View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #27421
    Well... that's that then... after four and half long and, sometimes, painful years the transition period has come to an end and the UK is, after almost 50 years, now an independent nation once again.

    Some will see this as a cause for celebration, others a time of sadness but most will breathe a sigh of relief that it is finally over but I prefer to optimistic and hope that 2021 will be the beginning of a new but different chapter in the UK/EU relationship.

    Whatever your feelings on Brexit I wish you well and hope that you all have a better year than the last.

  2. #27422
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Thanks to people like me the UK is now in charge of its own destiny. How will historians in years to come record this momentous occasion? I wager they will say this, was their finest hour.

    With mission accomplished by Brexiteers and Brexit now got done, goodbye eurochums, what a long strange trip its been.

    All stand please...


  3. #27423
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Thanks to people like me the UK is now in charge of its own destiny.
    Except for the bits where it isn't, which is quite a lot of the 1400 pages of the trade deal, and of the 600 pages of the WA.

  4. #27424
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    Except for the bits where it isn't, which is quite a lot of the 1400 pages of the trade deal, and of the 600 pages of the WA.
    ...which dribbles will ignore anyway because he seems to be incapable of learning.

  5. #27425
    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    the rock Gibraltar is now Schengen territory, Brexit in full swing
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55497084

    This is actually quite funny. If I, Latvian citizen without UK passport/visa/whatever, arrive from Latvia I will not have the passport check. If Dribbles, UK citizen with UK passport, arrives from London he will have it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  6. #27426
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Thanks to people like me the UK is now in charge of its own destiny. How will historians in years to come record this momentous occasion? I wager they will say this, was their finest hour.

    With mission accomplished by Brexiteers and Brexit now got done, goodbye eurochums, what a long strange trip its been.

    All stand please...
    The EU is no longer to blame for everything. From now on, Brexit will be to blame for everything. People like you will be to blame for everything. We will continue to remind you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    the rock Gibraltar is now Schengen territory, Brexit in full swing
    And we now have a border in effect in the Irish Sea. Those Brexit boys sure do know how to break up what little was left of The Empire.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  7. #27427
    Elemental Lord zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Well... that's that then... after four and half long and, sometimes, painful years the transition period has come to an end and the UK is, after almost 50 years, now an independent nation once again.

    Some will see this as a cause for celebration, others a time of sadness but most will breathe a sigh of relief that it is finally over but I prefer to optimistic and hope that 2021 will be the beginning of a new but different chapter in the UK/EU relationship.

    Whatever your feelings on Brexit I wish you well and hope that you all have a better year than the last.
    The UK never stopped being an independent nation in the first place.

    Posts like this is why people believe you to be a brexit supporter.

  8. #27428
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55497084

    This is actually quite funny. If I, Latvian citizen without UK passport/visa/whatever, arrive from Latvia I will not have the passport check. If Dribbles, UK citizen with UK passport, arrives from London he will have it.
    just prove you are from another Schengen member state, so some sort of ID is still a must.
    but once you are in via Gibraltar, you are free to go up until North cape in Norway (not EU, but EFTA) if you so desire.

  9. #27429
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    And we now have a border in effect in the Irish Sea. Those Brexit boys sure do know how to break up what little was left of The Empire.
    So is this the first international trade deal to make trading WITHIN the confines of a country more difficult?

    The government has finally published its advice on trading with the EU and has some lovely flow-charts detailing which form and which inspection is done where and when. See here: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...perating-model

    This is how Dribbles will sell his fish to the EU:



    And this is the procedure for Nissan to import components for car assembly at the Sunderland plant:



    Nice and simple.
    Last edited by Butler to Baby Sloths; 2021-01-01 at 02:01 PM.

  10. #27430
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    The UK never stopped being an independent nation in the first place.

    Posts like this is why people believe you to be a brexit supporter.
    What??? That's the whole point of the EU... you know... member states give up a degree of independence to pool their resources - in a the whole is greater than the sum of its parts type way.

    This is evident in many areas such as trade policy as Trump found out when Merkel had to explain why Germany could not do a trade deal with the US.

    It is surprising given that you are from one of the, so called, Frugal Four and their recent very public disagreements with the EU over budgetary commitments that you are, seemingly, not aware of this.

  11. #27431
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    What??? That's the whole point of the EU... you know... member states give up a degree of independence to pool their resources - in a the whole is greater than the sum of its parts type way.

    This is evident in many areas such as trade policy as Trump found out when Merkel had to explain why Germany could not do a trade deal with the US.

    It is surprising given that you are from one of the, so called, Frugal Four and their recent very public disagreements with the EU over budgetary commitments that you are, seemingly, not aware of this.
    It's insincere to frame the post Brexit Britain as any more sovereign or independent than pre Brexit Britain. We have already started day 1 within the bounds of an FTA that functionally sees us without this much alluded to absolute sovereignty and we will probably start to see government ministers pivot to explaining how FTA's diminish sovereignty and that's not what they really promised in the first place, people are just misremembering or misinterpreted what the government really said...like visiting castles during lock down on your birthday.

    Edit: Happy new year guys! Hope you have a better time of it this year if this has been a trying time.
    Last edited by Kronik85; 2021-01-01 at 03:49 PM.

  12. #27432
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    What??? That's the whole point of the EU... you know... member states give up a degree of independence to pool their resources - in a the whole is greater than the sum of its parts type way.

    This is evident in many areas such as trade policy as Trump found out when Merkel had to explain why Germany could not do a trade deal with the US.

    It is surprising given that you are from one of the, so called, Frugal Four and their recent very public disagreements with the EU over budgetary commitments that you are, seemingly, not aware of this.
    I think your initial post suggested/implied that the UK was not independent before, hence the confusion.

    EDIT: What I mean is that it can be interpreted as "UK had no sovereignty before".
    Last edited by Dezerte; 2021-01-01 at 03:58 PM.
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  13. #27433
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    It's insincere to frame the post Brexit Britain as any more sovereign or independent than pre Brexit Britain. We have already started day 1 within the bounds of an FTA that functionally sees us without this much alluded to absolute sovereignty and we will probably start to see government ministers pivot to explaining how FTA's diminish sovereignty and that's not what they really promised in the first place, people are just misremembering or misinterpreted what the government really said...like visiting castles during your lock down on your birthday.
    Is it? Really? Factually the UK is now independent whereas prior to the expiration of the transition period in many areas - trade, tax, budgets, etc - it was not.

    As I said the point of the EU is that nations give up a degree of independence to magnify their own strengths. I made no comment on whether or not this was a good or bad thing and even went to lengths to say that some would see it one way whilst others would see it differently, the fact that people are, predictably, trying to argue otherwise and to twist my words in order make something out of nothing speaks volumes for how absolutely useless this thread has become.

    Honestly I can't be bothered with another pathetic pile on and I have neither the time, energy or inclination to argue against the prevailing ignorance present in this thread with regard to the EU/UK FTA and the obligations it places on each other so I shall bid you Happy New Year.

  14. #27434
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Is it? Really? Factually the UK is now independent whereas prior to the expiration of the transition period in many areas - trade, tax, budgets, etc - it was not.
    Except it was always independent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Honestly I can't be bothered with another pathetic pile on and I have neither the time, energy or inclination to argue against the prevailing ignorance present in this thread with regard to the EU/UK FTA and the obligations it places on each other so I shall bid you Happy New Year.
    Then why do you keep coming back to this thread if you can't handle being told you're wrong?
    Last edited by Chelly; 2021-01-01 at 04:01 PM.

  15. #27435
    Quote Originally Posted by Chelly View Post
    Except it was always independent.



    Then why do you keep coming back to this thread if you can't handle being told you're wrong?
    Well, he is right. The UK had to take into account the minimum requirement of the EU when talking about its policies. Now, they can do what they want. They are "free", though we will see in the next year how they fare.

    Personally, I think they did a big mistake by leaving.

  16. #27436
    Nothing screams INDEPENDENCE, than how the UK now have to move goods between NI and England.

  17. #27437
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    All stand please...]
    Oh, Mr D - I bet you couldn’t sing all the verses without a lyric sheet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    the UK is, after almost 50 years, now an independent nation once again.
    It's just a classic Pann strawman. Changes to:

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    member states give up a degree of independence to pool their resources - in a the whole is greater than the sum of its parts type way..
    Refuting a weaker version of an argument.

    Pann (who’s had me on ignore now since I told them to fuck off) frustrates me as they’re clearly knowledgeable even to the point where I wonder if they had some kind of official role in this. However, I don’t think it’s pushing the boat out to suggest that Pann, on occasion, has been as much on the wind-up as Mr D. And the irony is that there are no #FBPE-type UK posters in this thread.

    Anyway, IDD with the poster when they say the UK has to move forward. Hopefully, this will include electoral reform, the lack of which has been at the heart of many of the UK’s problems. Of course, though, it won’t. So, that’s why I’m broadly pessimistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    Edit: Happy new year guys! Hope you have a better time of it this year if this has been a trying time.
    You too

  18. #27438
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Well, he is right. The UK had to take into account the minimum requirement of the EU when talking about its policies. Now, they can do what they want. They are "free", though we will see in the next year how they fare.
    No. What he is saying is simply untrue, it has no basis in fact.

    The EU is a voluntary organization where members agree to abide by certain policies in exchange for the benefits of european co-operation. That does not impact our independence. Legally speaking it is simply another trade deal with a group of countries.

    This country, like every other country, belongs to a number of international trade associations, so we are not "free" in any sense even if you go along with the alarmingly stupid notion that international trade=less freedom.

    The myth that people like Pann tend to perpetuate is that there was something magical and special about the EU that stopped us being independent as a nation, as opposed to any other international treaty. That is not true and never has been. But, if you truly believed international treaties compromised the UK's independence then you'd surely prioritize things like the presence of American military bases in the UK, our ridiculously one-sided extradition treaty with that same country, not to mention forcing its companies to pay their taxes in exchange for operating here. But the Brexiteers seemed to want even more of that so you have to seriously question their honesty when discussing independence.

  19. #27439
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    This is how Dribbles will sell his fish to the EU:
    You're missing the point.

    Dribbles doesn't need to sell his fish to the EU anymore, now he can sell it to China because our waters are SOVERIGN again so we can sink any Chinese trawlers who try to STEAL our fish, which means they will have to PAY us for our fish!



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    UK Companies can now deviate from EU regulations, providing they don't ship to the EU. But what kind of goods are we talking about then that would be made in the UK and then shipped half way across the world, that are not better off being made closer to their destination?
    This is a very good point, because one of the main complaints about the CE mark and EU standards in general when they first became the standard for EU members is that they weren't as strict as the BS mark and British standards we already had.

    One would assume if we're bringing our own system in again then at a minimum it would be as strict as the EU one, which means any goods that don't meet standards for export to the EU won't meet standards for sale in the UK either, so what is our plan here? To produce Chinese grade tat and try to sell it to Africa cheaper than China can? lol


    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    Also, what kind of company is going to set up two production lines, one for the EU and one for "other"? They'll either produce to the same standards for both (fulfilling the requirements for both), or they'll stop selling to the stricter market because production is too expensive.
    There is actually something of a historical precedent for this, back when the EU banned plasma TVs it effectively killed them off globally because with the planets largest market for technology now closed to them manufacturers opted to simply cease development and focus on LCD instead of having a separate development/production line for non-EU markets.

  20. #27440
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    There is actually something of a historical precedent for this, back when the EU banned plasma TVs it effectively killed them off globally because with the planets largest market for technology now closed to them manufacturers opted to simply cease development and focus on LCD instead of having a separate development/production line for non-EU markets.
    The EU did not ban plasma. Every body stopped making them for various reasons. One of them being the cost compared to lcd.

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