The Brexit aftermath thread

[Edge-]

you can leave the eu without leaving the sm/cu, look at labour's policy.

Yes, and it was painfully obvious that UKIP had precisely zero concrete plans on how to achieve those ends. And if memory serves, they were hardly united behind remaining in the SM/CU and had plenty who were strongly supporting a hard/no-deal Brexit.

Again, this was all transparently obvious stuff. If you got conned by these low-effort con men it's because you allowed yourself to be conned. Not because they're good con men.

[Pann]

honestly i had no fucking idea just how important the sm/cu was in terms of wider geo-political issues. i understood that sm/cu were important, but norway are not part of the eu and they enjoy sm/cu access.

of course the other reason was to vote against the, then, remainer tory government (cameron, osborne).

Fair enough, thanks for the answer, I appreciate your honesty.

But didn't Corbyn, half-arsedly, support remain? Wouldn't this be a reason to vote remain?

[dribbles]

Changed my quote so it didn't make sense to anyone any more? Yes, I saw that. What point were you trying to make? If it was "Dribbles is an idiot", we've pretty much got that from the rest of your posts, thanks. Didn't need anything else.

I mean seriously, what is that quote even supposed to mean anyway? Japan has signed the deal with the EU assuming that the UK is going to leave. The deal they are signing up is essentially with the 27. Sure, they might be upset to lose access to the UK because a no-deal Brexit makes it harder to access the UK. But their deal with the EU will carry on. The deal you bragged about a few posts back, the equivalent deal with the post Brexit UK? That wouldn't.

Look, I get that you're deluded. But at least try and stay vaguely rational. Otherwise what's the point of even posting?

Not at all, the EU consists of 28. Japan signed a deal with the 28, brexit hasn't happpened yet did you realise that? The article I linked clearly states the trade deal with Japan negotiated by the EU in a copy cat manner will continue beyond brexit with the UK.

It might be that an aspiration of Japan is the EU has free access to the UK markets and vice versa, but it is not a condition of the deal.

It is you that are deluded and irrational for suggesting otherwise.

Kate Hoey and Frank Field voted for with the Govt on NC18. Both of those MPs represent heavy remain voting constituencies. If they are putting personal ideology above representing their constituents then they are not fit to be an MP. I hope enough noise is created such that they are both deselected.

I'm not getting at you, but if you raise the democratic legitimacy of MP's when talking to the NEC would you kindly mention Doncaster to them for me and one Ed Milliband. Doncaster in case you didn't know voted 70% in favour of Brexit and yet a more avid remainer in Milliband would be hard to find.

Thanks!

[Floopa]

Fair enough, thanks for the answer, I appreciate your honesty.

But didn't Corbyn, half-arsedly, support remain? Wouldn't this be a reason to vote remain?

corbyn has been a euro-skeptic for 40 odd years. he wants to nationalise a lot of industries in the UK - i agree with him on this. private monopolies have no reason to exist. i think in the voting booth he probably voted leave if i'm completely honest. i also think since that vote he has softened his stance on the eu, as you can see labour campaigned in 2017 on leaving the SM/CU, since then they have agreed staying in the SM/CU would be smarter - protecting jobs, supply chains, etc.

i figured that the question of europe - given it is the Tory party's kryptonite - would cause them to implode, forcing a GE that results in a LAB victory or a LAB/SNP coalition. that outcome is very much still possible, but after this evening's results i am much less sure of it happening.

I'm not getting at you, but if you raise the democratic legitimacy of MP's when talking to the NEC would you kindly mention Doncaster to them for me and one Ed Milliband. Doncaster in case you didn't know voted 70% in favour of Brexit and yet a more avid remainer in Milliband would be hard to find.

Thanks!

you are absolutely right. MPs should vote in line with their constituents unless it is a question of morality or a free vote. Likewise in the Conservative party, both Sarah Wollaston and Anna Soubry represent leave voting constituencies, and they were 2 of the 12 tory rebels who tried to force the govt into CU discussions (which by extension would've been the trigger for a No Confidence vote and then a GE). they will very likely lose their seats in the next election.

[Pann]

corbyn has been a euro-skeptic for 40 odd years. he wants to nationalise a lot of industries in the UK - i agree with him on this. private monopolies have no reason to exist. i think in the voting booth he probably voted leave if i'm completely honest. i also think since that vote he has softened his stance on the eu, as you can see labour campaigned in 2017 on leaving the SM/CU, since then they have agreed staying in the SM/CU would be smarter - protecting jobs, supply chains, etc.

i figured that the question of europe - given it is the Tory party's kryptonite - would cause them to implode, forcing a GE that results in a LAB victory or a LAB/SNP coalition. that outcome is very much still possible, but after this evening's results i am much less sure of it happening.

I think if Labour get into power you are in for a real shock. If McDonnell gets his way Brexit will look like a picnic in the park.

[dribbles]

i figured that the question of europe - given it is the Tory party's kryptonite - would cause them to implode, forcing a GE that results in a LAB victory or a LAB/SNP coalition. that outcome is very much still possible, but after this evening's results i am much less sure of it happening.

I think that is more than possible, irrespective of tonight I would say 99% certainty we get another General Election before March 2019.

And I think Corbyn might win it.

[Slant]

i voted brexit because i think leaving the EU is a good idea, i don't think leaving the SM/CU are good ideas.

You do realise that the SM/CU is pretty much all the EU is about, right? In all practicality, I mean. That's pretty much the whole point of the EU. It's hard not to pass judgement on your ability to connect the dots here... I'm trying to be nice.

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honestly i had no fucking idea just how important the sm/cu was in terms of wider geo-political issues. i understood that sm/cu were important, but norway are not part of the eu and they enjoy sm/cu access.

Perhaps you should have informed yourself. Or listened to the experts that told you this exact thing over and over again.

[Edge-]

Or listened to the experts that told you this exact thing over and over again.

According to Brexiteers, experts are bad and people shouldn't listen to them.

[Noradin]

And you are pleased with that? Sounds like Japan has a better deal with the EU than Germany, let me explain :P

Yes, you have no clue.
We knew that already, no need to demonstrate it again.

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Ah ok then, that's all fine. Good that the EU has negotiated on behalf of the UK for a Japan/UK trade deal. Very nice indeed, thanks I guess.

Leaders announce in Tokyo that two countries will seek to instantly replace EU trade deal with a copycat deal for UK

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...xit-trade-deal

Only difference is that Germany will pay an ongoing 500 million euro a week to the EU for that negotiated trade deal and the UK will pay diddly squat.

More Brexit benefits! Got any more, freebie to the UK, deals in the pipeline?

You are of course aware that that means the UK will have to follow the EU rulebook to take advantage of that "copycat deal"?

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Did you see what I did there?

Of course we did: You made an ass of yourself. Again.

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i voted brexit because i think leaving the EU is a good idea, i don't think leaving the SM/CU are good ideas.

So you didn't understand what you were asked to vote for.
My condolences.

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you can leave the eu without leaving the sm/cu, look at labour's policy.

You really cannot.
Not the way you are thinking.
Your "leaving" would amount to giving up your vote and veto and keeping everything else the same.

[Slant]

According to Brexiteers, experts are bad and people shouldn't listen to them.

Well, to be fair... it's a valid point, when you do the research yourself and make sure you understand the matter at hand. None of which Brexiteers did. Instead they religiously believe (to this date!) the baseless claims created by spin doctors.

[dribbles]

Yes, you have no clue.
We knew that already, no need to demonstrate it again.

Not much substance in that response matey, you could have used the space to refute the allegations that Japan has a better deal than Germany with the EU. But you didn't so I take you must agree? You can't demonstrate otherwise...

You are of course aware that that means the UK will have to follow the EU rulebook to take advantage of that "copycat deal"?

Not at all, unlike Germany we won't be paying 500 million a week to the EU for the Japan/EU trade deal, yet will still benefit from it.

Of course we did: You made an ass of yourself. Again.

Do you have anything? No didn't think so. I think the ass is the one paying 500 million euro a week when another has to pay zero for exactly the same thing.

Case closed?

[Noradin]

Not much substance in that response matey, you could have used the space to refute the allegations that Japan has a better deal than Germany with the EU. But you didn't so I take you must agree? You can't demonstrate otherwise...

No need for me to write a wall of text at 2:30 in the night when everyone in this thread (yes, that includes you) knows I'm right.

[dribbles]

No need for me to write a wall of text at 2:30 in the night when everyone in this thread (yes, that includes you) knows I'm right.

I'm just pleased that we all seem to accept that nations outside the EU get a better deal with the EU than those inside, even at 01.30 am

[Noradin]

I'm just pleased that we all seem to accept that nations outside the EU get a better deal with the EU than those inside, even at 01.30 am

You and the voices in your head (that's what you mean with "we", right?) seem quite delusional, and apparently none of you can read what you quote.

[Slant]

I'm just pleased that we all seem to accept that nations outside the EU get a better deal with the EU than those inside, even at 01.30 am

No, we don't. But Noradin really said all there is to say. That's why we didn't add anything to it. Rest assured, we'll pipe up when he starts talking bullshit. So far, only one smells of bullshit. Go take a bath, mate. You need it.

[Kallisto]

i voted brexit because i think leaving the EU is a good idea, i don't think leaving the SM/CU are good ideas.

You do realise what you said was "Keeping everything is a good idea, except the right for us to have a say in what is going on." because that is what leaving the EU but staying in the SM/CU is. It is basically staying in the EU but without a say in how the EU runs.

Also this whole "We can't nationalise in the EU." that you put out at times is complete bullshit too. We have renationalised businesses in the past 10 years (Banks some of which are still in Government hands, certain rail franchises have been put back into the national running.). We can renationalise any industry we want to. The only thing we can't do is going full commie and saying to say Greater Anglia (They run the trains here.) "We're ripping away your contract. Now fuck off.". What we can do is at the end of their contract is go "The Anglia region is no longer up for bidding and is now under the control of British Rail." or pay market rates.

[Noradin]

You do realise what you said was "Keeping everything is a good idea, except the right for us to have a say in what is going on." because that is what leaving the EU but staying in the SM/CU is. It is basically staying in the EU but without a say in how the EU runs.

Also this whole "We can't nationalise in the EU." that you put out at times is complete bullshit too. We have renationalised businesses in the past 10 years (Banks some of which are still in Government hands, certain rail franchises have been put back into the national running.). We can renationalise any industry we want to. The only thing we can't do is going full commie and saying to say Greater Anglia (They run the trains here.) "We're ripping away your contract. Now fuck off.". What we can do is at the end of their contract is go "The Anglia region is no longer up for bidding and is now under the control of British Rail." or pay market rates.

As Floopa explained in some other post their plan is for the government to make money by selling assets internationally while already planning to turn around immideately afterwards and seize them again without compensation. Rinse and repeat.
Obviously, the ECJ would not stand for that.

[Kallisto]

As Floopa explained in some other post their plan is for the government to make money by selling assets internationally while already planning to turn around immideately afterwards and seize them again without compensation. Rinse and repeat.
Obviously, the ECJ would not stand for that.

Well no wonder he wanted out. The eu wasn't "EUSSR" (Fuck I hated that term by the right brexiteers since it showed how little they knew about communism and the EU) enough for him.

[Floopa]

Well no wonder he wanted out. The eu wasn't "EUSSR" (Fuck I hated that term by the right brexiteers since it showed how little they knew about communism and the EU) enough for him.

labour's plans for nationalisation are based on buying the industries at a value set by government rather than market value. you cannot do this while in the ECJ, they would not allow it.

labour also plan to change the rules surrounding land value and buying land for house building, currently a person is able to sell land for the market value it would be post-build of any site(s). under labour's proposal the government would be allowed to buy the land for the current value at the time, which would naturally be a fraction of the cost.

these are popular policies and they can only be achieved if we're out of the eu.

[Pann]

labour's plans for nationalisation are based on buying the industries at a value set by government rather than market value. you cannot do this while in the ECJ, they would not allow it.

labour also plan to change the rules surrounding land value and buying land for house building, currently a person is able to sell land for the market value it would be post-build of any site(s). under labour's proposal the government would be allowed to buy the land for the current value at the time, which would naturally be a fraction of the cost.

these are popular policies and they can only be achieved if we're out of the eu.

I wasn't aware that Lab planned to buy the utilities at a price set by government rather than market value but if that is the case their plans are even more crackpot than I thought! What makes you think that government buying the assets of a private individual or company at a price it sets is allowed by British law? Essentially this would open the door to the government stealing assets from people or companies whenever it sees fit.

People are, in general, allowed to sell land (or any other asset, product or service) at whatever price the buyer will pay for it, this is a fundamental principle of the free market. Why would a buyer pay post development prices for an empty plot of land? What you are saying makes absolutely no sense. A developer buys land then spends money building on that land, improving it, which in turn adds value to the land, if they were to pay post improvement prices they would eliminate any profit from improving it.

It appears that you are getting confused with land banking where companies hold on to land that can be built on to inflate prices of housing. This is an issue that the current government is working on resolving.

I doubt these policies are particularly popular.