Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Templar 331]

Remember folks, Trump is so attached to his money that he will attempt to pay off bills by giving stuff away to people he owes things to.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...c0b10d3d3b76bb



I wonder if he named him Mr. Ed.

I thought it said "house" for a second there, but that would have made a little too much sense and had to read it again. What's sad is I don't doubt he paid $5 million for it expecting to make more, but more than likely it's another one of those "the value is what I feel like it should be" kind of things.

[Canpinter]

You know, I think he still thinks Hoover is in control of the FBI as much as he brings up going through Melania's clothes. Maybe he is afraid zombie Hoover was going to tell the agents to steal him some clothes so he can wear them.

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Remember folks, Trump is so attached to his money that he will attempt to pay off bills by giving stuff away to people he owes things to.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...c0b10d3d3b76bb



I wonder if he named him Mr. Ed.

Bet you 20 bucks it was just Don Jr in the back half of a Halloween costume.

[Poopymonster]

Bet you 20 bucks it was just Don Jr in the back half of a Halloween costume.

That would cost $130000 in Trumpland.

[Breccia]

Yet another "defense" of Trump has been squashed, thanks again to Trump's own words and actions. In this case, lack thereof.

One of the many conflicting excuses Trump gave was "They were for my Presidential Library". He claimed he filed that in court, but I'm skeptical.

So here's the thing: name one time, before August of this year, Trump even once mentioned his future library.

1) Because that's their job, NARA set up the site Jan 20, 2021. You'll notice it's a dot-gov site.

The Trump Presidential Library is part of the Presidential Libraries system administered by the National Archives and Records Administration, a federal agency.

Oh, dear. That's bad news for Trump.

Politico points out that Trump probably won't make one, unless it's private, Jan 22, 2021. And WaPo basically told him he shouldn't do either, but definitely not the private one.

None of this, however, means that Trump could actually create a presidential center similar to the one planned for former president Barack Obama, or those dedicated to former presidents George W. Bush and Bill Clinton. As Anthony Clark, author of “The Last Campaign: How Presidents Rewrite History, Run for Posterity & Enshrine Their Legacies,” wrote recently in Politico, it is unlikely that Trump has the focus, administrative savvy and financial resources to execute a presidential center: “Presidential libraries are complicated. And if you understand how they work — and how Trump himself works — it’s nearly impossible to imagine him actually pulling it off,” Clark writes.

But that doesn’t mean that Trump won’t try and that, in trying, cause further damage to the country. That is why Congress should use this moment to reconsider the legislation that helped create and shape the presidential libraries now administered by the National Archives, not just to prevent Trump from perpetrating one last, giant grift, but to reform the system so it serves the country better. This is long overdue, and would need to be done even if Trump weren’t trying to raise $2 billion for a Trump center. But his intention to do so makes this urgent, even an issue of national security.

The case of Trump is exceptional by any standard, and he should be afforded no discretion over his records or any privilege to extend the amount of time before the public can see them. Trump’s 2017 requirement that the National Archives withhold access to his materials until 2033 should be abrogated, and Congress should begin an extraordinary effort to recover as much of his communications legacy as possible, even material that wasn’t deemed “presidential.” Trump’s presidency mixed public and private interests in a way that was unprecedented in modern American history, so his decisions on these matters can’t be trusted. He incited an insurrection, and many of the people who may have participated in that, including members of Congress, are still actively engaged in public life. The need to know who they are and what they did isn’t just a matter for the FBI, the Justice Department and prosecutors.

As Clark points out, Congress has intervened before in an exceptional presidential records case. A little more than four months after Richard Nixon was forced from office in disgrace, President Gerald Ford signed the Presidential Recordings and Materials Preservation Act, which gave the government direct custody over Nixon’s records to prevent their destruction. It wasn’t just that Congress didn’t trust Nixon, it also felt “the need to provide the public with the full truth, at the earliest reasonable date, of the abuses of governmental power popularly identified under the generic term ‘Watergate,’ ” according to the law’s text.

That WaPo article was published Jan 28, 2021. And, wow, the author has to feel like Nostradamus right now.

In other words, it was common knowledge that, no, you can't steal things from the WH to make your own private library.

2) By April 2021, Trump had already shown that he wasn't interested in making a library.

3) And there were rumors it was going to be a theme park.

4) Palm Beach didn't want one.

But you know what I didn't find? Any statement from Trump, other than early vagueness about $2 billion that, HAHAHAHA, no he doesn't have $2 billion, and those stopped Jan 28th. Since then, until the FBI came calling, he's said either zero or essentially zero.

Well, not in public. From the NBC News article I cited first:

Advisers describe discussions about a Trump presidential library over the years as off and on. One ex-adviser recalled looking at Florida property maps during meetings in the small White House dining room near the Oval Office. A longtime Trump adviser said that Trump allies were “scouting locations” in the Palm Beach area, home to Mar-a-Lago. (A joke among those involved in the planning was that they would put the library in Greenland, the island that Trump entertained buying midway through his term, one person close to him said.)

Another person close to Trump who spoke briefly to him about a library earlier this year said, “He didn’t seem terribly interested. He wasn’t like, ‘I gotta get my library going.’ He’s more interested in being president again.”

One Trump confidant, who, as was the case with others, spoke on condition of anonymity to speak more freely, added: “Presidential libraries are for ex-presidents. He’s a next president. He’s coming back.”

But other than those people who were not just confidential, but possibly joking, Trump has said nothing on the subject since losing the election. Did I miss it? Maybe one of our local Trump supporters can find where Trump said, in public, he was still going to make a library, because other than a few knockoff tweets after the FBI kicked down his door, he's said nothing for 18 months at least that I can find.

There are so many reasons why the "library" excuse is fat orange bullshit.

One, if he was going to win again, why didn't he just leave everything behind? He would be able to get it later, right?

Two, let's do the math. Presidential records get sealed for five years minimum. Right now, Trump won't see them published until 2026 at the earliest. If he had won in 2020, that'd push back to 2029. If he wins in 2024, God help us, but if the country survives somehow, then 2033.

When he'd be 88.

The best way to get his legacy into a library, while he's still alive to see it, was to lose the election and start right away. Well, he's halfway there.

Three, if you really wanted to make a library, why were 10,000 random things thrown into boxes in a basement for 18 months?

Four, the total number of boxes handed over seems to be in the 45-range. I doubt every single one of them was 100% filled to the brim, but let's pretend it was. How big of a library can you make with 45 banker's boxes full of materials? I hypothesize "not a very bigly one, not very yuge".

And of course, the answer to "can you just take WH documents to use in your own private display case?" remains "no, that shit's illegal". The fact that Trump may, at one point within a week after losing the election fairly and legally, suggested having a $2 billion library, doesn't change that. He's free to build whatever building he wants, put whatever books he can buy in it, and therefore ensure that the items only show him in a positive viewpoint. But he can't take government property to do that. At best, he could have asked them to lend him the material, which in turn, brings up

Trump lawyer compares keeping classified documents at Mar-a-Lago to not returning 'an overdue library book'

Oddly enough, if Trump had done things the correct way, this statement would have a point. The National Archives does lend stuff out to former Presidents like Obama. Loan. Libraries don't give you books to keep forever. If you get a library membership, check a book out, and don't bring it back on time, yes, that's against the rules and a minor fine. If you just take the book and leave, that's still stealing.

There is nothing useful for Trump that backs up the Sudden Library defense, other than as listed, maybe a couple of people scouting locations one weekend. And, even if he was really making a library, the materials the FBI returned to their rightful owner wouldn't have been his.

EDIT: Adding a bit more, because paywall.

Robert Clark, a former National Archives official at the Franklin D. Roosevelt library in Hyde Park, New York, said every president was entitled to build a library.

“But there is a process. He can’t just store the stuff in his garage until the library gets built. That’s not how it works,” Clark said.

One of Trump’s worries was that a library would end up showing material that painted him in an unflattering light, said a former senior White House official. He wanted some control over what the library would contain, the source added.

Modern presidential libraries have two main components: a trove of presidential records overseen by the National Archives, and a museum open to the public. Ex-presidents aren’t supposed to control the records that the library collects.

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Second judge in the case: I authorize a "special master".

DOJ: Sure, whatever. We already separated it out for you. Take your time, we weren't going to arrest him until after the 2022 election anyhow.

EDIT: Oh sorry, I should add, the judge specifically cites that Trump told the court the FBI took medical records, and would like those back please. I mean, if Trump shoved random shit all in the same box, that's on him, but yes, he should probably get those back.

The judge also called out Trump's childish court filings, but basically said "just because the motion was written like a fourth grader on a sugar rush doesn't automatically kick it out of court".

Trump is getting some of what he asked for, but this isn't going to help him. The stuff he stole isn't coming back, and it's still objective evidence of his crimes. Yes, he should get his passport(s) and medical bills back, I think we're all agreed on that. This will just get them back sooner.

EDIT EDIT: The judge goes onto suggest the filter team's efficiency is questionable, because some of the FBI saw potentially privileged material before the filter team did. Again, that's Trump's fault for throwing everything together. It really reads like the judge was searching for reasons to grant this completely inconsequential request, possibly because it was inconsequential, and she didn't want even the suggestion of malice involved.

[CastletonSnob]

IMO, Democrats should be investigating DeVos, the Thomases, and the Kochs. Hold these people accountable for what they've done.

[Breccia]

IMO, Democrats should be investigating DeVos, the Thomases, and the Kochs.

There needs to be probable cause of a crime. I don't think we've seen that.

[Fugus]

There needs to be probable cause of a crime. I don't think we've seen that.

With Thomas I thought we did with his wife taking money from people while he was seeing their cases, that is a massive conflict of interest that also brings up the potential for bribery plus his wife at the terrorist attack plus the leaks we have since.

But still waiting on the perjury charges on kavanaugh along with the investigation for his mysterious debt repayment during his confirmation and the sexual assault accusations. So not holding my breath

[Paranoid Android]

Guess It's good to be president.

So the Judge appointed by Trump, vetted of course by Federalist Society grants Trump the Special Master. Many threads on this but also talk this opens up being able to muddy future criminal investigations, mainly white collar., The judge telling the DOJ they have to stop cold turkey on reviewing documents, any forensics is unprecedented.

The biggest problem for Trump is finding a special master now with Top Secret clearance.

[DarkTZeratul]

With Thomas I thought we did with his wife taking money from people while he was seeing their cases, that is a massive conflict of interest that also brings up the potential for bribery plus his wife at the terrorist attack plus the leaks we have since.

It's unethical as fuck and in any sane Congress easily grounds for impeachment, but it'd be a hard uphill battle trying to argue that an actual crime took place.

[Endus]

It's unethical as fuck and in any sane Congress easily grounds for impeachment, but it'd be a hard uphill battle trying to argue that an actual crime took place.

This is particularly true because SCOTUS judges are not actually beholden to any code of ethics whatsoever.

[postman1782]

Right now, the morons on the right that haven't been banned from Twitter, are now saying that all of the folders that the FBI found were empty, even though, the FBI listed specifically only 40 some odd were empty.

https://twitter.com/TimRunsHisMouth/...70450534797312

I don't know who this fucking moron is, but apparently he is a dipshit from the Washington Times, but this is what the fucktards on Tiktok are now pushing. That none of the folders had anything in them and that Trump isn't guilty because of it. People like Donald's stupid son Junior are pushing this bullshit that he isn't guilty, because less than 1/4 of the folders found the 8th of August were empty.

[Kaleredar]

Right now, the morons on the right that haven't been banned from Twitter, are now saying that all of the folders that the FBI found were empty, even though, the FBI listed specifically only 40 some odd were empty.

https://twitter.com/TimRunsHisMouth/...70450534797312

I don't know who this fucking moron is, but apparently he is a dipshit from the Washington Times, but this is what the fucktards on Tiktok are now pushing. That none of the folders had anything in them and that Trump isn't guilty because of it. People like Donald's stupid son Junior are pushing this bullshit that he isn't guilty, because less than 1/4 of the folders found the 8th of August were empty.

fortunately what dumbass reporters and people on tiktok say aren't relevant in a court of law.

[postman1782]

fortunately what dumbass reporters and people on tiktok say aren't relevant in a court of law.

When you have right wingers believing it, no matter the evidence, they will do anything they can to defend him, even lie, and with those lies, come political attacks and terrorist attacks.

[Edge-]

Right now, the morons on the right that haven't been banned from Twitter, are now saying that all of the folders that the FBI found were empty, even though, the FBI listed specifically only 40 some odd were empty.

https://twitter.com/TimRunsHisMouth/...70450534797312

I don't know who this fucking moron is, but apparently he is a dipshit from the Washington Times, but this is what the fucktards on Tiktok are now pushing. That none of the folders had anything in them and that Trump isn't guilty because of it. People like Donald's stupid son Junior are pushing this bullshit that he isn't guilty, because less than 1/4 of the folders found the 8th of August were empty.

Yes, I'm sure a judge would sign off on a warrant for...empty folders.

After the Archives requested the classified documents back.

Also after a subpoena for the still missing documents.

That's it, though. A Trump-nominated judge just agreed to a search of the residence for the former POTUS for some empty folders.

[postman1782]

Yes, I'm sure a judge would sign off on a warrant for...empty folders.

After the Archives requested the classified documents back.

Also after a subpoena for the still missing documents.

That's it, though. A Trump-nominated judge just agreed to a search of the residence for the former POTUS for some empty folders.

Exactly, whoever ratted on him, had to have something substantial, other than empty folders to get the warrant. I guarantee there was pictures or video or something that was used.

[gondrin]

Well, according to the judge who assigned the Special Master, they cite "reputational harm" as the reason. Forgetting that the reputation that Trump has, outside of his extremist base, is of a big, whiney thin-skinned bitch. That has always been a thing. He even admits to it on an old CNN interview about the Trump Casino.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...23072969385a37

Judge cites 'reputational harm' to Trump in ordering a Mar-a-Lago special master and pause in probe

Afederal judge who ordered the appointment of a special master to review documents seized in last month's search of Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago beach club, repeatedly expressed concerns about the unprecedented nature of the law enforcement action, indicating that the ruling was necessary to promote a perception of fairness.

U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon ruled that Trump's position as a former president meant the seizure of documents carried a stigma "in a league of its own" and that any future indictment "would result in reputational harm."

Cannon, who also called for a temporary halt to the federal inquiry until a document review is completed, asked Trump's team and the government to submit potential candidates for the special master role by Sept. 9.

The decision raised several issues for the investigation into potential violations of the Espionage Act or obstruction of justice:

Although Cannon's decision came nearly a month after the Aug. 8 search, she voiced concern about maintaining a "perception of fairness."

Cannon ruled that Trump's position as a former president meant the seizure of documents carried a stigma and that any indictment "would result in reputational harm of a decidedly different order of magnitude."

Cannon's concern echoed Russia special counsel Robert Mueller's reasoning in refusing to decide whether to charge Trump with obstruction of justice in that investigation because he wouldn't have had a forum to defend himself.

National security lawyers said defense lawyers would be "salivating" over the decision because it favored defendants.

Will the Justice Department appeal? A department spokesman said the government is reviewing the decision.

Here is what we know about Cannon's ruling and its implications:

Federal judge cites need to promote 'fairness' in DOJ investigation
Throughout her ruling Cannon acknowledged the high profile nature of the investigation and the intense "public interest" as factors in her decision.

“Plaintiff ultimately may not be entitled to return of much of the seized property or to prevail on his anticipated claims of privilege,” the judge wrote. “That inquiry remains for another day. For now, the circumstances surrounding the seizure in this case and the associated need for adequate procedural safeguards are sufficiently compelling to at least get Plaintiff past the courthouse doors.

“A commitment to the appearance of fairness is critical, now more than ever,” she said.

For the same reasons, Cannon determined that the government’s own team of screeners, which sorted the documents that may represent privileged attorney communications, was not adequate in a case of this magnitude.

The judge said Trump’s team had established the possibility of “irreparable injury,” saying there was a risk that the government’s team “will not adequately safeguard Plaintiff’s privileged and personal materials in terms of exposure to either the Investigative Team or the media.”

"As a function of Plaintiff’s former position as President of the United States, the stigma associated with the subject seizure is in a league of its own," Cannon wrote. "A future indictment, based to any degree on property that ought to be returned, would result in reputational harm of a decidedly different order of magnitude."

“Plaintiff has shown, all in all, that the public and private interests at stake support a temporary enjoinment on the use of the seized materials for investigative purposes, without impacting the Government’s ongoing national security review,” Cannon wrote. “As Plaintiff articulated at the hearing, the investigation and treatment of a former president is of unique interest to the general public, and the country is served best by an orderly process that promotes the interest and perception of fairness.”

Legal experts said the decision seemed "very sympathetic" to Trump. Carl Tobias, a law professor at the University of Richmond, said he expects the Justice Department to appeal the ruling, but that the litigation will "greatly delay" the investigation.

"I think that the judge seems very sympathetic to Trump in nearly all of her rulings and much more so than for other defendants similarly situated," Tobias said. "She also seems to overstate the unprecedented nature of the case and understate the unprecedented nature of Trump’s behavior with national security and national defense documents.

Bradley Moss, a national-security lawyer, said the ruling seems written for Trump alone.

"This is Cannon making a special exception to the case law just for Trump," Moss said in a tweet. "Criminal defense lawyers will be salivating over this analysis but every other judge will reject using it because this is meant for Trump and Trump alone."

Renato Mariotti, a former federal prosecutor, agreed that defense lawyers would cite Cannon’s decision because it represented a “significant” shift to defendants.

“Every defendant suffers massive reputational damage from an indictment," Mariotti said in a tweet. "I agree that we will cite this case law in other criminal cases, because if you take it at face value, it is a significant shift to the defense."

David Weinstein, a former federal prosecutor, said the judge appeared to be moved by an intent to “ensure a level playing field and the appearance of integrity within the ongoing investigation.”

“This is a temporary win for the former President and one that, after the review by the special master, could turn into an overall loss.,” Weinstein said.

“While this also puts a pause on the use of this information in DOJ’s ongoing criminal investigation, it does not stop the evaluation of other evidence by the DOJ or their presentation to the grand jury,” he said. “Realistically, given the upcoming elections in November and DOJ’s internal policy on announcing indictments within 60 days of an election, it was unlikely that any significant charges related to this search would have been released before the end of November.”

The Justice Department did not immediately signal whether it would appeal the ruling.

"The United States is examining the opinion and will consider appropriate next steps in the ongoing litigation.” Justice spokesman Anthony Coley said.

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Bet you 20 bucks it was just Don Jr in the back half of a Halloween costume.

Well, Don Jr is a horses ass a lot of the time. However, I'll go with Eric.

[Paranoid Android]

Well, according to the judge who assigned the Special Master, they cite "reputational harm" as the reason. Forgetting that the reputation that Trump has, outside of his extremist base, is of a big, whiney thin-skinned bitch. That has always been a thing. He even admits to it on an old CNN interview about the Trump Casino.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...23072969385a37



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Well, Don Jr is a horses ass a lot of the time. However, I'll go with Eric.

In my short post the judge really is a hack. A Trump appointee with Federalist stamp. Basically tried to make the argument for Trump's incompetent lawyers.

From what I read it's once more unprecedented for giving a President immunity. The DOJ has to stop everything. That's nuts. Now they have to find special master who has classified clearance (this could be frightening). Most say a delay at best, but always have caution.

[Poopymonster]

In my short post the judge really is a hack. A Trump appointee with Federalist stamp. Basically tried to make the argument for Trump's incompetent lawyers.

From what I read it's once more unprecedented for giving a President immunity. The DOJ has to stop everything. That's nuts. Now they have to find special master who has classified clearance (this could be frightening). Most say a delay at best, but always have caution.

I'm sure Mueller would be fine to jump in. After all, did he not " I DID NOTHING WRONG THEY FOUND NOTHING WRONG WITCH HUNT NO COLLUSION INNOCENT BUT HER EMAILS I AM BESTEST BOY"?

Sounds like he's be the perfect impartial person to look into it, probably has the clearance to do so also.

[Breccia]

The biggest problem for Trump is finding a special master now with Top Secret clearance.

Indeed, it's worse than that. Both Team Trump and the DoJ have been asked to make a list, by Friday I thinK? The DoJ list will have hundreds of names by (checks watch) four hours ago.

Who will Trump nominate? Seriously, who would he pick, that both has a clearance, and also isn't yet on his hit list? I don't know if the judge is willing to put a direct Trump ally on this, that's grounds for instant appeal, but even if she was, who's left?

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"the ruling was necessary to promote a perception of fairness"

Giving her some credit, I actually believe that. Trump is fucked, but every single lifeline must be thrown, just so the public can see them fail, that's how fucked he is.

The judge must know Executive Privilege only applies on things Trump wasn't allowed to take, and lawyer-client won't be in government files. She's at least seen the list of items if not the items themselves. Even if she wants to abuse her power and help Trump, the best way for that to happen is for Trump to get an appeal, one step closer to SCOTUS. Trump will file regardless, so basically, everything else she does is crossing every T and dotting every I.

[postman1782]

Well, according to the judge who assigned the Special Master, they cite "reputational harm" as the reason. Forgetting that the reputation that Trump has, outside of his extremist base, is of a big, whiney thin-skinned bitch. That has always been a thing. He even admits to it on an old CNN interview about the Trump Casino.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...23072969385a37



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Well, Don Jr is a horses ass a lot of the time. However, I'll go with Eric.

I have a feeling that this will be appealed and should be overturned, because its 100% bullshit.