The Brexit aftermath thread

[Dizzeeyooo]

I think you'll find it was 45.6% of the vote. But 45.6% that's the same as 30%, right?!?

42.4% of people that voted vs Labours 40%, not sure where you get 45.6% from?

29% of the total possible vote, so @tollshot was actually rounding up

[Twdft]

Absolute pleasure to see Boris Johnson being held up as the almighty twat that he is live on sky news

Brillant.

What I'd like to know is if Mr Johnson actually believes the stuff he says. The old question: troll or stupid?

[Pann]

Rides of on her unicorn, yeah they keep on believing that.

Might ask pann about the unicorn store he seems to be riding plenty into fantasy land lately.

I know I'll regret this, but what unicorns am I supposedly riding?

[fathewathe]

Hasn’t middle England decided the outcome of our general elections for decades past? There is not a snowballs chance in hell that middle England will vote for a 1970s style socialist PM.

You do know Corbyn came within 1% of winning the election last time, and that demographic changes since with the conservative vote dying off at the rate of 2% per year, strongly advantage labour?

[fathewathe]

And didn't the last socialist PM, in the 1970s funnily enough, result in us going cap in hand to the IMF? What did they call us? The sick man of Europe?

Jesus, you are one old fart. People don't care what happened in the 1970's, idiot. They care about not being able to buy food.

[Pann]

I never said that “people were stupid enough not to notice that the Con party doesn't about the country”, my point was always that the “alternative being worse”, so it’s pretty obvious that the later was/is my point.

You very clearly stated "what we have seen over the past few days is the Tory party trying heal some of their internal wounds, the future of the country seems to be of little interest to them, as long as they can continue in government after the next GE."

To which I pointed out that if was the case it would be counter productive as they would be unlikely to re-elected.

There was no mention of opposition in your post, how am I supposed to know that is what you were talking about?

I stand corrected, I should have said 30% of the electorate, not 30% of the vote. Perhaps if we didn’t have such a broken electoral system in fptp, more of the electorate would engage in our elections.

Nearly 70% of the electorate turned out for the 2017 GE which seems comparable to many other Europe countries.

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You do know Corbyn came within 1% of winning the election last time, and that demographic changes since with the conservative vote dying off at the rate of 2% per year, strongly advantage labour?

45.6% minus 41.9% is not 1%.

Hang on... Diane? Is that you?

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“Everything will be ok, regardless of the outcome.” Paraphrasing of course, but maybe what you are really saying is “I’m alright jack”.

Of course. It would be much more difficult for you to address what I actually wrote.

[Acidbaron]

“Everything will be ok, regardless of the outcome.” Paraphrasing of course, but maybe what you are really saying is “I’m alright jack”.

I was going to say the one on the first rainbow to candyland, but that also works.

[Kallisto]

Oh, here we go again. Yeah, yeah, it's all a conspiracy!

What conspiracy?

Are we going to keep the same rights with freedom of movement after brexit as before? Or is May bullshitting about removing such rights?

Do we or do we not have a system where governments have been formed with less than 40% of the vote going to one party or not? Hint yes we have (I never stated the 2017 election btw, just showing how it has happened.)

Are we going to see the £ drop even further after brexit or not since all indicators are pushing towards yes.

So here's a question for you Pann. Why the fuck should we not be upset things are getting worse. Why should we be happy. Why the fuck should we follow the idiot views just because "WilL oF tHe PeOpleZ." when those who have education have told us time and time and time again in no uncertain terms this course of action is fucking retarded,

Democracy is about informed choices not about 100 retards getting their way over 99 Einsteins.

The country is divided because of the brexiteers and no uncertain terms should we every hold our hands out in friendship for them every again. Spit in the face is all they deserve from this. Doesn't matter if it was some kid wanting to stick it to Cameron or an old diddy pining for the good old days but is now 6 feet under and actually doing something good for once which is decomposing into becoming soil.

[Dizzeeyooo]

45.6% minus 41.9% is not 1%.

Hang on... Diane? Is that you?

Any reason why you are ignoring Scotland and Wales?

Theresa May is that you?

[Pann]

What conspiracy?

Are we going to keep the same rights with freedom of movement after brexit as before? Or is May bullshitting about removing such rights?

Do we or do we not have a system where governments have been formed with less than 40% of the vote going to one party or not? Hint yes we have (I never stated the 2017 election btw, just showing how it has happened.)

Are we going to see the £ drop even further after brexit or not since all indicators are pushing towards yes.

So here's a question for you Pann. Why the fuck should we not be upset things are getting worse. Why should we be happy. Why the fuck should we follow the idiot views just because "WilL oF tHe PeOpleZ." when those who have education have told us time and time and time again in no uncertain terms this course of action is fucking retarded,

Democracy is about informed choices not about 100 retards getting their way over 99 Einsteins.

The country is divided because of the brexiteers and no uncertain terms should we every hold our hands out in friendship for them every again. Spit in the face is all they deserve from this. Doesn't matter if it was some kid wanting to stick it to Cameron or an old diddy pining for the good old days but is now 6 feet under and actually doing something good for once which is decomposing into becoming soil.

Well apparently FPTP is, in your words, undemocratic but so was the referendum which was one person, one vote??? It would appear that your problem is not the voting system but that you don't like the result.

Probably not. But you are aware that 1) this is the result of a (non-FPTP) vote and 2) May has no power over what other countries decide?

You can be upset, I don't think I said otherwise. You don't have to agree with Brexit, I don't, but the reality is that is that is going ahead because people voted for it.

Yes, spit in their faces! You're definitely in the Einstein group.

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Reading comprehension not your thing? Or maybe I was wrong when I said “all you do is regurgitate what you have read”, more accurately all you do is regurgitate what fits your agenda.

Wait! So I cannot read but I regurgitate what I read? But now I can and instead have an agenda! Hooray! How would I establish an agenda without reading? That makes perfect sense.

To which I pointed out, in a number of posts, that middle England will not vote for a 1970s style socialist in the form of Corbyn.

Yes, but you didn't mention anything about Corbyn in the post I replied to which has caused you such confusion.

Go back and read my posts.

I don't think I've done anything that warrants such a punishment! I mean I read your Clownservatives bollocks last night. I really wouldn't want to do that again. But on a serious note, when you were typing this did you honestly believe that there were any circumstances under which you would not come across as an angry teenage child?

With only 29.1% of the total electorate voting for the party who is determined to rank our country.

Err? What? What is ranking our country? On second thoughts I don't want to know.

Something to do with you riding unicorns. Your post was addressed fully.

That makes no sense.

[Slant]

Maybe nothing will change. Or maybe there will be significant changes. Who knows?

However nothing that is said on these boards will make any difference to what happens.

I wouldn't be so judgmental if I was you. This board is a fairly decent representation of different arguments. At amateur level, I admit, but it's not like we're complete idiots here. So no, what we say will not make a difference. But it'll help us understand wtf is going on. And why, most importantly. See, that may affect how we vote in the future. Understand how democracy works now and why discussion boards and discussions are important?

[Kallisto]

Well apparently FPTP is, in your words, undemocratic but so was the referendum which was one person, one vote??? It would appear that your problem is not the voting system but that you don't like the result.

Probably not. But you are aware that 1) this is the result of a (non-FPTP) vote and 2) May has no power over what other countries decide?

You can be upset, I don't think I said otherwise. You don't have to agree with Brexit, I don't, but the reality is that is that is going ahead because people voted for it.

Yes, spit in their faces! You're definitely in the Einstein group.

Years of years of years of facts pushed towards brexiteers and they still didn't change their minds. Rational and reasonable debate is over. If they won't change it through facts and figures what do you suggest to come up with? Seriously all you have come up with for a so called remainer is "Lie down and take it without lube and hope it doesn't get worse." which is just as bad as being a brexiteer.

No appeal to emotion in debates is never acceptable either ever.

[Slant]

Absolute pleasure to see Boris Johnson being held up as the almighty twat that he is live on sky news

Thank you for linking that. It's very cathartic to finally see proper journalism calling out the bullshit for what it is. Too long have reporters leaned back and just taken whatever was spoonfed to them. Finally some critical thinking!

[Pann]

Years of years of years of facts pushed towards brexiteers and they still didn't change their minds. Rational and reasonable debate is over. If they won't change it through facts and figures what do you suggest to come up with? Seriously all you have come up with for a so called remainer is "Lie down and take it without lube and hope it doesn't get worse." which is just as bad as being a brexiteer.

No appeal to emotion in debates is never acceptable either ever.

Having read a number of your posts I am really not sure if you are in position to lecture anyone about facts.

But has it ever occurred to you that reason they do not listen to your facts is because of the way you present them?

As I said you really need to grow up.

[Slant]

Having read a number of your posts I am really not sure if you are in position to lecture anyone about facts.

But has it ever occurred to you that reason they do not listen to your facts is because of the way you present them?

As I said you really need to grow up.

And you need to stop those ad hominems. You barely bring any new arguments to the table and you keep lording over who says what in what manner and what you deem acceptable. If you can't debate properly, and your past history shows just that, you should probably bow out and stop wasting everybody's time.

[Pann]

Your grasping at straws now pann, at this point you have less credibility than the dribbler.

Well with my ability to read that comes and goes what do you expect?

Confusion looks to be your default stance.

Does it? No, it doesn't! Wait... you might be right!

What, the party you voted for aren’t a shower of clowns? Time to wake up pann.

I voted Labour in the last general election. But yeah, they aren't great. Still Clownservatives... fuck's sake... should you be up this late on a school night?

Obvious typo(since corrected), but maybe you don’t have the wit to realise that.

Obviously?!? How I am supposed to know if you were using one of those words that are popular in playground again?

Go read back, it makes perfect sense, or do I need to make another wit quip?

It doesn't. But no... not that... anything but one your wit quips!

[Kallisto]

Having read a number of your posts I am really not sure if you are in position to lecture anyone about facts.

But has it ever occurred to you that reason they do not listen to your facts is because of the way you present them?

As I said you really need to grow up.

How else is there to present them outside of what they are. Cold, emotionless, and straight to the point. "X happens, you'll be poorer, don't do x. Here's the source for it. What you wanted daily mail/sun/express source, yeah no that's not going to happen."

In regards to recent style of posting there comes a time when after presenting them year in year out for well over a decade you come to the point you realise it's futile and basically they prove themselves to be too dumb to accept them.

[Pann]

How else is there to present them outside of what they are. Cold, emotionless, and straight to the point. "X happens, you'll be poorer, don't do x. Here's the source for it. What you wanted daily mail/sun/express source, yeah no that's not going to happen."

In regards to recent style of posting there comes a time when after presenting them year in year out for well over a decade you come to the point you realise it's futile and basically they prove themselves to be too dumb to accept them.

Do you mean cold, emotionless, straight to the point facts like how the EU tried to save the British steel industry but was blocked by Cameron?

[Dizzeeyooo]

We did discuss earlier that the one UK red line that was prioritized over all others was stopping Freedom of Movement in the UK. Is May willing to change that?

It's the one single thing about this whole process her slightly racist mind is proud of, so likely no.

can her word be trusted at the negotiating table anymore?

No
No
No
and finally, No

We agreed to the need for a backstop in December 2017, designed the current backstop proposal, had 27 other countries agree to what we wanted, and have now voted to reject the idea of a backstop completely at the last moment. The UK is a complete joke right now internationally.

[Dizzeeyooo]

In part I wonder if May herself is to blame for this, as in she as a person. From what I've read here and elsewhere, her political talent was escaping responsibility. Which is woefully unsuited for this particular task. Perhaps in another time she'd be a fine PM.

Once she became PM she needed to immediately start telling the public the truth about leaving the EU to manage expectations. Instead we had more then a year of pointless "Brexit means Brexit, Red White and Blue Brexit, Will of the People etc" pandering to the ERG/Daily Mail/Express/Telegraph and a general election that handed power to the DUP - so now when agreements are actually getting written down on paper and all the bullshit is falling away, she has nothing left except to just put her head down and try to keep going forwards to nowhere while the Conservative party disintegrates around her.

Edit: NHS trusts are now beginning to follow retailers in warning how fucked a no deal Brexit Britain will actually be

"it is assumed that a significant proportion of the medicines and consumables we use at UHB on a daily basis may be at risk".
These shortages, Dr Rosser said, would lead to most non-urgent operations being postponed.

Fortunately he is only a senior doctor, so likely just another part of project fear