View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
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  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #26541
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    You do really think the UK has the same weight than the UE in this negociation ?
    The EU are conceding to every British demand, you tell me.

    The EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, seemingly agreed to all the government’s demands for the resumption of Brexit talks in pursuit of a deal. Barnier’s statement appeared to meet all the requests No 10 had been making as the price of new talks.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ntensify-talks

    I would say the UK is in the stronger negotiating position, so no not the same weight, the weaker side is the one that surrenders and that's not the UK.

  2. #26542
    Nothing is accepted since nothing is signed you know.

    He just "seemingly" accepted, the important word is between the quote. That means he said: "why not, we accept your conditions if you go back around the table to negotiate and we will see what you have to offer us".

  3. #26543
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    We are not the confused beast with many unelected heads who has just lost its right arm, when you are speaking to the decisive UK who have one united voice you know who the organ grinder is, who you are dealing with and their position, not the case with the EU.
    A very fitting description, the UK is a sentient arm, no brains, just flailing.
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    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
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    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  4. #26544
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Well, one aspect is interesting. Barnier said the EU was waiting for the UK's reaction. We have seen that reaction, it is a demand for the EU to cave. This might actually be the overture to the goodbyes. The EU can't budge, the UK won't talk until the EU budges, this is pretty much it. I wonder how it must feel like as a remainer in the UK, do they actually still hope for some... well, not totally fucked up outcome? Some sort of not-quite-as-bad-as-it-could-be?
    Nah we've all pretty much lost hope. Johnson is known for his u-turns but he's fucking up so much other stuff at the moment he'll probably have whiplash long before he gets around to the Brexit shambles. BTW it's not just the Remainers who are going to be pissed off by this, I think all but the most self-loathing, sycophantic Brexit supporters will be disappointed to discover the known liar Boris Johnson was lying about the benefits of Brexit.

  5. #26545
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Nah we've all pretty much lost hope. Johnson is known for his u-turns but he's fucking up so much other stuff at the moment he'll probably have whiplash long before he gets around to the Brexit shambles. BTW it's not just the Remainers who are going to be pissed off by this, I think all but the most self-loathing, sycophantic Brexit supporters will be disappointed to discover the known liar Boris Johnson was lying about the benefits of Brexit.
    The latter I have no sympathy for.
    They were warned dozens of times that the Brexit campaign is lying to them. They still chose to ignore any facts. They earned their demise.
    The only sad part is all the casualties
    Well, seems like democracy sucks with too many stupid people...

  6. #26546
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    The EU are conceding to every British demand, you tell me.

    The EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, seemingly agreed to all the government’s demands for the resumption of Brexit talks in pursuit of a deal. Barnier’s statement appeared to meet all the requests No 10 had been making as the price of new talks.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ntensify-talks

    I would say the UK is in the stronger negotiating position, so no not the same weight, the weaker side is the one that surrenders and that's not the UK.
    It literally says "For the resumption of Brexit talks"
    He just said "Sure, whatever, let's get back to negotiating"


    That's all.

  7. #26547
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    the decisive UK who have one united voice
    We're about as united as the US currently is lol Stop trolling and/or living with your head in the clouds.

  8. #26548
    Quote Originally Posted by Inuyaki View Post
    The latter I have no sympathy for.
    They were warned dozens of times that the Brexit campaign is lying to them. They still chose to ignore any facts. They earned their demise.
    The only sad part is all the casualties
    Well, seems like democracy sucks with too many stupid people...
    Not democracy in general, FPTP in particular. And it's not because people are stupid, it's because the system is shit. The UK doesn't have more or less stupid people than Germany. Our right wing retards got 12%, our left-wing retards got 9%. That's 21 percent of the population technically being unable to sign contracts on account of being retarded. I wager you don't have more than 20% of the population being hardcore retarded Brexiteers, so don't get so frustrated. The majority on the Brexit side was misguided or just bet on the wrong horse. Still idiotic, but they'll see the light eventually... hopefully.
    Last edited by Slant; 2020-10-20 at 01:04 PM.
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  9. #26549
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    The EU are conceding to every British demand, you tell me.

    The EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, seemingly agreed to all the government’s demands for the resumption of Brexit talks in pursuit of a deal. Barnier’s statement appeared to meet all the requests No 10 had been making as the price of new talks.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ntensify-talks

    I would say the UK is in the stronger negotiating position, so no not the same weight, the weaker side is the one that surrenders and that's not the UK.
    And yet we're still playing the role of the petulant little child, it seems.

    UK refuses to restart Brexit talks despite EU accepting its demands

    This isn't being "strong," or any other word you think you can magically apply. This is not good politics. This is the UK further proving how little we should be trusted and/or listened to.

    We are the stubborn child refusing to negotiate because we think our demands aren't at all ridiculous, even though we're crying out for a unicorn.

  10. #26550
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Not democracy in general, FPTP in particular. And it's not because people are stupid, it's because the system is shit. The UK doesn't have more or less stupid people than Germany. Our right wing retards got 12%, our left-wing retards got 9%. That's 21 percent of the population technically being unable to sign contracts on account of being retarded. I wager you don't have more than 20% of the population being hardcore retarded Brexiteers, so don't get so frustrated. The majority on the Brexit side was misguided or just bet on the wrong horse. Still idiotic, but they'll see the light eventually... hopefully.
    FPTP is worse, but even without it too many stupid people can ruin it. See first Brexit vote, which was not FTPT.

    Left-wing retards? Since you mention 9% I assume you mean die Linke? They are still normal. Comparing them to the AFD is stupid. Only because die Linken are the only left-wing party left (after the SPD went CDU light) does not make them retards... You'd rather have a party system without any left-wing party? Like in the US? Worked really well over there

  11. #26551
    Quote Originally Posted by Inuyaki View Post
    FPTP is worse, but even without it too many stupid people can ruin it. See first Brexit vote, which was not FTPT.

    Left-wing retards? Since you mention 9% I assume you mean die Linke? They are still normal. Comparing them to the AFD is stupid. Only because die Linken are the only left-wing party left (after the SPD went CDU light) does not make them retards... You'd rather have a party system without any left-wing party? Like in the US? Worked really well over there
    you have SPD, die Grünen and then on the far left, DIE LINKE, who are basically communists. You should pay attention to some of the things they are saying. I'm not against left-wing parties, but if you want to go AfD-crazy on the left side, I have no use for you. I'm not even saying they should be banned. But they are another kind of crazy that I'm happy with to not lead anything if possible. I agree that SPD needs to shift left a little, otherwise the upcoming election is going to destroy them, CDU needs to reposition itself anyway with a new candidate. Plenty of room in the middle for FPD, if Lindner that arrogant twat doesn't cock it up again...

    TL;DR: If someone's an extremist, they can suck my ass. I don't care which flavour. Be stupid, be treated like a stupid.
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  12. #26552
    Elemental Lord zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inuyaki View Post
    FPTP is worse, but even without it too many stupid people can ruin it. See first Brexit vote, which was not FTPT.

    Left-wing retards? Since you mention 9% I assume you mean die Linke? They are still normal. Comparing them to the AFD is stupid. Only because die Linken are the only left-wing party left (after the SPD went CDU light) does not make them retards... You'd rather have a party system without any left-wing party? Like in the US? Worked really well over there
    The conservatives wouldn't have gotten an 80 seats parliamentary majority with 43% of the vote under proportional representation.

    The referendum in 2016 is one thing, but FPTP is absolutely at the root of what enables the conservatives in the UK to push the current path they're on. If they needed to actually work with the other parties to get anything through at all, you'd see a vastly different political landscape.

  13. #26553
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    you have SPD, die Grünen and then on the far left, DIE LINKE, who are basically communists. You should pay attention to some of the things they are saying. I'm not against left-wing parties, but if you want to go AfD-crazy on the left side, I have no use for you. I'm not even saying they should be banned. But they are another kind of crazy that I'm happy with to not lead anything if possible. I agree that SPD needs to shift left a little, otherwise the upcoming election is going to destroy them, CDU needs to reposition itself anyway with a new candidate. Plenty of room in the middle for FPD, if Lindner that arrogant twat doesn't cock it up again...

    TL;DR: If someone's an extremist, they can suck my ass. I don't care which flavour. Be stupid, be treated like a stupid.
    What world do you live in? Die Grünen always were a center party, they have never been left. (Though they went a little bit more to the left in the past years because they somehow have that new following among young voters)
    SPD is clearly not left anymore. They moved to the right A LOT under the grand coalition.
    The whole country moved to the right over the last decades. 32 of the last 39 years were under conservative leadership. The country is pretty conservative in a lot of things. (Not comparing to the US obviously, then we would be ultra progressive)
    And if you are from Bavaria (just a guess because of your avatar ), you are most likely even more conservative. Which is not an attack, just for you to keep that in mind while evaluating on the political scale.

    https://www.politicalcompass.org/germany2017
    This is actually pretty accurate. Some stuff has changed.
    Grünen went left since then and may even have crossed the center line already.
    SPD... no idea what their actual stances are right now as of this year tbh. They are so wishy-washy, I don't follow them closely right now.


    Also die Linken are basically communists? Can you point me to those plans? Or do you not know what communism is?
    Saying that they are left-wing extremists is complete bs.
    But I am open to sources that show otherwise.

  14. #26554
    Boris suffers crushing defeat over plan to break international law on Brexit
    International law means nothing now, right? Because we have super strong and powerful British law, that everyone should follow!

    Long live the glory of the Empire!!

  15. #26555
    Quote Originally Posted by Inuyaki View Post
    FPTP is worse, but even without it too many stupid people can ruin it. See first Brexit vote, which was not FTPT.

    Left-wing retards? Since you mention 9% I assume you mean die Linke? They are still normal. Comparing them to the AFD is stupid. Only because die Linken are the only left-wing party left (after the SPD went CDU light) does not make them retards... You'd rather have a party system without any left-wing party? Like in the US? Worked really well over there
    Look at New Zealand if you want a perfect example of how it should work. Instead of a confrontational system based on FPTP, you end up with cooperative politics based on various parties working together. To the extent that the PM, having won a majority that would allow her to rule on her own, is STILL looking to set up a coalition with the Greens moving forward.

    Can you imagine our two parties trying to set up a coalition when they didn't have to? Not a chance; because FPTP is a cancer that turns politics into a zero sum game. I can't win unless I make you lose. It's doing just as much damage in the US as well.

    We won't progress in this country until we get a grown up political system that sidelines the idiots on both ends of the political spectrum. Rather than just one.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
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  16. #26556
    Quote Originally Posted by Inuyaki View Post
    What world do you live in? Die Grünen always were a center party, they have never been left. (Though they went a little bit more to the left in the past years because they somehow have that new following among young voters)
    SPD is clearly not left anymore. They moved to the right A LOT under the grand coalition.
    The whole country moved to the right over the last decades. 32 of the last 39 years were under conservative leadership. The country is pretty conservative in a lot of things. (Not comparing to the US obviously, then we would be ultra progressive)
    And if you are from Bavaria (just a guess because of your avatar ), you are most likely even more conservative. Which is not an attack, just for you to keep that in mind while evaluating on the political scale.

    https://www.politicalcompass.org/germany2017
    This is actually pretty accurate. Some stuff has changed.
    Grünen went left since then and may even have crossed the center line already.
    SPD... no idea what their actual stances are right now as of this year tbh. They are so wishy-washy, I don't follow them closely right now.


    Also die Linken are basically communists? Can you point me to those plans? Or do you not know what communism is?
    Saying that they are left-wing extremists is complete bs.
    But I am open to sources that show otherwise.
    The Greens have always been considered left. And they always were a bit more to the left, in every country they exist in. If you think they're centrist, I begin to understand your defense of Die Linke...
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  17. #26557
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    And yet we're still playing the role of the petulant little child, it seems.

    UK refuses to restart Brexit talks despite EU accepting its demands
    Just to be clear:

    The EU isn't giving in to demands on the contents of a deal, but accepting demands to intensify talks, and discuss all subjects - including legal texts.
    Theresa May seem to mouthed "utter rubbish" to gove, who had stated the lack of these as a reason to stop talking, and now that the uk got the possibility of intensified talk - the uk de-intensify the talks.

  18. #26558
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Just to be clear:

    The EU isn't giving in to demands on the contents of a deal, but accepting demands to intensify talks, and discuss all subjects - including legal texts.
    Theresa May seem to mouthed "utter rubbish" to gove, who had stated the lack of these as a reason to stop talking, and now that the uk got the possibility of intensified talk - the uk de-intensify the talks.
    At this point is just a public opinion of game of not wanting to be the one to pull the plug despite everyone involved knowing it's not going to end well.

  19. #26559
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    At this point is just a public opinion of game of not wanting to be the one to pull the plug despite everyone involved knowing it's not going to end well.
    Which is quite pointless. The Brexiteers are going to blame the EU for whatever forever and the EU will lose interest before February is out.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
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  20. #26560

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