The Brexit aftermath thread

[Acidbaron]

I mean his suggestion to the EU, which the EU seems to quite like and has pressed May to also accept, is a very soft Brexit.

What the labour leadership does not support. We have been dealing with months of what people don't want in the UK yet to get any plans of what they do want. In any case it's pointless to discuss this with a person who has to resort to ban evading cause he lacks the decency or intelligence to remain unbanned for a week.

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She's trying to be a Thatcher-style Iron Lady who doesn't budge, and as a result, since her deal isn't worth the paper it's written on as far as Parliament is concerned, and the EU also isn't going to budge (and indeed, why would it?), we're gonna drop out without a deal.

I can't personally see an extension being agreed, since we're not offering anything that hasn't already been shot down, and the EU has already said it won't extend without a good reason.

So, all told, we're in a bad place.

It's Thatcher style alright, the same style who torpedoed the industrial part of the UK making them dependant on foreign investments almost entirely. What makes this whole brexit scenario absurd as it makes the climate to invest in the UK all the more harder and troublesome. But the brexit was never an economic motivator or so i'm being told despite a core argument was about money. Than again it was also never about racism, despite a large part of it being against immigrants of all types, not just muslims.

Considering how conservatism generally works, it is rather ironic that both the american and british ones are such disaster capitalists.

[Dizzeeyooo]

I mean his suggestion to the EU, which the EU seems to quite like and has pressed May to also accept, is a very soft Brexit.

And since May has (currently anyway) completely ignored what he has suggested, how does Corbyn intend to prevent a no deal Brexit happening, outside of asking nicely?

[Slant]

Excellent - can you let us know how, as the leader of the opposition, Corbyn intends to prevent a no deal Brexit happening, outside of asking nicely?

By reiterating for the 100th time that the current UK Government is "shambolic" and these negotiations by the PM are "desastrous".

[ati87]

Maybe they need to have a second referendum now that more of a % of the population has an idea what exactly leaving the EU means, and just how badly this could (likely, at this point) go. Seems like they are really setting themselves, and more importantly, the world economy up for trouble with their current path.

The first referendum was stupid, the second one will be worse because if ''stay'' doesn't get a strong majority of the votes then you only make the situation worse.

Snap elections and Labour needs to to be clear that they are pro EU.

If they did this they might win and the conservative idiots will huff and puff but highly unlikely that these cowards will dare to run on Brexit again. All of them jumped ship the moment they needed to step up.

[Khetagurov]

Snap elections and Labour needs to to be clear that they are pro EU.

Their dickhead leader is a hardcore Eurosceptic though, and has been for a long, long time. There are also a lot of Labour heartlands that are fairly strongly pro-leave due to economic reasons and evil foreigners taking their jobs, which is also absolutely the EU's fault, and absolutely in no way anything to do with the fact that our heavy industry, mining and manufacturing has been in decline for decades.

Makes it very hard for them to come out as the party of remain, and I doubt they will under Corbyn.

[ati87]

Their dickhead leader is a hardcore Eurosceptic though, and has been for a long, long time. There are also a lot of Labour heartlands that are fairly strongly pro-leave due to economic reasons and evil foreigners taking their jobs, which is also absolutely the EU's fault, and absolutely in no way anything to do with the fact that our heavy industry, mining and manufacturing has been in decline for decades.

Makes it very hard for them to come out as the party of remain, and I doubt they will under Corbyn.

Whatever Corbyn is. If he wants to win and become the PM he needs to run as a alternative to May. The last snap elections kind of proves my point. May lost because the people didn't like the direction she was going.

If Labour isn't smart enough to go down this route then some other loudmouth needs to step up.

[Khetagurov]

Whatever Corbyn is. If he wants to win and become the PM he needs to run as a alternative to May. The last snap elections kind of proves my point. May lost because the people didn't like the direction she was going.

If Labour isn't smart enough to go down this route then some other loudmouth needs to step up.

Well, this new "Independent Group" is attempting to. But I think it's too little and FAR too late to have any real effect on the outcome of Brexit.

[ati87]

Well, this new "Independent Group" is attempting to. But I think it's too little and FAR too late to have any real effect on the outcome of Brexit.

You would think so but May in her infinite wisdom is making this processes long and slow.

[Noradin]

The first referendum was stupid, the second one will be worse because if ''stay'' doesn't get a strong majority of the votes then you only make the situation worse.

The third you mean...

[Khetagurov]

You would think so but May in her infinite wisdom is making this processes long and slow.

Because she's angling for a "my deal or no deal" situation, in the hope that Parliament will have no choice but to vote for hers.

[ati87]

Because she's angling for a "my deal or no deal" situation, in the hope that Parliament will have no choice but to vote for hers.

Which a lama's ass could have predicted

[Acidbaron]

You would think so but May in her infinite wisdom is making this processes long and slow.

She can stretch this till about the 10 or so of May, if even till then. Assuming an extension is granted otherwise it won't even survive past April.

[Huehuecoyotl]

And since May has (currently anyway) completely ignored what he has suggested, how does Corbyn intend to prevent a no deal Brexit happening, outside of asking nicely?

Can you explain how, when the Tories and DUP represent a majority in the HoC, Corbyn is supposed to stop them doing whatever the fuck they want? People keep saying he's driving us to a no-deal Brexit, and that he's doing the wrong thing to prevent it, but the fact is the only way he can stop it is with the assistance of at least a few of the Tories. And as we've seen from the pro Europe wing of the Tory party, they are happy to talk a big game but when it comes down to any meaningful vote they move back to being in lockstep with the rest of their party.

What magic is he supposed to do to overturn the majority that exists and steer this whole process? How would YOU handle it if you were in charge of Labour?

[LeGin Tufnel]

In fairness, I think Huehuecoytol has a point. But what he doesn't say is that it suits Corbyn down to the ground. He gets to leave and leave with his party intact.

Oh, wait.

Momentum bullies seem to be doing a good job on Twitter atm threatening the TIG 7 with fates worse than death.

Maybe he could ask them instead to focus on: Ian Austin, Sir Kevin Barron, Jim Fitzpatrick, Roger Godsiff, Kate Hoey, John Mann, Graham Stringer, Ronnie Campbell, Rosie Cooper, Caroline Flint, Stephen Hepburn, Dennis Skinner, Laura Smith, Gareth Snell, Tracy Brabin, Judith Cummins, Gloria De Piero, Yvonne Fovargue, Mike Kane, Emma Lewell-Buck, Jim McMahon, Melanie Onn, Ruth Smeeth, John Spellar and Stephen Twigg.

All of whom voted against, or abstained from voting on, the Cooper amendment.

But, broadly, I've come round to the poster's thinking: only the herbivore remainer Tories can save us now.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I may sound condescending, but... I'll re-iterate: ALL TREATIES CEASE TO APPLY. When we said people will be shocked to find out just how far the EU streamed into our daily lives, we weren't overstating it. Everything that the nations conveniently let the EU handle, because it makes sense... all of it will go bye-bye. So pretty much everything that in even the tiniest bit concerns the intra-state relations of the EU member states... whatever that may be, is probably going to be affected.

Yeah I meant that people won't realize how many "quality of life" things, no matter how tiny, will be lost when Britain leaves.

[Huehuecoyotl]

In fairness, I think Huehuecoytol has a point. But what he doesn't say is that it suits Corbyn down to the ground. He gets to leave and leave with his party intact.

Oh, wait.

Momentum bullies seem to be doing a good job on Twitter atm threatening the TIG 7 with fates worse than death.

Maybe he could ask them instead to focus on: Ian Austin, Sir Kevin Barron, Jim Fitzpatrick, Roger Godsiff, Kate Hoey, John Mann, Graham Stringer, Ronnie Campbell, Rosie Cooper, Caroline Flint, Stephen Hepburn, Dennis Skinner, Laura Smith, Gareth Snell, Tracy Brabin, Judith Cummins, Gloria De Piero, Yvonne Fovargue, Mike Kane, Emma Lewell-Buck, Jim McMahon, Melanie Onn, Ruth Smeeth, John Spellar and Stephen Twigg.

All of whom voted against, or abstained from voting on, the Cooper amendment.

But, broadly, I've come round to the poster's thinking: only the herbivore remainer Tories can save us now.

I'm not defending the Labour approach completely, by the way. I abhor the fact that both main parties are basing decisions on what is best for their parties first, with the country being a distant second. With both of them manoeuvring to try and ensure that blame for whatever shit outcome we get falls on the other group. It's a side-effect of FPTP and a 2 party zero-sum game approach to politics, and it's no way for what is supposed to be a grown up democracy to work.

If we end up with a soft Brexit, splits in both parties and a move to some form of proportional representation out of this in the near future, I am starting to think that will actually be a decent outcome.

[Dizzeeyooo]

How would YOU handle it if you were in charge of Labour?

Make a personal statement immediately about where the Labour party actually stands on resolving Brexit if they are unable to force a general election before it happens. Are they going to fight for a people's vote in that situation (as they agreed to do at their conference) or is the view actually that allowing a no deal Brexit to happen is preferable to a people's vote.

Be decent and clear about what the fucking position actually is, so that people who recognize what a no deal Brexit will do to this country can clearly see if the Labour party represents them or not, and accept the outcome of that. Stop having Starmer and others making statements in one direction to try and keep the support of remainers, rowing back on everything they say immediately after they say it, while at the same time allowing lunatics like Hoey to say the things that they say.

Obviously all of the above would be helpful for the country, but absolutely terrible for the current Labour party - thankfully now a 3rd option is growing for MPs who think politics is about more then pandering to the far left or far right

I'm not defending the Labour approach completely, by the way. I abhor the fact that both main parties are basing decisions on what is best for their parties first, with the country being a distant second. With both of them manoeuvring to try and ensure that blame for whatever shit outcome we get falls on the other group. It's a side-effect of FPTP and a 2 party zero-sum game approach to politics, and it's no way for what is supposed to be a grown up democracy to work.

If we end up with a soft Brexit, splits in both parties and a move to some form of proportional representation out of this in the near future, I am starting to think that will actually be a decent outcome.

It will absolutely be a decent outcome compared to how things look now generally.

[ranzino]

Yeah I meant that people won't realize how many "quality of life" things, no matter how tiny, will be lost when Britain leaves.

well, welll....
Britons may need £52 visa to visit mainland Europe after Brexit

the wonders of Freedom of Movement vs. blue passports UK not even eligible for ETIAS is a new down, if it comes to that.

[Edge-]

So...MP's leaving both parties in disgust. The government is stockpiling. Companies are stockpiling. People are stockpiling.

Man, David Cameron sure has a fantastic political legacy.

[Slant]

So...MP's leaving both parties in disgust. The government is stockpiling. Companies are stockpiling. People are stockpiling.

Man, David Cameron sure has a fantastic political legacy.

Oh, he's yesterday's news. But people will always remember the PM that dragged the UK kicking and screaming out of the biggest and most successful peace project of the planet only to tank its economy on purpose and jeopardize livelihoods of innocent citizens.