just pins more deaths on his shoulders. The impact and timing of the book are solid.

I will never, ever, to my last day, understand why Trump (and especially his fascist followers) didn't see the pandemic for what it could have been - a perfect opportunity for a power hungry control nut job to take over. We needed a heavy hand. We needed an Executive to drop the hammer, lock us down, and take control. And Trump took a hard pass on that golden opportunity. It's utterly baffling to me, even now.

[jonnysensible]

https://twitter.com/TomCottonAR/stat...86807692124160

this fucking guy

[Benggaul]

Agreed - these quotes might not have even made a single news cycle given what we going on in February, @Benggaul. Now, with audio proof, they are yuge. Knowing now that Trump has been lying the entire time, KNOWING, with proof, just pins more deaths on his shoulders. The impact and timing of the book are solid.

I will never, ever, to my last day, understand why Trump (and especially his fascist followers) didn't see the pandemic for what it could have been - a perfect opportunity for a power hungry control nut job to take over. We needed a heavy hand. We needed an Executive to drop the hammer, lock us down, and take control. And Trump took a hard pass on that golden opportunity. It's utterly baffling to me, even now.

I'll repeat myself since apparently y'all are having problems understanding:

It does not make ONNNNNE bit of fucking difference now. It does not change OOOOOOONE thing. It doesn't make Trump supporters suddenly think they were wrong all along and it certainly doesn't change the stance of those who already fucking hated his guts. If the election were held yesterday the results would have been exactly the same as if the election were held today. Politically, this is a push. It will sell Woodward some books and it'll be off the front pages by tomorrow.

What I am SAYING is that had this information been made public back in February more people would fucking be alive now. Even people who support Trump would have at least heard him say "I'm trying to keep people from panicking" and would have been more likely to take precautions because they'd think "Oh it's bad but he doesn't want us to worry! How sweet of him!". Instead he chose to call it a fucking hoax, his moronic supporters followed suit and the TRUMP VIRUS has spread all over the US.

Don't fucking tell me it means more now than it would have then, because that is absolute horseshit.

[DingDongKing]

I don’t think it’ll mean anything at all. It’s awful, and will strengthen the resolve of Democrats to vote (I hope), but Republicans don’t give a damn. They want power, if people die, doesn’t matter. It’s just collateral damage in the quest for their America.

[Bodakane]

Trump didn’t downplay the virus....he called it a fucking hoax for personal political gain. Don’t let him off the goddamned hook by saying he downplayed it.

200,000 dead so he can continue milking the American people.

He deserves a firing squad and is every bit as evil as Putin.

[Breccia]

This whole ‘didn’t want to create hysteria’ thing is so so fucking ironic for the party that has been fear mongering for decades

That, and it's flat-out false.

Trupm could have taken action, but did not.

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this fucking guy

Wait wait, I speak fluent Republican.

"Help help, I'm falling in the polls and need single-issue voters!"

[cubby]

I'll repeat myself since apparently y'all are having problems understanding:

It does not make ONNNNNE bit of fucking difference now. It does not change OOOOOOONE thing. It doesn't make Trump supporters suddenly think they were wrong all along and it certainly doesn't change the stance of those who already fucking hated his guts. If the election were held yesterday the results would have been exactly the same as if the election were held today. Politically, this is a push. It will sell Woodward some books and it'll be off the front pages by tomorrow.

What I am SAYING is that had this information been made public back in February more people would fucking be alive now. Even people who support Trump would have at least heard him say "I'm trying to keep people from panicking" and would have been more likely to take precautions because they'd think "Oh it's bad but he doesn't want us to worry! How sweet of him!". Instead he chose to call it a fucking hoax, his moronic supporters followed suit and the TRUMP VIRUS has spread all over the US.

Don't fucking tell me it means more now than it would have then, because that is absolute horseshit.

There's no need to get snippy - we're disagreeing here, that is all. We heard you, and you are hearing us. That's how conversations go. We simply disagree.

I do not think this would have made an iota of difference back in February, no saved lives, nothing. The people who follow Trump will continue to do so, and revelations forced on Trump by the revealing of a conversation wouldn't change a thing. Trump would still be calling it a hoax, and would have claimed the Woodward quote was fake news, and the people who ignored science back in February would have still done so.

It would have had next to zero affect back then, swept under the news cycle and forgotten in a week. That's how Trump operates. What, in your opinion, would have been the BIG MOMENT that the Woodward recordings would have brought on? Your making assumptions that have no basis in fact for your position.

Now, however, we can all see that not only is Trump a serial liar, those lies and his abuse of power and lack of leadership cost more lives than it should have. It absolutely has more impact now, then it ever would back when this was starting up.

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I don’t think it’ll mean anything at all. It’s awful, and will strengthen the resolve of Democrats to vote (I hope), but Republicans don’t give a damn. They want power, if people die, doesn’t matter. It’s just collateral damage in the quest for their America.

It probably won't sway too many voters, for sure. And the Trumphadis (thank you @Skroe) will never back down from their support of him, regardless of realities. However, it's another pillar for Biden and the country to push on Trump, to keep him on the ropes and always in damage control, while Biden continues to gather up support and votes.

Trump is fighting a litany of fights, from all corners. Military disparaging comments. Virus threat lies. Cohen's revelations (for whatever they are worth). People are literally coming out of the woodwork daily.

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And the Woodward revelations now allow Biden to clearly, with recorded evidence and a simple message, to call Trump a liar. Using the word literally. I believe this is the first time Biden has done this, and he can beat on the drum, with clarity, until Nov 3.

[Benggaul]

"It means more now because NOW, surely, people realize Trump is a liar...because apparently the last 40 years of hard, recorded evidence haven't been proof enough."

Sure thing Spanky.

Me? I'd rather the audio proof had been made available early and saved lives as opposed to using "200k dead!" as further proof of something that was already proven. Those people might have had a chance back at the beginning of the year. Now they most certainly don't.

For my part, I'll stop here. Ya'll can go on about it some more if you like, but I'm done. Besides, I haven't heard from the usual forum patrol if this is on the list of Trump horrors we're allowed to be enraged about.

[Paranoid Android]

WH officials warned Trump that talking to Bob Woodward was a bad idea, we are told. But Trump went forward with the hours of interviews anyway. A source, who has direct knowledge of discussions, said Trump and Kushner thought Woodward interviews were a good idea.

https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/13...919970817?s=19

Answers my question why Trump chose to be interviewed by an actual journalist. Jared Kushner.

Well in the bad and worse of having a crime family run the country is you it is rare your son-in-law might also have intelligence.

[jonnysensible]

hows the fires going? anyone getting fucked up on here?

[Benggaul]

hows the fires going? anyone getting fucked up on here?

Bah, if they are it's their own fault for not raking enough forests!
/s

But in all seriousness I hope everyone is safe. Good luck out there.

[Pannonian]

https://www.justsecurity.org/72339/q...ult-rebranded/



Huh, so the Q nonsense is just a really bad nazi rebrand. No wonder it seemed so utterly dumb.

The sinister thing is, it is even older than the Nazis. Nazism was built on it (together with other insane stuff).

[Edge-]

Man, I'm glad that Woodward got this shit on tape and all but...

There's definitely an ethical question that comes up resulting from this.

Woodward has known since the beginning that Trump was demonstrably lying and misleading the public. He had the recordings to prove it. Yet he did nothing with it, sitting on the tapes until it came time to promote his next book and after nearly 200,000 Americans have died due to the virus.

He could have said something. He could have shared the recordings. He did nothing.

[DingDongKing]

Man, I'm glad that Woodward got this shit on tape and all but...

There's definitely an ethical question that comes up resulting from this.

Woodward has known since the beginning that Trump was demonstrably lying and misleading the public. He had the recordings to prove it. Yet he did nothing with it, sitting on the tapes until it came time to promote his next book and after nearly 200,000 Americans have died due to the virus.

He could have said something. He could have shared the recordings. He did nothing.

It's also possible that the information was embargo'd. Which isn't uncommon when it comes to such political content, though makes it weird that the White House probably reviewed this book and felt it was okay to release so close to the election. What a strange world we live in.

[jonnysensible]

Man, I'm glad that Woodward got this shit on tape and all but...

There's definitely an ethical question that comes up resulting from this.

Woodward has known since the beginning that Trump was demonstrably lying and misleading the public. He had the recordings to prove it. Yet he did nothing with it, sitting on the tapes until it came time to promote his next book and after nearly 200,000 Americans have died due to the virus.

He could have said something. He could have shared the recordings. He did nothing.

aye but how does this change anything, trump and his allies say fake news or old news and his base could give a fuck.

[PhaelixWW]

Man, I'm glad that Woodward got this shit on tape and all but...

There's definitely an ethical question that comes up resulting from this.

Woodward has known since the beginning that Trump was demonstrably lying and misleading the public. He had the recordings to prove it. Yet he did nothing with it, sitting on the tapes until it came time to promote his next book and after nearly 200,000 Americans have died due to the virus.

He could have said something. He could have shared the recordings. He did nothing.

What exactly do you imagine would have been the result of releasing those recordings back in March? How do you imagine things going differently?

[Edge-]

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/08/91054...er-against-him

The CEO appointed by President Trump to lead the federal agency that oversees the Voice of America and other U.S.-funded international broadcasters has made strict protocols for scrutinizing job candidates a hallmark of his brief tenure there. CEO Michael Pack suspended a slew of senior executives at the U.S. Agency for Global Media and stopped routinely renewing visas for foreign employees over hiring protocols, claiming the executives' lapses threatened national security.

In June, Pack hired a lawyer with no background in news to investigate his agency's coverage for potential anti-Trump bias, in a way that appears to violate Voice of America's legal protections of journalistic independence. That investigative attorney has a potentially problematic record himself: he remains under a court order to stay away from his father and to surrender all firearms due to a complaint that he made detailed death threats against his father.

These details appear in publicly available documents from a court proceeding held just 35 miles up the Baltimore-Washington Parkway from USAGM's headquarters. It raises questions about how rigorously the security-minded CEO had vetted his own newly hired legal counselor. And this is not an ancient episode: the court order was filed in early February. It remains in effect through February 2021.

Only.

The.

Best.

People.

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What exactly do you imagine would have been the result of releasing those recordings back in March? How do you imagine things going differently?

I dunno. But maybe it would have put more pressure on Trump to "DO SOMETHING". I don't think it would have made everything magically better by any means, but I'm hoping that it would have at least made things less awful and they actually turned out to be.

[beanman12345]

Saw Kennedy on CNN being interviewed earlier, standard bs "didn't hear it" so they played it directly for him, he said "actions speak louder then words" was thrown back "he was having rallies with thousands of people, 5000 dead in your state" he responds, "trumps been great!"

Wasn't even surprised anymore, fully expected this type of exchange now.

Louisiana Trump Sycophant Senator for our foreign friends who don't know who Kennedy is.

[PhaelixWW]

I dunno. But maybe it would have put more pressure on Trump to "DO SOMETHING". I don't think it would have made everything magically better by any means, but I'm hoping that it would have at least made things less awful and they actually turned out to be.

Okay, tell me this: based on previous experience, when faced with a revelation of his wrongdoing, is Trump more likely to...

A) Admit his culpability and change his stance/action, or...

B) Call it fake news and/or double down on his original course of action in order to avoid having to admit he was wrong.

I have absolutely zero belief that anything other than B would happen. On the contrary, I believe that the Woodward information is only useful insofar as it might change the opinion of the people who are undecided about their view of Trump, and as such, it's far more effective now than had the same information been released back in March.

I'm open to a different interpretation of what you think might have happened, though.

[Edge-]

Okay, tell me this: based on previous experience, when faced with a revelation of his wrongdoing, is Trump more likely to...

A) Admit his culpability and change his stance/action, or...

B) Call it fake news and/or double down on his original course of action in order to avoid having to admit he was wrong.

I have absolutely zero belief that anything other than B would happen. On the contrary, I believe that the Woodward information is only useful insofar as it might change the opinion of the people who are undecided about their view of Trump, and as such, it's far more effective now than had the same information been released back in March.

I'm open to a different interpretation of what you think might have happened, though.

I just see things like the massive backlash to the closure of Stars & Stripes and how that got Trump, who proposed cutting that budget back in February, to reverse course the same day.

I think he'd very likely do B as well, but I'd hope that with enough external pressure it would have at least spurred some kind of actual action beyond calling it a "Democratic hoax".