View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
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  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #7061
    Quote Originally Posted by alexw View Post
    I've been interested in this and so doing some reading. Its not actually a threat, its just what happens if the UK withdraws from the European Air Safety Agency (EASA), and there is no viable replacement put in place of it (which there won't be, not enough time).

    What happens right now is that the safety profile of the UK's air fleet is overseen by the EASA, so things like aircraft airworthiness, medical checks on pilots, upholding the standards of maintenance crews, certify that pilots are trained and capable of flying, certify pilots licenses, etc.

    Other nations long ago reviewed the procedures and standards of the EASA and certified them against their own, such that the if you meet EASA standards then you meet, US or Canadian, or etc, standards and are automatically allowed to fly and land in their territories.

    So if the UK leaves the EASA then it needs to set up its own air safety agency that can do everything that the EASA does (and its not simple to do either since the EASA oversee's EVERYTHING relating to air safety from airplane spare parts to pilot training similators) in the time it has left before it leaves, and have all the other nations on the planet sign off on it against their own standards. That has to happen if UK based planes are to continue to fly, and it simply isn't doable in less than a couple of years.

    Hence this isn't a threat by the EU to ground UK airplanes. Its nothing of the sort. Its the natural consequence of the UK jumping off a cliff without a parachute. Its decided to leave the EASA and not spent the time (years) necessary beforehand to create the structures necessary for its air fleet to continue to fly. So I'm not sure how this is the EU's fault. If a person (the UK) decides to leap out of a plane without using a parachute its hardly the fault of the people standing below. Its the fault of the person jumping.
    Don't try. The thread of logic employed by hardcore Brexiteers goes like this.

    The UK is special. Everyone has to bend over backwards in order to make Brexit as seamless and profitable as possible for them. If they decide to not do that, and not doing so harms the UK, then that is a threat.

  2. #7062
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexw View Post
    I've been interested in this and so doing some reading. Its not actually a threat, its just what happens if the UK withdraws from the European Air Safety Agency (EASA), and there is no viable replacement put in place of it (which there won't be, not enough time).

    What happens right now is that the safety profile of the UK's air fleet is overseen by the EASA, so things like aircraft airworthiness, medical checks on pilots, upholding the standards of maintenance crews, certify that pilots are trained and capable of flying, certify pilots licenses, etc.

    Other nations long ago reviewed the procedures and standards of the EASA and certified them against their own, such that the if you meet EASA standards then you meet, US or Canadian, or etc, standards and are automatically allowed to fly and land in their territories.

    So if the UK leaves the EASA then it needs to set up its own air safety agency that can do everything that the EASA does (and its not simple to do either since the EASA oversee's EVERYTHING relating to air safety from airplane spare parts to pilot training similators) in the time it has left before it leaves, and have all the other nations on the planet sign off on it against their own standards. That has to happen if UK based planes are to continue to fly, and it simply isn't doable in less than a couple of years.

    Hence this isn't a threat by the EU to ground UK airplanes. Its nothing of the sort. Its the natural consequence of the UK jumping off a cliff without a parachute. Its decided to leave the EASA and not spent the time (years) necessary beforehand to create the structures necessary for its air fleet to continue to fly. So I'm not sure how this is the EU's fault. If a person (the UK) decides to leap out of a plane without using a parachute its hardly the fault of the people standing below. Its the fault of the person jumping.
    That may all be so, however the problem for Ireland and the EU is this.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/irelan...ce-414646.html

    You cannot expect the UK to protect Irish airspace and yet be banned from using that very same airspace commercially. That is why the EU must capitulate and make an agreement otherwise all it will take to concentrate EU/Irish minds is the sight of a Russian bomber flying over Dublin at will.

  3. #7063
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    Don't try. The thread of logic employed by hardcore Brexiteers goes like this.

    The UK is special. Everyone has to bend over backwards in order to make Brexit as seamless and profitable as possible for them. If they decide to not do that, and not doing so harms the UK, then that is a threat.
    Unfortunately that's the view of the average brexiteer. People like to act like Dribbles is a one off. But unfortunately basically every brexiteer I know is like Dribbles or worse. They somehow think the UK will be a big player in the world with everyone falling over themselves to be our BFFs making deals on Britain's terms.

  4. #7064
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    That may all be so, however the problem for Ireland and the EU is this.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/irelan...ce-414646.html

    You cannot expect the UK to protect Irish airspace and yet be banned from using that very same airspace commercially. That is why the EU must capitulate and make an agreement otherwise all it will take to concentrate EU/Irish minds is the sight of a Russian bomber flying over Dublin at will.
    Still waiting for that flight route map dribbs, come on, help me out here, be a chap!

    Also, just what route are Russian bombers going to take to reach Irish airspace?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Unfortunately that's the view of the average brexiteer. People like to act like Dribbles is a one off. But unfortunately basically every brexiteer I know is like Dribbles or worse. They somehow think the UK will be a big player in the world with everyone falling over themselves to be our BFFs making deals on Britain's terms.
    I can't exactly get my head around their idea of protecting everything that's theirs and keeping everyone out while also being on an island dependant on imports.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before.

    A bunch of times actually.

  5. #7065
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    No I found your numbers as well, just looked at your parliaments research briefings and they had different numbers. Just weird.
    Not weird. Did you actually think the Brexit side was honourable enough to not fake numbers when it suits them? :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    I see ships my friend from the mountains, I see ships. Who would control the shipping lanes?

    Stand ready chaps, time to man the blockades, as the EU commands thy will be done
    That's right, bitch. And don't you forget it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Oh my Dribbs is threatening war again. Whatever shall we do
    Join the fun, declare war right back at him. It will confuse his tiny brain and we might see an actual brain melt.
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  6. #7066
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Still waiting for that flight route map dribbs, come on, help me out here, be a chap!

    Also, just what route are Russian bombers going to take to reach Irish airspace?

    - - - Updated - - -



    I can't exactly get my head around their idea of protecting everything that's theirs and keeping everyone out while also being on an island dependant on imports.
    I don't usually do requests, but seeing as it is you my friend...



    Good enough?

  7. #7067
    Quote Originally Posted by woozie21 View Post
    Get ready for a blast from the past then.

    - - - Updated - - -

    There are more chances of us joining Russia then us joining the UK.
    You can't really expect us joining the UK after they ramp-sacked the country for 600 years.
    Heh, good one.

    Nobody expects you to join the UK. What we do wonder, though, is how the Irish would feel about a hard border. Now, we know you're no fans of the idea and would prefer no border, to keep peace on the Island. But let's assume Dribs' wet dream comes true and the UK crashes out due to sheer incompetence (ie. being British). How would Ireland act? What do the Irish think? Would they understand the EU's need for integrity and a properly maintained border?

    The alternative is cutting Ireland out of the EU, really. And that's an idea the EU wouldn't want.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
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  8. #7068
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    That may all be so, however the problem for Ireland and the EU is this.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/irelan...ce-414646.html

    You cannot expect the UK to protect Irish airspace and yet be banned from using that very same airspace commercially. That is why the EU must capitulate and make an agreement otherwise all it will take to concentrate EU/Irish minds is the sight of a Russian bomber flying over Dublin at will.
    I really hope that article is wrong and the Irish are not relying on RAF Tornadoes to shoot down hostile aircraft their airspace!

    We retired the Tornado ADV (Air Defence Variant) in 2011!

  9. #7069
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Yes, and you're the first dutch to bring up that shit in a conversation with me. EVER! Either that says something about your countrymen or about you. I'm not sure which, yet...
    Maybe im a hidden Belgian? or more one who got shafted during the so-called dutch golden age when my province was basically a wingewest (still is!)
    ''With this attack, we have no choice but to protect our kind by unleashing our almighty weapon upon them. Summoning the Apocalypse'' - Stellaris Apocalypse trailer.

  10. #7070
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    That may all be so, however the problem for Ireland and the EU is this.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/irelan...ce-414646.html

    You cannot expect the UK to protect Irish airspace and yet be banned from using that very same airspace commercially. That is why the EU must capitulate and make an agreement otherwise all it will take to concentrate EU/Irish minds is the sight of a Russian bomber flying over Dublin at will.
    The UK is not banned though. They only need to ensure that their aircrafts meet the standards and they are good to go. Or are you saying the mighty UK cannot quickly create a proper agency for that? They had two years to do so, after all.

    Besides, the UK has an interest in continuing to protect the Irish airspace because, and I guess that will come as a shock to you - it is pretty close to UK airspace. A bomber over Liverpool is 218 kilometers away from being a bomber over Liverpool. The UK would want to have its fighters up in the air by that point already, if they want to protect UK airspace. Besides, the UK wants to be able to operate in the East, too, so that they can intercept aircraft coming from there. It's almost like cooperation is useful for both sides.

  11. #7071
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    I don't usually do requests, but seeing as it is you my friend...



    Good enough?
    You've posted that one, I was asking for the UK, not for Ireland, I get that you can mix up those two countries at times, but I never thought you of all people would not know what the UK is.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before.

    A bunch of times actually.

  12. #7072
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    I don't usually do requests, but seeing as it is you my friend...



    Good enough?
    Wow! I never knew that aeroplanes had to fly in straight lines and couldn't turn. I guess it's a bit like dogs... you know... not being able to look up.

    I'll get my coat.

  13. #7073
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I really hope that article is wrong and the Irish are not relying on RAF Tornadoes to shoot down hostile aircraft their airspace!

    We retired the Tornado ADV (Air Defence Variant) in 2011!
    Must be an old stock photo, what we have now goes to fast for an updated picture!

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/roya...efend-ireland/

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Wow! I never knew that aeroplanes had to fly in straight lines and couldn't turn. I guess it's a bit like dogs... you know... not being able to look up.

    I'll get my coat.
    A bit inconvenient though when leaving Dublin having to fly to Africa before turning right to make a landing in Paris!

  14. #7074
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    Maybe im a hidden Belgian? or more one who got shafted during the so-called dutch golden age when my province was basically a wingewest (still is!)
    Sneaky. As long as you're European, I don't care really. Belgian, Dutch.. it's all just different flavours of cool people.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
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  15. #7075
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Must be an old stock photo, what we have now goes to fast for an updated picture!

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/roya...efend-ireland/



    A bit inconvenient though when leaving Dublin having to fly to Africa before turning right to make a landing in Paris!
    More inconvenient than trying to fly around Europe when you want to go to any place east of the UK?

  16. #7076
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    More inconvenient than trying to fly around Europe when you want to go to any place east of the UK?
    We've nailed our colours to the mast and taken the view that west is best :P

  17. #7077
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    A bit inconvenient though when leaving Dublin having to fly to Africa before turning right to make a landing in Paris!
    I know Ryanair are famous for landing at airports that are far away from their stated destination but that is taking the biscuit!

    Why would an aircraft flying from Dublin to Paris need to travel to Africa before turning left (right would take them out over the Atlantic)? Wouldn't it be more sensible to fly around Land's End before turning to fly over Brittany and then on to Paris?

  18. #7078
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    We've nailed our colours to the mast and taken the view that west is best :P
    Weren't there some commonwealth countries that you wanted to be besties with that, you know....are not west of the UK?

  19. #7079
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I know Ryanair are famous for landing at airports that are far away from their stated destination but that is taking the biscuit!

    Why would an aircraft flying from Dublin to Paris need to travel to Africa before turning left (right would take them out over the Atlantic)? Wouldn't it be more sensible to fly around Land's End before turning to fly over Brittany and then on to Paris?
    Ah yes nice, I was looking at the map, should have realised from the pilots perspective head left for the looney lefties, easy way to remember it..

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    Weren't there some commonwealth countries that you wanted to be besties with that, you know....are not west of the UK?
    Are we or are we not allowed though? That is the question.

  20. #7080
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    That may all be so, however the problem for Ireland and the EU is this.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/irelan...ce-414646.html

    You cannot expect the UK to protect Irish airspace and yet be banned from using that very same airspace commercially. That is why the EU must capitulate and make an agreement otherwise all it will take to concentrate EU/Irish minds is the sight of a Russian bomber flying over Dublin at will.
    It will take about a week to arrange for NATO to polish Irish air space like they do for the Baltics (currently Portugal, France, Spain). France would be able to cover it fully. Unless of course we are entering the scenario where the UK is refusing NATO aircraft through its airspace to intercept Russians in Ireland.
    The framework is there, we'd copy paste it and have it running before Brexit if we are heading for no-deal, antagonistic Brexit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    You've posted that one, I was asking for the UK, not for Ireland, I get that you can mix up those two countries at times, but I never thought you of all people would not know what the UK is.
    I mean his best friend Davis did not seem to realize the RoI is a separate country, maybe the issue is widespread.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    We've nailed our colours to the mast and taken the view that west is best :P
    Yes but you have to fly over Ireland to go west . . .

    I think you can fly to the North Pole! Which is the best option for you since you need to go and demand to see Santa since he failed to give you your empire back.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2018-07-23 at 05:59 PM.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

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