The Brexit aftermath thread

[Fuiking]

I think the US sees the EU as a sort of nursing home for its elderly relatives - one if the nice ones where residents are encouraged to rely on one another and have the chance to be productive. It must be alarming seeing the UK decide to go live in the shed.

Shed? more in a tent outside of the fence.

[Dhrizzle]

(Maybe alternative is someone sneak into the palace and remind Elizabeth that technically she has powers that could be used in an emergancy that never really were got rid of in law /s)

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/polit...20190313183515

- - - Updated - - -

Corbyn's idea seems to be staying in the EU but giving up most of the benefits that we currently enjoy, not only would this be a bad idea, it would not satisfy the ref. result and it would split the Tory party (which I don't doubt Corbyn is well aware of). Even if she could tell the ERG where go calling another GE would likely end up, once again, in a hung parliament and therefore would resolve nothing.

Of course it would satisfy the referendum results, it was a simple Leave/Remain question. Even the BINO of EEA membership would satisfy that result, just CU membership definitely so.

[Mighty Tim]

I think the US sees the EU as a sort of nursing home for its elderly relatives - one if the nice ones where residents are encouraged to rely on one another and have the chance to be productive. It must be alarming seeing the UK decide to go live in the shed.

The US doesn't think of the EU at all till it's on fire from another terrorist attack. You are highly overvaluing the eus place in the world your not China.

[Dhrizzle]

The US doesn't think of the EU at all till it's on fire from another terrorist attack. You are highly overvaluing the eus place in the world your not China.

The US sees China as competition to be top of the food chain, it sees the EU as an ally to keep itself on top. What the US wants is an EU that is economically prosperous and militarily capable, though not to the extent it can project power on its level.

[Mighty Tim]

The US sees China as competition to be top of the food chain, it sees the EU as an ally to keep itself on top. What the US wants is an EU that is economically prosperous and militarily capable, though not to the extent it can project power on its level.

I personally think you are massively inflating the importance of the EU on the world stage but I don't think it is something we can really prove one way or the other... settle for shades of gray?

[Slant]

To be honest I am not a fan of holding a second referendum but I am increasingly thinking that it is the only way forward.

Why?

/10char

- - - Updated - - -

But alas, here we are, soon at the crossroads where we can finally bid this idiocy farewell.
I genuinely hope for a hard brexit as I can't stand their ignorance anymore. The EU will most likely not give them an extension. You people have to remember while they might not want to be heartless demons, they also need to stand firm and show that there are consequences to leaving the EU.

There are consequences to everything in life. I suggest you avoid phrasing it like that, because simple minded people will read that as "there are punishments to leaving the EU."

The truth is, leaving the EU has consequences just like staying in the EU has consequences. Just a sequence of events happening as a result. And that's what you mean. Just to clarify for the paranoid conspiracy theorists out there. This is not your playground, looneys...

[Slant]

I am baffled as to how we go forward from here.

I think at this point in time no-deal is well and truly out of our hands and there is a very real risk that that is where we will end up simply because the EU have ran out of patience with us.

No shit, Sherlock. This is only what we've told you for 2 years now. Thanks for joining the conversation. This is the default outcome that the UK invoked. And then the UK blocked every attempt to replace this default mechanism with a constructive alternative. Do you see now why everyone talks about the UK shooting itself in the foot?

[Shalcker]

It's a market of 500 million people that trades more than 700 billion with the US. As an aggregate it is the largest trading partner of the US while maintaining a far more even balance of trade than they do with China.

700 billions out of which whooping 230 billions is UK alone...

Without them entire EU-US will have just 470 billion trade to UK-US 230 billion trade.

[Slant]

Cause it is divisive? Judging by polls, very few people have actually changed their minds about Brexit. The reason for the shift is mostly:
a) Death and new entries to the electorate
b) More Remainers abstained than Leavers

At large, society has not changed stance. They are still split roughly in the middle.

Bzzzzt. Wrong answer. You don't start a vote on something because it is or isn't divisive. I wonder if anyone can come up with the legit response to why a new referendum is needed. My money is on nope.

[Shalcker]

You mean 110 billion. It's ok, numbers are hard when your blood sugar is low from lack of turnips.

Sorry, you need to check your own numbers.

https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/e...united-kingdom
U.S. goods and services trade with United Kingdom totaled an estimated $231.9 billion in 2017. Exports were $123.0 billion; imports were $108.9 billion. The U.S. goods and services trade surplus with United Kingdom was $14.2 billion in 2017.

Perhaps you meant something different by "trade"? Because 700 billions doesn't seem to match any EU number i checked.

[Pannonian]

Sorry, you need to check your own numbers.

https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/e...united-kingdom
U.S. goods and services trade with United Kingdom totaled an estimated $231.9 billion in 2017. Exports were $123.0 billion; imports were $108.9 billion. The U.S. goods and services trade surplus with United Kingdom was $14.2 billion in 2017.

Perhaps you meant something different by "trade"? Because 700 billions doesn't seem to match any EU number i checked.

But then we should also take the numbers from your link, which isn't 700 billions, but 1.1 trillions. 230 billions out of 1.1 trillions is still a lot, but there is also a lot remaining.

Edit: probably he talked about "Goods" exclusive, which is 100 billion for UK and 600 for EU. Your numbers are goods AND services.

[Northern Goblin]

I don't know, a lot of people on parliament seemed willing to entertain it.

What I am seeing from Parliament they don't really give a fuck if it's broken? Fighting the "backstop" tooth and nails, the very thing that guarantees the Good Friday Agreement. But also not coming up with specific alternatives to it.

Granted there are a select few MPs who don't actually give a damn about Brexit itself, but are using this to further their own political profile and gains of power.

They're the kind of sociopaths willing to gamble anything, even the return of the IRA, to get themselves and their friends, both within and outside Westminster, in number 10.

The majority of MPs know it's not acceptable, and thus will rule out no deal. It's a bargaining chip in negotiations that the EU knows May would never actually utilise, yet one she seems to want to cling to for reasons no one can really explain.

Any MP that truly wants a no deal Brexit is putting their own gains over the safety and security of the United Kingdom.

- - - Updated - - -

Bzzzzt. Wrong answer. You don't start a vote on something because it is or isn't divisive. I wonder if anyone can come up with the legit response to why a new referendum is needed. My money is on nope.

Because the Government is unable to reach a general consensus, mostly because this time has been spent on party and inter-party politics.

The only consensus that is going to happen is going back to the people, who aren't bound by party politics and specialist interests to vote how they wish.

There are other reasons to justify a second referendum, but that is the main point. The Government, and Parliament as a whole is unable to pass legislature, and another General Election is likely to return to this same hung parliament.

[Veggie50]

Bzzzzt. Wrong answer. You don't start a vote on something because it is or isn't divisive. I wonder if anyone can come up with the legit response to why a new referendum is needed. My money is on nope.

Because petrified politicians wanna say they have a mandate directly from the people to do something wildly impopular!

[dribbles]

Granted there are a select few MPs who don't actually give a damn about Brexit itself, but are using this to further their own political profile and gains of power.

They're the kind of sociopaths willing to gamble anything, even the return of the IRA, to get themselves and their friends, both within and outside Westminster, in number 10.

The majority of MPs know it's not acceptable, and thus will rule out no deal. It's a bargaining chip in negotiations that the EU knows May would never actually utilise, yet one she seems to want to cling to for reasons no one can really explain.

Any MP that truly wants a no deal Brexit is putting their own gains over the safety and security of the United Kingdom.

- - - Updated - - -



Because the Government is unable to reach a general consensus, mostly because this time has been spent on party and inter-party politics.

The only consensus that is going to happen is going back to the people, who aren't bound by party politics and specialist interests to vote how they wish.

There are other reasons to justify a second referendum, but that is the main point. The Government, and Parliament as a whole is unable to pass legislature, and another General Election is likely to return to this same hung parliament.

Excluding Brexit at what point would you consider the GFA dead? Perhaps when there is no effective devolved government in NI with Stormont suspended for years? The IRA action in London and Glasgow a week ago? None of those enough? Would it need another bloody sunday?

Or is the GFA being used just as a convenient EU obstacle to frustrate Brexit by the remainers and EUfanatics?

Perhaps if there is an extension we will find out if the GFA is truly still in place and if not the problem of it holding up brexit goes away. What will the remainers and eurofanatics come up with then...

[Slant]

Wait, I am confused, are you asking WHY the UK should have a new referendum or why Pann was not a fan of one (there were two statements in the sentence you quoted so asking why needs a qualifier on which sentence you'd want elaborated).

To put it blunt... asking for a referendum just go get the result you want, which is what Pann is implying, is undemocratic.

The valid reason to ask for another vote is a) enough stuff has happened/come to light to warrant another vote so people can update their informed decision, b) enough time has passed so that we can assume opinions may naturally have changed and/or we need an update on the demographic opinion.

Now, I think we have enough conditions to ask for a second referendum, but I don't like how Pann phrases it. It's part of why I have so little respect for British politics. They all think like that. How is "shit going badly" a justification for the referendum in itself? Because it isn't. It's called consequences.

- - - Updated - - -

Because the Government is unable to reach a general consensus, mostly because this time has been spent on party and inter-party politics.

The only consensus that is going to happen is going back to the people, who aren't bound by party politics and specialist interests to vote how they wish.

There are other reasons to justify a second referendum, but that is the main point. The Government, and Parliament as a whole is unable to pass legislature, and another General Election is likely to return to this same hung parliament.

I don't think that's a valid reason to call for another referendum. You can't turn to laymen to fix shit that professionals can't sort out. A referendum is really not there to do the UK Gouvernments job for them. If you ask me, political incompetence is not a valid reason. It's a consequence. It will be called the beginning of accountability of politics, maybe. Hopefully.

- - - Updated - - -

Because petrified politicians wanna say they have a mandate directly from the people to do something wildly impopular!

I know they would like to, but honestly, I would smash this back at them with a resounding "Errr, wrong reason. The people are not there to do your job for you".

[Skroe]

The US doesn't think of the EU at all till it's on fire from another terrorist attack. You are highly overvaluing the eus place in the world your not China.

The EU is the US's principle partner in most major global endevours. Not to mention the US's most important foreign interests up to this point (for now) are in Europe. That is shifting to Asia-Pacific, but that only means the US will be even more reliant on the EU to cover the European flank.

The EU is vitally important to the US's global agenda. A United States and European Union, often times side by side with Japan and others, has enough "controlling share" in essentially every single international venue, to carry the majority.

[Pann]

Bercow has refused the amendment to rule out a 2nd ref. The ERG are not happy bunnies; Bernard Jenkin openly accuses Bercow of pro-Remain bias: “What are we to conclude from your own views on these matters?”

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/stat...66819671494657

[Slant]

Bercow has refused the amendment to rule out a 2nd ref. The ERG are not happy bunnies.

Just saw that. Was funny how he put them down, politely, but firmly.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Just saw that. Was funny how he put them down, politely, but firmly.

Ah yes, the person who was instrumental in allowing the first referendum to happen is secretly biased against anything to do with the UK leaving the EU.

Excellent ERG logic right there

[Dizzeeyooo]

So only the amendment for a ref will come to a vote today? Let's hope we can move on after tonight (and collectible laugh at dribbs)

It won't pass today, so don't get too excited.

Labour are not backing it (lolololol) and "the people's vote campaign" are choosing not to back it either (as they think the time is not yet right) - both idiotic decisions as there is basically no time left, but anyway.