Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

Has Trump started bitching about the flippers yet?

No, and he won't, for three reasons.

One, Trump is holding out hope yet that they won't turn on him, specifically. Trump could not care less if Eastman, Giuliani, or Kanye goes to jail. Trump cares if Trump goes to jail. As a sociopath, he's unable to project, and while he can still use objective evidence -- such as someone saying something in public -- he has trouble inferring from other things. Trump thinks loyalty to Trump is all that matters, therefore, he assumes everyone agrees until proven otherwise.

Two, Trump is going to be careful on social media.

Judge lashes out at Trump, threatens prison, after apparent breach of gag order

The post, which was spotted Thursday by the pro-democracy news website MeidasTouch, was a duplicate of one posted to Trump's social media site on Oct. 3, and deleted soon after New York Judge Arthur Engoron issued a limited gag order, barring Trump from posting or speaking publicly about the judge's staff.

The campaign replication of the deleted post has since also been removed, but Engoron appeared quite angry Friday.

He asked Trump's lawyers why he shouldn't impose "serious" sanctions, "including financial sanctions" "or possibly imprisoning him."

Trump attorney Christopher Kise apologized and said it was an errant oversight, arguing that it was "truly inadvertent," due to the campaign's "machinery" replicating the post on its website.

Bullshit. There is a zero percent chance Trump's social media is done by auto-running apps or bots. Someone hits "send". Someone who works for Trump, and seeing that post, forwarded it anyhow. This is not about no single raindrop causing the flood, this is about someone pulling the floodgates open, using the giant lever marked "this pulls the floodgates open".

Kise has also used "he hasn't posted anything since" and only got sent to 25,000 people. In a related story, I hear your first murder doesn't count, either, and I only told 25,000 people where the first body was dumped.

"Between Oct. 3 and Oct. 19, there were a little over 114 million visitors to the campaign website. Only 3,701 viewed – they're called unique views – viewed the post. That would include anyone that received the email," Kise said.

"Well, you and I are both becoming more tech savvy," Engoron replied.

Funny story, "unique views" suddenly matters when Trump's actions are criminal, and not when he's bragging about ratings.

And third, going after Powell and Chesebro would immediately be seen as witness tampering. I've seen and very likely posted articles about how Trump was specifically and directly told not to communicate with other witnesses, and we know about the threats on social media is being handled in court.

This action is likely going to come up when Trump appeals his gag order, and more importantly, Engoron seems to have hit the enrage timer. Trump is out of cooldowns.

[Kathranis]

"flipping" as part of a justice system is still a concept that boggles my mind. Getting off the hook for your crimes just for making it easier to convict another criminal shouldn't be possible.

Well, barring witness protection, plea deals still usually come with at least some sort of punishment. Reduced sentencing, or fines and time served.

Obviously the justice system is constructed so that a lot of illegal activity is tacitly legal for those who can afford to pay the fines. There's the famous quote about the two-tier justice system that "wisely" makes it equally illegal to sleep under a bridge for both the rich and poor.

Still, it's a way to get to the ringleaders that actually run the criminal organizations and orchestrate the conspiracies, rather than hitting a brick wall with the soldiers and sacrificial pawns.

[Egomaniac]

"flipping" as part of a justice system is still a concept that boggles my mind. Getting off the hook for your crimes just for making it easier to convict another criminal shouldn't be possible.

Well, you can either have plea deals and have a better chance of convicting the "big fish" at the cost of letting some of the "little fish" avoid full consequences...or you can roll the dice and try and get them all. You'll probably get more of the little fish...but the big fish will be more likely to escape consequences entirely.

[Endus]

"flipping" as part of a justice system is still a concept that boggles my mind. Getting off the hook for your crimes just for making it easier to convict another criminal shouldn't be possible.

It's a tradeoff. If you don't allow for this potential, no underling has any reason to turn on their superiors. You're not going to give them anything for the info, so you can fuck off over there, in their mind.

If you want people to inform on their superiors so you can meaningfully attack the upper levels of a criminal organization, you have to be willing to ease up on the penalties those underlings would otherwise face. So what's more important? Punishing every petty criminal to the fullest extent of the law? Or getting sufficient intelligence and evidence to meaningfully take down the entire criminal organization those petty criminals work for? I think most people agree it's the latter. Hence plea deals exist.

[Edge-]

https://apnews.com/article/donald-tr...b4290001eaf7d1

The chances of anything significant were always slim given that this was an "oversight" and all, so $5K fine for leaving that post up on his site.

We'll see if Trump decides to continue testing the waters or if he forgets about other disparaging remarks he's made but failed to remove.

[The Stormbringer]

https://apnews.com/article/donald-tr...b4290001eaf7d1

The chances of anything significant were always slim given that this was an "oversight" and all, so $5K fine for leaving that post up on his site.

We'll see if Trump decides to continue testing the waters or if he forgets about other disparaging remarks he's made but failed to remove.

Five grand for violating? That's it? They basically just gave him permission to say whatever the hell he wants. He'll be throwing out violations left right and center and getting his cultists to pay for his legal bills.

[zorkuus]

Next time he'll be fined six grand. Hahaa, take that! Owned, then he'll shut up for sure!
It's sad how blatantly spineless and two tiered US courts are.

How many more second chances does this sleazebag get?
What if someone gets killed?
Oh wait... 5 people did. On january 6th.

[DarkTZeratul]

Next time he'll be fined six grand. Hahaa, take that! Owned, then he'll shut up for sure!
It's sad how blatantly spineless and two tiered US courts are.

Next time he might just get thrown in prison. You do realize that judges typically can't just set whatever fines they like, right? There are actual rules regarding how much they can charge.

[zorkuus]

Next time he might just get thrown in prison.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Not going to happen. Not a chance in hell.

You guys have a vivid imagination.
Want to know what will happen to tRump from all these legal troubles he's in? Some fines. That's it, at best. He will not face any serious consequences whatsoever. His underlings will, maybe. Not him. And he certainly won't spend a day in a cell.

And it won't matter if the Kraken and Ghouliani etc. spill the beans on him as part of a plea deal. The US justice system is too gutless to go after him, even if they're sitting on top a mountain of incrimination evidence.

[Jastall]

Trump has a 0% chance of landing in jail due to contempt of court. Let's try to be realistic here. It's not going to happen.

[postman1782]

Has Trump started bitching about the flippers yet?

Trump supporters, have been saying they were threatened with long jail sentences to flip. I was like duh, that is what flipping usually does if you don't. You either spend the rest of your life in prison, or flip on someone higher up to get lighter sentences.

[Breccia]

Trump supporters, have been saying they were threatened with long jail sentences to flip. I was like duh, that is what flipping usually does if you don't. You either spend the rest of your life in prison, or flip on someone higher up to get lighter sentences.

The lack of real-world knowledge would astound me, if they weren't Trump supporters.

[Endus]

https://apnews.com/article/donald-tr...b4290001eaf7d1

The chances of anything significant were always slim given that this was an "oversight" and all, so $5K fine for leaving that post up on his site.

We'll see if Trump decides to continue testing the waters or if he forgets about other disparaging remarks he's made but failed to remove.

This is the literal definition of corruption in the court system. This is injustice. A fine that can be easily afforded isn't a legal penalty; it's just a price.

How long will the courts' corruption and class/political biases be allowed to run amok?

[Edge-]

This is the literal definition of corruption in the court system. This is injustice. A fine that can be easily afforded isn't a legal penalty; it's just a price.

How long will the courts' corruption and class/political biases be allowed to run amok?

I imagine there are guidelines for this similar to sentencing guidelines.



Which MMOC's second favorite (third, technically?) lawyer did a video on and how convoluted and weird and nonsensical they are in their quest to be fair. It's a doozy.

[Malkiah]

How long will the courts' corruption and class/political biases be allowed to run amok?

i know this is rhetorical, but there's actually an answer to this which i find very interesting.

post monarchy societies have thus far basically operating on the following guideline:
the elite rape and pillage and exploit everyone and everything as much as possible solely for the purpose of gratuitous excess greed.
BUT, so long as they allow juuuust enough to be spread out to the plebes so that enough of a percentage of the population is living a life better than revolution, they can sustain that pretty much indefinitely.

the only time there is anything resembling a threat to the established order of the upper class is if enough of the population gets desperate enough that keeping to the social contract is no longer beneficial to them.
(see: the french revolution)

so the answer to your question is that is will be allowed to continue to run amok until the majority of people living in american are so impoverished and desperate that they go "fuck all of this" and burn the political structure to the ground and start over.

might happen some day, eventually, but not within the lifetimes of anyone posting on this forum i wouldn't think.
though, with the extent to which the US conservative movement has utterly forgotten this life lesson and has been trying to accelerate the process, i guess there's a chance it could happen a bit sooner than that.
but probably not by much.

[Endus]

i know this is rhetorical, but there's actually an answer to this which i find very interesting.

post monarchy societies have thus far basically operating on the following guideline:
the elite rape and pillage and exploit everyone and everything as much as possible solely for the purpose of gratuitous excess greed.
BUT, so long as they allow juuuust enough to be spread out to the plebes so that enough of a percentage of the population is living a life better than revolution, they can sustain that pretty much indefinitely.

the only time there is anything resembling a threat to the established order of the upper class is if enough of the population gets desperate enough that keeping to the social contract is no longer beneficial to them.
(see: the french revolution)

so the answer to your question is that is will be allowed to continue to run amok until the majority of people living in american are so impoverished and desperate that they go "fuck all of this" and burn the political structure to the ground and start over.

might happen some day, eventually, but not within the lifetimes of anyone posting on this forum i wouldn't think.
though, with the extent to which the US conservative movement has utterly forgotten this life lesson and has been trying to accelerate the process, i guess there's a chance it could happen a bit sooner than that.
but probably not by much.

I mean, you have the vanishingly small possibility of a populist movement arising too quickly to be controlled by the megacorporation capitalists, electing representatives in enough numbers to make rapid changes without enough remaining reps being able to prevent it, before that new blood gets enough money thrown at them in bribes and "lobbying" (which is just bribes, but legal) for them to end up in the same state as their forebears.

This is possible, but we're entering "how to unbreak an egg" territory of difficulty. Which is why basically all revolutions involve the use of violence. It's just far easier to not try and win by the intentionally biased rules, and to throw the board over and fight everyone to make an entirely new game.

[Breccia]

Trump might be blackballed and/or blueballed from FOX News *ding*

In recent months, Trump's inner circle has become increasingly convinced that Fox News is essentially sidelining the former president by restricting live appearances on their network.

“Trump is not allowed live on Fox *ding*,” a Trump operative told The Daily Beast, chalking it up to “fear” that Trump could level a baseless allegation that could leave the network in a legal mess.

A Trump adviser told The Daily Beast a similar story—that Trump isn’t allowed on live air anymore. At the very least, this person said, Fox News *ding* prefers to have Trump in a pre-recorded setting.

“Fox *ding* sent down word from the top that they don't want to ‘platform’ Trump like they did before,” a Trump adviser told The Daily Beast. “I find it hilarious. For one, it sounds like something MSNBC would do.”

After a lengthy hiatus last year, Trump re-emerged on Fox News *ding* this past March. However, following Trump’s absence, Trump came back in a diminished capacity. Starting in March of 2023, Trump conducted a string of interviews with Fox hosts and anchors including Sean Hannity *ding*, Bret Baier *ding*, and Larry Kudlow *ding*. But gone are the days of Trump simply calling in live and offering his stream of consciousness.

According to a search by The Daily Beast and Media Matters for America, Trump last phoned in live to a Fox News program *ding* in April of 2022. And Matt Gertz, senior fellow at Media Matters, told The Daily Beast the live freeze-out is no coincidence.

“Fox News’ *ding* record defamation settlement stemmed in part from its on-air Trump fanatics refusing to correct their guests' election-denial conspiracy theories live, even when they knew their claims were lies,” Gertz said. “It’s wildly implausible to imagine the likes of Sean Hannity *ding* pushing back on Trump’s rigged-election fantasies, so it looks like Fox’s lawyers *ding* may have engineered a solution that doesn’t require its propagandists to perform journalism.”

One Trump confidant contrasted the apparent ban on Trump’s live appearances to earlier Fox News coverage *ding*, when they “used to go live at every single one of his rallies!”

We all saw this coming. Well, everyone reading this. Trump might not have. Yes, from a legal perspective, Trump having unfiltered access to spew blatant falsehoods that FOX News refuses to correct seems like a bad idea. So is losing half your viewers. Tough call, but hey, it's not like you didn't bring this on yourself.

[Dontrike]

https://apnews.com/article/donald-tr...b4290001eaf7d1

The chances of anything significant were always slim given that this was an "oversight" and all, so $5K fine for leaving that post up on his site.

We'll see if Trump decides to continue testing the waters or if he forgets about other disparaging remarks he's made but failed to remove.

I understand this is a first strike and all that, but as a supposed "rich" guy, his first fine should have been $100k. I'm aware there are caps and the like, but this is some bullshit. That next fine better be dectupled at minimum.

[Breccia]

Also Very Stable Genius Donald: Eh, I won't return to the courthouse Thursday, I have a big golf tournament to go to or something.

He skipped the LIV tournament. Yes, that we knew. Funny story, this is his first miss, and he was in the WH for some of them. As a reminder, the Trump Golf Count stands at 298 meaning he almost too an entire year off to play golf.

- - - Updated - - -

So Mike Lindell has a new product! It's a Wi-Fi device announced a couple of months ago called a Wireless Monitoring Device, which--

"He did not fucking call them WMD's."

He did, yes.

"Can I call him 'retarded' without being canceled?"

I mean...maybe? It does mean very foolish or stupid and quite frankly, there's three voices in my head, I can afford to lose one. Anyhow, the claim is

We have been told our election computers are never connected to the Internet. The WMD will put that to the test by detecting and reporting in real-time Wi-Fi connections in county and state election offices

"That...sounds like some serious slippery slope territory."

Oh, it's worse. It could be a felony.

Kenton County Clerk Gabrielle Summe said the devices may be able to unlawfully identify voters and could be small enough for people to sneak into polling locations.

"These are the kinds of things that keep me up at night," she said at a board of elections meeting Friday morning.

Lindell, the founder and CEO of My Pillow, said his wireless monitoring devices, or WMDs, can detect any Wi-Fi signal at polling locations, record IP addresses and show what a network is named.

The four-person Kenton County board of elections voted unanimously that poll workers will be told not to let people use the devices.

Kentucky law prohibits the use of "computer or other information technology system" to record the identification of voters.

Summe said it would be up to a Commonwealth attorney to file charges against someone for using the devices, so she's not sure what the punishment for offenders would be. But she said most crimes involving election issues are class D felonies, which are punishable by one to five years in prison.

So I'm of the opinion that the idea is that people bring these scanners into a polling place, it naturally says there's fraud happening because look at who's selling them and why, and they make a huge fuss and get the polling station shut down. In fact, I'm predicting this now.

"What does it do that your phone isn't already doing?"

Well, for one, paying Mike Lindell. Other than that, I don't care. For all I care it's a GameBoy with "Election Fraud Detected" on the main menu. I want whoever is caught using one of these to attack democracy is given the full five years so they miss the following election.

[DarkTZeratul]

"That...sounds like some serious slippery slope territory."

Oh, it's worse. It could be a felony.

It also sounds completely useless if all it's doing is identifying networks. I'm not sure there's a way to remotely identify whether a specific piece of hardware is actively connected to a wireless network.